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Hi david,
Scripture speaks at length of Sheol and Jesus gave us a view of Hades in Lk 16.
Are these now relegated to the realm of allegory by yourself?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2008,18:43) Hi david,
Is everyone saved when they die?
Does no soul finish in the lake of fire?
Nick,Can you really hold to the concept of God raising some people up again to judge them and then kill them again? Why not just leave them dead and let it be? Is it so they can “suffer” one more time and so God can say “I told you so”?
Sure, why not? Many have done so. In fact, most of the books in the NT were revised anyway.
Seriously, your view of God is that He has many human characteristics because that is how the bible portrays Him. You can accept this of Him, me I'd rather believe He doesn't have baser human instincts. Else He is man and not God.
Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,12:18) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2008,18:43) Hi david,
Is everyone saved when they die?
Does no soul finish in the lake of fire?
Nick,Can you really hold to the concept of God raising some people up again to judge them and then kill them again? Why not just leave them dead and let it be? Is it so they can “suffer” one more time and so God can say “I told you so”?
Hi KJ:Quote 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. Every man will be judged according to his works and must give an account to God for the life they lived in this body.
I believe much the same way, except I don't believe that God will raise up some only to kill them again. Rather, once they die, they stay that way. This life is it for them. Anyone who thinks God will raise people up only to pronounce them guilty and cast them in a lake of fire sees God as a cruel vengeful dictator who relishes torment.
Hi KJ,
So one death.
Out with Rev 20 then?
Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second deathQuote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2008,20:07) Hi KJ,
So one death.
Out with Rev 20 then?
Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death
Yes out with Revelation. The view of God in that book is rather dicey.Hi KJ,
One down.
Many more you find distasteful?
What shall we call your version of the truth-KJ's folly?Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,13:02) I believe much the same way, except I don't believe that God will raise up some only to kill them again. Rather, once they die, they stay that way. This life is it for them. Anyone who thinks God will raise people up only to pronounce them guilty and cast them in a lake of fire sees God as a cruel vengeful dictator who relishes torment.
Hi KJ:In the NT, if they have died a natural death, that is God did not kill them, then they have not been judged.
If you break the law in society, then you are punished according to the crime committed.
If we have broken God's Law, we will be judged according to the crime or crimes committed.
For a Christian, the verdict is not guilty.
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 18 2008,20:50) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,13:02) I believe much the same way, except I don't believe that God will raise up some only to kill them again. Rather, once they die, they stay that way. This life is it for them. Anyone who thinks God will raise people up only to pronounce them guilty and cast them in a lake of fire sees God as a cruel vengeful dictator who relishes torment.
Hi KJ:In the NT, if they have died a natural death, that is God did not kill them, then they have not been judged.
If you break the law in society, then you are punished according to the crime committed.
If we have broken God's Law, we will be judged according to the crime or crimes committed.
For a Christian, the verdict is not guilty.
Shake off your theology for a minute. Now think, does that sound remotely equitable to you? It gives the average Christian the leeway to behave as he wishes because his sins are covered. I would much rather not think of Jesus covering all and then going on to live as I wish as opposed to looking at the needs of my fellow man and concerning myself with the betterment of those around me.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2008,20:31) Hi KJ,
One down.
Many more you find distasteful?
What shall we call your version of the truth-KJ's folly?
No we shall call it “Reality 101”. No room for superstitious elitism.Hi KJ,
So faith in the sacred scriptures is superstition?
Sounds like another shipwreck1tim1
18This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight,19keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith.
Hi 94,
You say
“In the NT, if they have died a natural death, that is God did not kill them, then they have not been judged.”Where does this come from?
If you die then all is forgiven??Sounds like the JW nonsense
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2008,21:01) Hi KJ,
So faith in the sacred scriptures is superstition?
Sounds like another shipwreck1tim1
18This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight,19keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith.
In your rather narrow-minded view perhaps. But God is God of all, and does not have such a narrow mind. If He did, then He made a mistake by giving us intelligence.Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,13:54) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 18 2008,20:50) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,13:02) I believe much the same way, except I don't believe that God will raise up some only to kill them again. Rather, once they die, they stay that way. This life is it for them. Anyone who thinks God will raise people up only to pronounce them guilty and cast them in a lake of fire sees God as a cruel vengeful dictator who relishes torment.
Hi KJ:In the NT, if they have died a natural death, that is God did not kill them, then they have not been judged.
If you break the law in society, then you are punished according to the crime committed.
If we have broken God's Law, we will be judged according to the crime or crimes committed.
For a Christian, the verdict is not guilty.
Shake off your theology for a minute. Now think, does that sound remotely equitable to you? It gives the average Christian the leeway to behave as he wishes because his sins are covered. I would much rather not think of Jesus covering all and then going on to live as I wish as opposed to looking at the needs of my fellow man and concerning myself with the betterment of those around me.
Hi Kj:What are you calling “an average Christian”.
The following verse describes a Christian:
Quote 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born F2 of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. A Christian is someone who has been born again and who is stiving to obey the commandments that have come to humanity from God through Jesus. When a Christian commits sin, he is to repent and ask for forgiveness, and then continue to strive to obey. In other words, Christians do make mistakes, but when they do they have to repent in order to be forgiven.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2008,21:02) Hi 94,
You say
“In the NT, if they have died a natural death, that is God did not kill them, then they have not been judged.”Where does this come from?
If you die then all is forgiven??Sounds like the JW nonsense
Nick, your dogma is constricting. Do you sleep at least 3 hours each night?Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,14:09) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2008,21:01) Hi KJ,
So faith in the sacred scriptures is superstition?
Sounds like another shipwreck1tim1
18This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight,19keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith.
In your rather narrow-minded view perhaps. But God is God of all, and does not have such a narrow mind. If He did, then He made a mistake by giving us intelligence.
Hi KJ,
Do you think it is intelligent to refuse to follow Jesus?Quote (942767 @ Feb. 18 2008,21:11) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,13:54) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 18 2008,20:50) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,13:02) I believe much the same way, except I don't believe that God will raise up some only to kill them again. Rather, once they die, they stay that way. This life is it for them. Anyone who thinks God will raise people up only to pronounce them guilty and cast them in a lake of fire sees God as a cruel vengeful dictator who relishes torment.
Hi KJ:In the NT, if they have died a natural death, that is God did not kill them, then they have not been judged.
If you break the law in society, then you are punished according to the crime committed.
If we have broken God's Law, we will be judged according to the crime or crimes committed.
For a Christian, the verdict is not guilty.
Shake off your theology for a minute. Now think, does that sound remotely equitable to you? It gives the average Christian the leeway to behave as he wishes because his sins are covered. I would much rather not think of Jesus covering all and then going on to live as I wish as opposed to looking at the needs of my fellow man and concerning myself with the betterment of those around me.
Hi Kj:What are you calling “an average Christian”.
The following verse describes a Christian:
Quote 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born F2 of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. A Christian is someone who has been born again and who is stiving to obey the commandments that have come to humanity from God through Jesus. When a Christian commits sin, he is to repent and ask for forgiveness, and then continue to strive to obey. In other words, Christians do make mistakes, but when they do they have to repent in order to be forgiven.
Just curious, but how do you know when you have “sinned”? I want to know how YOU know, in your heart.
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