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Hi,
Some confuse the punishment of the lake of fire with salting.
We who are in Christ will not suffer the wrath of God.
But all will be salted with firey trials.Mark 9:49
For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:1 Corinthians 3:13
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.1 Corinthians 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.1 Peter 1:7
That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 21 2008,07:11) Hi,
Some confuse the punishment of the lake of fire with salting.
We who are in Christ will not suffer the wrath of God.
But all will be salted with firey trials.Mark 9:49
For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:1 Corinthians 3:13
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.1 Corinthians 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.1 Peter 1:7
That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
NickThe context of of Mark 9:49 is the “fires of Gehenna” where their worm dieth not and if you have not cut of the offending member you will be cast into fire.
Quote Mark 9:44-50 (King James Version)
44Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
49For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
50Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.You are doing here what you accuse Gene of cutting separate) scripture out of context and pasting them together
The Matthew verse is John talking to the pharisees and saducees – not the repentant – the unrepentant
Quote 7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:The Corinthians verses in context also speak of the destruction of those who defile the temple of God
Quote 1 Corinthians 3:11-18 (King James Version)
11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
18Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.To me there is a theme of purification and trial and fire, the destruction of all evil, abomination, unrighteousness and the salvation and purification obtained of a remnant of each person afterwards.
I agree that believers who purify themselves by following the Holy Spirit will be saved from wrath but for those that receive wrath a remnant will be saved after the destruction of the fleshly nature.
further on from the Peter verse is this
Quote 1 Peter 1:22-25 (King James Version)
22Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.Hi mk,
Salt is good.
Salting with fire is good contrasted with the hopeless of gehenna.Acts 14:22
strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying, ” Through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.”Hi mk,
Was the one coming after John only going to the Pharisees and Sadducees.Baptism with the Spirit is now only promised to the followers of Jesus.[lk24]
Becoming a temple for God is only appointed to cleansed vessels[2Tim2]
Nick
He was speaking to the pharisees and saducees about what was going to happen – he was telling them that they needed to repent and to bring forth good fruit
I think there is a personal message and a national message here
nationally he was saying the if they didn't repent the axe was ready to cut down the tree – 70AD there would be national judgement
also on a personal level – Jesus was coming to purge his threshing floor the husks = flesh of the wheat is to be destroyed (repentance) and the grain = spirit is to be gathered and stored.
Hi mk,
What do you mean by a remnant of each person?
Men are as grass and the flesh of men does not inherit salvation.Man is body soul and spirit[1Thess]
Salvation of our souls, alive in the Spirit is the aim of God.1 Peter 1:9
obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.Man is body, soul and spirit – show me clear scripture that says spirit is to be destroyed – I see lots of scripture that says flesh and blood does not inherit the kingdom of God and is to be destroyed, but none that says spirit is to be destroyed.
Hi MK,
No such scripture exists.
But the spirit of man is said to leave a man at death and return to God.Ecc 12
7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 21 2008,08:44) Nick He was speaking to the pharisees and saducees about what was going to happen – he was telling them that they needed to repent and to bring forth good fruit
I think there is a personal message and a national message here
nationally he was saying the if they didn't repent the axe was ready to cut down the tree – 70AD there would be national judgement
also on a personal level – Jesus was coming to purge his threshing floor the husks = flesh of the wheat is to be destroyed (repentance) and the grain = spirit is to be gathered and stored.
Hi mk,
They were only able to produce more vipers.Their vessels would have been washed clean but they had shunned the baptism of John.
Lk7
28For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.29And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
30But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.
The fruit of the Spirit can only be produced from those in whom the Spirit lived.
That is the only useful fruit that can be produced from man.
Gal5
18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
HI,
Strangely some apply this to the fire for the goats.1 Peter 4:18
18And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
Nick……..they will appear in a more intense Judgment and AS fire burns the Gross out from Metals so will intense Judgment like wise in man. All thing acceptable to God have to go through (FIRE) Intense Judgments in order to be purified by it. Nick learn to put the scriptures together and get the overview. You can not fine a Scripture that shows a single human being cast into a literal fire and Burned up and parish for an eternity. If you can post it.
love and peace…………………gene
GB,
This seems to your own idea.
Is it wise to make up our own teachings?The goats are for the fire-mt 25
Nick………Nick when Jesus comes (NO) one will be cast into any (literal fire) and burned up for ever. A sheep or a Goat. Jesus was talking about separating the (NATIONS) (AS) a Man Separates the Sheep from the GOATS. And you go from that to Jesus throwing People into a literal lakes of Fire. If you will notice Jesus was talking to the nations on his the one side that were goats, not individuals. but nations and their humanitarian care for others. Not individuals in those nations but the nation as a whole were being judged.
You must try to stop taking things out of context Nick to advance you theologies.
love and peace…………………….gene
I see GB,
We are able to allegorise parts of MT 25 as it suits so that the nations are real and are not people but the judgements are not real but imaginary.I do not think we have these rights as the words are sacred. You will pass but they will not.
Good day Everybody. I'm new here, so please forgive any user deficiencies for a little while. I am a non-denominational christian who does not hold the doctrine of the trinity.
Now, I thought I might say something about the fire and the salt.
Salt is both a flavour enhancer and presevative, the second factor being especially pertinent at and before the Lord's time in the flesh. Fire is a tester of the quality of certain things (e.g. gold) and, alternatively, a means of destroying that which is contaminated (as in the great fire of London killing off the plague). Accordingly, when attempting to understand the meaning of a statement involving salt or fire in scripture, I believe you must view what is being said in terms of these factors.
For example, our Lord told The Apostles that they were the salt of the earth, but if they lost their saltiness then they would be good for nothing but road dust, which must be shaken off or washed from the feet. Applying the flavour enhancer test here does not fit, therefore it must have something to do with preservation.
And indeed it was. He was telling them that they were the ones who would be sent out to spread the Gospel assisted by the Holy Spirit within them in order that the faithful would hear, believe and be preserved to God.
In another place, our Lord also told them to “have salt in themselves”. Here, the context is not that they are salt, but that they are to “season” themselves with salt. Thus it was not to do with preservation (of themselves and others), but rather with enhancing something. He then followed on with the direction to “have salt in yourselves and be at peace with one another”. It therefore follows that salt in this context has something to do with peace. Accordingly, if love is the source of peace, therefore having salt means having a loving and peaceful character, which is an attribute of simple Christian wisdom of course – an enhanced and pleasing odour to our God indeed.
You will recall that when The Holy Spirit first descended at Penticost, the brothers were arrayed with tongues of fire above their heads yet were not consumed. Accordingly it was, among other things, an event where their spirit was being tested by God through The Holy Spirit. It was to all intents and purposes a “trial” – and they all passed I think. Thus, references in scripture to fire where the individual(s) is not burned up refers to a testing of faith through endurence. Alternatively, references where the person or persons is/are destroyed by the fire is judgement from God and dedication to destruction.
I leave this for consideration
Same here Rabsheka, welcome and thanks for your post. Looking forward to hearing more from you.
Blessings, Jodi
Welcome to the website, may God help us to be united in our understanding of His Word. Good post.
Peace and Love Irene
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