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You know it would JUST be terrible for everyone to keep a “whole” day to your Father. Why?
He gave you His Son just so He could get to know you!
So what do people do they look for any and every excuse so they don't have to spend time with their Father “for a day”.
I had one person tell me their just isn't enough time!
So what's your excuse?
Quote (kenrch @ Sep. 19 2007,05:30) Again and again LOVE= Keeping His Commandments.
This is very profound.I believe this is where the confusion lies. We are not talking about the 10 Commandments here, we are talking about the 2 the Jesus said everything else hangs on. And those two are to love God, and to love others.
So, I agree that:
Love=keeping his Commandments. In fact, you can't do one without the other, and visa-versa.One literally equals the other.
Where in the NT are we taught to keep the “10” Commandments? Where are they listed for the Gentiles? Where are they taught for the Gentiles sake? Did Jesus ever give a review of the “10” Commandments for adherence sake/for the Gentiles sake? I don't think I've read that anywhere!
You say that the “10” Commandments have not been done away with, and I would say that I beg to differ! Paul tells us that the law (notice he didn't specify whether it was the Mosaic or the 10 Commandments) was a shadow of Christ; he also when on to teach that there were now “2” Commandments that were needed: Love God, love people. Everything hangs on those “2” Commandments. And if we love God, we'll obey them.
God took care of the rest by saying he wrote his laws on our hearts. I know not to kill. It's in my heart. But to love my brother…..well, I need a command to do that because I forget and because sometimes it's really, really, really hard to do!
I'm out – have a good day all,
MandyQuote (Not3in1 @ Sep. 19 2007,05:44) Quote (kenrch @ Sep. 19 2007,05:30) Again and again LOVE= Keeping His Commandments.
This is very profound.I believe this is where the confusion lies. We are not talking about the 10 Commandments here, we are talking about the 2 the Jesus said everything else hangs on. And those two are to love God, and to love others.
So, I agree that:
Love=keeping his Commandments. In fact, you can't do one without the other, and visa-versa.One literally equals the other.
Where in the NT are we taught to keep the “10” Commandments? Where are they listed for the Gentiles? Where are they taught for the Gentiles sake? Did Jesus ever give a review of the “10” Commandments for adherence sake/for the Gentiles sake? I don't think I've read that anywhere!
You say that the “10” Commandments have not been done away with, and I would say that I beg to differ! Paul tells us that the law (notice he didn't specify whether it was the Mosaic or the 10 Commandments) was a shadow of Christ; he also when on to teach that there were now “2” Commandments that were needed: Love God, love people. Everything hangs on those “2” Commandments. And if we love God, we'll obey them.
God took care of the rest by saying he wrote his laws on our hearts. I know not to kill. It's in my heart. But to love my brother…..well, I need a command to do that because I forget and because sometimes it's really, really, really hard to do!
I'm out – have a good day all,
Mandy
1. 1Corinthians 10:14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.
See also 1 Cor 6:9, Acts 17:16&23,
Romans 2:22&23, 1John 5:212. Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought
not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone,
graven by art and man's device. See also 1 Cor 12:23. James 5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by
heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath…
lest ye fall into condemnation.4. Luke 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and
rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
Hebrews 4 4&9 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh [day] on this
wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
There remaineth therefore a (keeping of a sabbath-see margin) rest
to the people of God.
Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three
sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Acts 13:42&44 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the
Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the
next sabbath. And the next sabbath day came almost the
whole city together to hear the word of God.
Isaiha 66:22-23 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will
make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your
seed and your name remain.
And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to
another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to
worship before me, saith the LORD.
See also Acts 16:135. Ephesians 6:1-2 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. Honour
thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;
See also Romans 1:306. James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill.
Romans 13:9 Thou shalt not kill,.
See also Romans1:297. 1 Thessalonians 4:3 For this is the will of God, [even] your sanctification, that ye
should abstain from fornication:
James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill.
See also 1Cor 6:9, Romans 2:22, Romans 1:29, Romans 13:98. Romans 13:9 Thou shalt not steal.
1 Thessalonians 4:6 That no [man] go beyond and defraud his brother in [any] matter:
See also 1Cor 6:109. Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another
Romans 13:9 Thou shalt not bear false witness10. Romans 13:9 Thou shalt not covet;
See also 1 Cor 6:10, Romans 1:29Well here we go again? The Commandments are only for Jews.
OK but the Sabbath was made for man.There are only TWO commandments. Really then what are the “other laws that hang on those two”?
Believe on Jesus! Really!
Love one another! Really!So if I believe in Jesus then I can keep any day I like! Really?
REALLY!
Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.When you keep the “first and greatest commandment” then this is what you will want to do.
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Exo 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.The second “greatest” commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.If you love your neighbor as yourself then you will keep these commandments.
Exo 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Exo 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exo 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exo 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.How can you love the Lord your God and NOT want to please HIM?
Mat 7:20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the ki
ngdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me,you workers of lawlessness.'Verse 21 we see that those who do the will of the Father.
Verse 23 we see those who “don't” do the will of the Father.
Those who do not do the will of the Father are “workers of lawlessness”.
You see those TWO COMMANDMENTS contain the TEN COMMANDMENTS. YOu cannot keep the TWO without keeping the “TEN”.
It's just that simple
Peace,
Ken
First to Mrs.
If you are against the Scripture whether it be of the formaer or the latter, it says you are against Messiah, this is what it means to be “anti-Messiah”Y'shua Messiah taught from the Torah as did His deciples, they didn't create anything new about the Torah (law).
For Jodi,
To say you seek the “image” if God is not a good thing.The Word image is imagination. The beast is an imagined form of worship. This is why I said what I did.
Elohim is not an “image”. Y'shua came as a prophet and was filled with the Spirit of Elohim.
Finally I'd like to say woe to the scribes and Pharisees for causing you who should be happy to follow His commands, to cause you to think His laws are changes or done away with.
Believe the Spirit of truth, but first you must step out in faith to follow His commands, showing Him that you are His people. By ignoring His commands, even saying you come to know Messiah by another Way is just that, another way, and it is not His, so you are not His.
The gentiles in the early assembly went to the Jewish temple to recieve the necessary teaching in order to grow in their faith, and they came on the 7th day and the Feast day Sabbaths, to hear His Word and understand it.
The only Sun-day worship or any other day was to other gods, was , is, and always will be that way and no matter how loud you cry, Elohim will not change for you or for anyone else. If He did it would make Him wishy washy, and non-dependable, and also confusing. He never changes, He only gave us a better means to draw near to Himself, and this is the Spirit. The Torah never changed. period.
Not3,
Your “therory” isn't working is it, for if it were true, then you would “remember” to keep the Sabbath days, for they were Se-apart at creation and have always been there for us.Like Jodi said, the Torah is for instruction. YHWH gave it to His people, all of it. If you do not look fot the truth in the Torah, you do not seek Him, because He is there.
LaurelHi all, maybe this has been mentioned in this thread, but do we see anyone from Adam to pre-Moses observing any form of Sabbath? How about Abraham? The Gentiles are a promise to him, not Moses.
The reason I ask is that if the Sabbath is truly spiritual, why does the OT not speak of anyone before the childen of Israel under Moses being told to observe it?
On another note, when Yeshua taught, he spoke to Jews. The people he spoke with already knew at least the 10 commandments, so he would not have to “summarize” them.
Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 19 2007,09:19) The people he spoke with already knew at least the 10 commandments, so he would not have to “summarize” them.
Ah, yes, good point! Thanks for that KJ.Did Paul ever summarize them?
Quote (Laurel @ Sep. 19 2007,06:57) Not3,
Your “therory” isn't working is it, for if it were true, then you would “remember” to keep the Sabbath days, for they were Se-apart at creation and have always been there for us.Like Jodi said, the Torah is for instruction. YHWH gave it to His people, all of it. If you do not look fot the truth in the Torah, you do not seek Him, because He is there.
LaurelWho said I didn't look for truth in the Torah?
Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 19 2007,09:19) Hi all, maybe this has been mentioned in this thread, but do we see anyone from Adam to pre-Moses observing any form of Sabbath? How about Abraham? The Gentiles are a promise to him, not Moses. The reason I ask is that if the Sabbath is truly spiritual, why does the OT not speak of anyone before the childen of Israel under Moses being told to observe it?
On another note, when Yeshua taught, he spoke to Jews. The people he spoke with already knew at least the 10 commandments, so he would not have to “summarize” them.
God created blessed and kept the Sabbath.Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
For some that's not good enough. They must look elsewhere so as not to copy the Creator!
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
It is said that the Israelites lost God when in bondage to the Egyptians for 400 years.
Some have tried to say God wrote all the Law in stone.
Deu 5:1 And Moses summoned all Israel and said to them, “Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the rules that I speak in your hearing today, and you shall learn them and be careful to do them.
Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 Not with our fathers did the LORD make this covenant, but with us, who are all of us here alive today.
Deu 5:4 The LORD spoke with you face to face at the mountain, out of the midst of the fire,
Deu 5:5 while I stood between the LORD and you at that time, to declare to you the word of the LORD. For you were afraid because of the fire, and you did not go up into the mountain. He said:
Deu 5:6 “'I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
Deu 5:7 “'You shall have no other gods before me.
Deu 5:8 “'You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
Deu 5:9 You shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,
Deu 5:10 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Deu 5:11 “'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.
Deu 5:12 “'Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you.
Deu 5:13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Deu 5:14 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant, or your ox or your donkey or any of your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.
Deu 5:15 You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.
Deu 5:16 “'Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God commanded you, that your days may be long, and that it may go well with you in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.
Deu 5:17 “'You shall not murder.
Deu 5:18 “'And you shall not commit adultery.
Deu 5:19 “'And you shall not steal.
Deu 5:20 “'And you shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Deu 5:21 “'And you shall not covet your neighbor's wife. And you shall not desire your neighbor's house, his field, or his male servant, or his female servant, his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's.'
Deu 5:22 “These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly at the mountain out of the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and he **added no more**. And he wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.Deu 10:1 “At that time the LORD said to me, 'Cut for yourself two tablets of stone like the first, and come up to me on the mountain and make an ark of wood.
Deu 10:2 And I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets that you broke, and you shall put them in the ark.'
Deu 10:3 So I made an ark of acacia wood, and cut two tablets of stone like the first, and went up the mountain with the two tablets in my hand.
Deu 10:4 And he wrote on the tablets, in the same writing as before, the Ten Commandments that the LORD had spoken to you on the mountain out of the midst of the fire on the day of the assembly. And the LORD gave them to me.
Deu 10:5 Then I turned and came down from the mountain and put the tablets in the ark that I had made. And there they are, as the LORD commanded me.”Some have tried to say that the Sabbath are for Jews only?
Isa 56:6 “And the foreigners [Gentiles] who join themselves to the LORD, to minister to him, to love the name of the LORD, and to be his servants, everyone who keeps the Sabbath and does not profane it, and holds fast my covenant–Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
Act 13:46 And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.
Paul says he now is going to the gentiles to preach the gospel YET Paul still taught the Gentiles on the Sabbath.
Act 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks [Gentiles].
To spite all the scriptures that say keep God's Commandments. To spite that after Paul went to the Gentiles he “STILL” preached on the Sabbath.
People still look for a way to break the forth commandment.
They do anything! They try to say there are only “two” commandments. Yet the “Ten” are contained in those “two” commandments.What is it about the forth Commandment that people “hate”.
Is it that they will have to give up the flesh they are still hanging on too?
NO! Then why all the fuss? The Sabbath is by far the easiest commandment to keep and the commandment with all the blessings. So why?
From when we were babes we went to church on Sunday. The harlot (that's what the RCC IS) taught us that Sunday was the Sabbath. And so if we keep the real Sabbath our brain washed minds reject the truth. And to BOOT it's a Jewish day. Even though scripture calls us spiritual Jews that have been grafted into Israel, Rom. 11.
Still their are those who have not the least bit of trouble keeping pagan days but will fight to the end NOT to keep God's Sabbath.
I for “one” never had any problems with the Sabbath at all not only because of the “overwhelming” scriptures but because I knew that I was lied to before and I was right the Harlot was the Sunday Sabbath teacher.
As I began to teach the Sabbath verses “any day” I was as I am now “amazed
” at the people who choose to kept what is, according to scripture the Harlot's doctrine.It's either OR
You have not “YOUR” way! Only Satan or God's way.God's Sabbath is His forth commandment. The day HE CREATED.
The any day is Satan's lie just as FROM THE BEGINNING. YOU know better than GOD. YOU will be as God.All I can do is give the scripture and understanding which I believe I have done. The rest is up to YOU!
Peace and God bless,
Ken
Quote (Laurel @ Sep. 19 2007,04:05) Jodi,
This “image” you seek is to me the “image” of the beast. It looks to me that you have a seered consience, which is to say you have been given over to your own “imagination,” and are permanently scared.You and others here take bits of Scripture out of context and “twist” it to “fit” “your” own religious belief, while ignoring Scripture as a whole.
You trample the blood of my Savior, by trampling the Torah of our Father in heaven. If you really and truely loved Him, you would keep His commandments, which are the ones He kept. You do not even keep the first and second greatest commands, because to keep the first one means we love YHWH our Elohim and know He is our Elohim. We serve Him. How do we know that we love Him, we keep His commands and His commands are not grevious.
Mrs.
One needs to read and understand the promise YHWH gave to Israel before times, and see that it was given only Israel. I just gave some very credible Scripture to teach you what you are not understanding, laying it out plain for the whole world to see, and yet you don't even bother studying it because you are “anti-Scripture.”Lev 26:10 And ye shall eat old store, and bring forth the old because of the new.
Ecc 1:10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
Isa 3:5 And the people shall be oppressed, every one by another, and every one by his neighbour: the child shall behave himself proudly against the ancient, and the base against the honourable.
Isa 9:15 The ancient and honourable, He is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.
Mrs. You are anti-Scripture which means you are anti-messiah.
No wonder Ken gets so frustrated.Laurel, did you mean I am permanently scarred or that I am permanently scared. Either way your accusation that part of my spirit is permanently in a way against God, seems to show that you are indeed puffed up! You seem to be implying with your word use of permanence, that God cannot or will not change me. To say that I have permanently given myself to my own imagination is quite bold. When exactly did God tell you that I was a lost cause?
How can you say that the image I seek is from the beast? I seek to have my character mirror God's Spirit, which is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. (Galatians 5) How is that the image of the beast? For you to say, simply because I don't believe that the Sabbath is required, that I seek the image of the beast, is quite pathetic. Really, it's quite the OVER KILL!
You CANNOT get past the LETTER, and see what the PURPOSE was meant by it, and how it was fulfilled with Christ. I am not twisting scripture, I am reading them through my heart as God intended. You on the other hand seem to be reading them from a strictly anal perspective, lacking love in your understanding.
If there is one thing your anal attitude towards the sabbath seems to do is create hate inside you. This is EXACTLY WHY Paul says do not judge a person who esteems one day above another. There is no reason to get hot and bothered because someone does not worship God exactly like you do. Laurel are you ABOVE Paul? It sure looks as if you think you have the authority to set his words aside. Who are you to judge my relationship with YHWH and His Son? Who are you to judge how I spend my time with YHWH? Who are you to tell me its not good enough?
Once again to say that I have trampled the blood of OUR Saviour and to accuse me of not loving YHWH our Elohim or keeping the second Commandment, on the basis that I do not believe the sabbath is required, is really pathetic.
I am grafted in as an Israelite NOT because I keep the Torah Laurel, but because I have Faith like Abraham had faith. Lets recall that Abraham was not told to keep a Sabbath and yet he was found not only righteous in the eyes of YHWH, but also he received the beginning of the promise.
Galatians 3:6 Consider Abraham: “He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 7 Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. 8 The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”
Joh 3:18 – Those who believe in him are not condemned; but those who do not believe are condemned already, because they have not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
What God seeks from us is to follow His Two Great Commandments.
I believe that to show our love for God is fulfilled when we follow His commandment to believe in the name of His Son.
Yeshua-God with us and Messiah- annointed with the Holy Spirit
By believing in the name of His Son we recognize that it is God by His Spirit who made Jesus righteous and that we need His Spirit as well in order to be righteous. We understand that it is God's Spirit that will set us free from sin and give us peace and rest. What we saw God accomplished in Jesus and what we know He promises to accomplish in us, truly produces love by us towards God. How do we confirm to God that we are following the commandment to believe in the name of His Son? Does keeping the sabbath prove such things? I truly believe not! What God sees written in my heart EVERDAY shows God that I am keeping this commandment. We are faced with sinful desires everyday. Everyday I recognize I need God's Spirit working in me to keep me from sin. When I look to God asking for His Spirit to help me on a daily basis I am showing Him my need and love for Him. I am fulfilling the First Commandment!
As well, do I prove my love for my neighbor by keeping the Sabbath. Should I? Is that what the NT tells me? No, of course not. God knows that I am doing my best to keep His second Commandment by looking at my heart and seeing how I treat and think towards other people.
To say that I must keep the Sabbath in order to follow the Two Commandments is something I do not find in scripture.
God set aside a day of rest for the Israelites to serve a special purpose. It was not the DAY that was significant it was what the Israelites were to learn from that day that was significant. The day was to establish in the heart of the Israelites the same thing that God's work in Christ was to establish in the heart of all people , which was the First Commandment, to love God.
It is by the new commandment God gave — 'believe in the name of His Son' that fulfills the First Commandment. The Sabbath Commandment proved to lack in accomplishing the fruit of the First Commandment, where as the commandment to believe in the name of God's Son is so much greater. You see Laurel, it was not what the Israelites did or did not do on Saturday, it was how they felt towards God that was so important. To say it was about the DAY is to look at scripture in a shallow, superficial, petty, small minded light that lacks all substance.
Hebrews 7:19 (for the law made nothing perfect); there is, on the other hand, the introduction of a better hope, through which we approach God.
22 accordingly Jesus has also become the guarantee of a better covenant.
You can say I am twisting scripture all you want. The truth as I see it is, I am looking for SUBSTANCE, SUBSTANCE, SUBSTANCE!!
Salvation is not the Torah, Salvation is in the name of Yeshua our Messiah, and by believing in his name we fill the requirements of the First Commandment. Hebrews tells us that the Sabbath DID NOT ACCOMPLISH the requirement of the First Commandment
. You seem to believe Laurel that it takes the two together. If it takes the two together, then you seem to be believing that God's accomplishment in Jesus is lacking something and I believe that couldn't be further from the truth.I John 3: 22 and we receive from him whatever we ask, because we obey his commandments and do what pleases him.
23 And this is his commandment, that we should believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 All who obey his commandments abide in him, and he abides in them. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit that he has given us.Hebrews tells us that OT commandments were inadequate for bringing us to perfection, so clearly the commandments we are asked to obey in 1 John 3 are NOT those.
You see, it is believing in the name of Yeshua our Messiah that brings us into our acceptance by God. When our heart confesses this, God knows that we have come to love Him and by that love He then sets His Spirit upon us as a helper in keeping the Second Commandment. As God's Spirit works in us, our weak flesh however, is unfortunately still working against us. God knows if our spirit is with Him by how hard we work to deny the flesh. This I see is one of the biggest messages in the NT. Not keeping the Torah, but keeping away from the sinful desires of our flesh.
Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, anger, quarrels, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these. I am warning you, as I warned you before: those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
I cannot help but make the connection between Jesus’ commandments in Matthew with the rest of the NT warnings given to us in regards to the flesh.
Colossians 3:5 Put to death, therefore, whatever in you is earthly: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed (which is idolatry). 6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming on those who are disobedient. 7 These are the ways you also once followed, when you were living that life
Romans 13:11 Besides this, you know what time it is, how it is now the moment for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we became believers; 12 the night is far gone, the day is near. Let us then lay aside the works of darkness and put on the armor of light; 13 let us live honorably as in the day, not in reveling and drunkenness, not in debauchery and licentiousness, not in quarreling and jealousy. 14 Instead, put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.
1 Peter 4:1 Since therefore Christ suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same intention (for whoever has suffered in the flesh has finished with sin), 2 so as to live for the rest of your earthly life no longer by human desires but by the will of God. 3 You have already spent enough time in doing what the Gentiles like to do, living in licentiousness, passions, drunkenness, revels, carousing, and lawless idolatry.
1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, 10 thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers none of these will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And this is what some of you used to be. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
Romans 8:6 – To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.
I am seeking to find substance from scripture. I am not seeking to twist it. As you can see the NT does a really good job at illustrating the sins we are to watch out for. Beyond loving God and trusting in Him, and in accordance with loving each other we please God by our daily work in denying our weak flesh with it’s earthly desires. If denying the flesh does not set us a part from this self-indulgent- self centered, greedy world we live in, I don’t know what will!
I feel that our culture with television, internet, consumer products, music and all sorts of other stuff, like never before is pulling on our weak flesh, tempting us to sin. For those of us who have children and grand-children, I pray everyday that God helps us guide our kids against this sick culture in an affective way.
God in the NT is commanding us to
-show our love for Him by believing in the name of His Son
-love each other
-deny the desires of our fleshThese are the commandments that we are told in the NT please God and are necessary to inherit life in His Kingdom.
Hi All:
I'm sorry your hurt within, Jodi , yet your wisdom is very uplifting and very good reading. You searched very well and found your inter peace , sharing that would be a blessing to read. Keep on keeping on for Jesus !Quote (Laurel @ Sep. 19 2007,06:51) First to Mrs.
If you are against the Scripture whether it be of the formaer or the latter, it says you are against Messiah, this is what it means to be “anti-Messiah”Y'shua Messiah taught from the Torah as did His deciples, they didn't create anything new about the Torah (law).
For Jodi,
To say you seek the “image” if God is not a good thing.The Word image is imagination. The beast is an imagined form of worship. This is why I said what I did.
Elohim is not an “image”. Y'shua came as a prophet and was filled with the Spirit of Elohim.
Finally I'd like to say woe to the scribes and Pharisees for causing you who should be happy to follow His commands, to cause you to think His laws are changes or done away with.
Believe the Spirit of truth, but first you must step out in faith to follow His commands, showing Him that you are His people. By ignoring His commands, even saying you come to know Messiah by another Way is just that, another way, and it is not His, so you are not His.
The gentiles in the early assembly went to the Jewish temple to recieve the necessary teaching in order to grow in their faith, and they came on the 7th day and the Feast day Sabbaths, to hear His Word and understand it.
The only Sun-day worship or any other day was to other gods, was , is, and always will be that way and no matter how loud you cry, Elohim will not change for you or for anyone else. If He did it would make Him wishy washy, and non-dependable, and also confusing. He never changes, He only gave us a better means to draw near to Himself, and this is the Spirit. The Torah never changed. period.
Laurel the scriptures here are clearly telling me to be conformed to the image of God's Son, and thus by doing so I have become like God's image. What this means to me is that I need my character to reflect YHWH's righteous character.
Moreover, its not just that I need my character to be such, but that I want my character to reflect such!Ro 8:29 –
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn within a large family1Co 11:7 –
For a man ought not to have his head veiled, since he is the image and reflection of God; but woman is the reflection of man.1Co 15:49 –
Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we will also bear the image of the man of heaven.2Co 3:18 –
And all of us, with unveiled faces, seeing the glory of the Lord as though reflected in a mirror, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Lord, the Spirit.2Co 4:4 –
In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.Col 1:15 –
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;Jodi Nice post again. LOVE GOD WITH ALL Of YOUR HEART AND WITH ALL OF YOUR SOUL AND YOUR
NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.T H E S E A R E T H E G R E A T E S T C OM M A N M E N T M E N T S O F A L L.
I have written this down so many times for them, it seems that the veil, like Mandy mentioned has not been removed. I have wondered so often since I have started my post on the Covenants, if they are even called. There mind seems so closed, that nothing will penetrate it. I hope and pray, that I am wrong about that. I truly believe that those that agree with you, are right with what scriptures have given us. Are your Parents still in the United Church of God? You did tell me that they started that Church with another couple, right? I am not imagining that, am I?
In Christian Love
Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote God in the NT is commanding us to
-show our love for Him by believing in the name of His Son
-love each other
-deny the desires of our fleshAnd if you believe in Jesus then you will do as Jesus did.
That is to love the LORD your GOD with all that you are.
To love God with all that you are is to break His Commandments? His Sabbath day? The forth commandment?
Those who love God keep God's commandments.
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
God's Commandments “AND” THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS, Rev 12:17.
Keep God's Commandments “AND” Faith in Jesus, Rev. 14:12.
Believe in Jesus “AND” keep God's commandments.
Certainly Jesus IS part of the formula but belief in Jesus is just the beginning. Any Christian that is not a babe understands that.
Again in those commandments the Ten Commandments are found.
If you say you keep those two commandments and don't keep God's Commandments then you are a liar and the truth is not in you.Where did Jesus break any of the commandments?
Where did any of the apostles break any of the commandments?
Who is it that changed the seventh day Sabbath to the first day?
Why was it changed if the Sabbath meant nothing!
Why did Satan change the forth commandment, Dan 7:25.Why was Jesus resurrected on the Sabbath day and NOT the first day?
Why 70 years after His resurrection did Jesus know God's people would be keeping the Sabbath?
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Why did Jesus say that the Ten commandments would not change till heaven and earth passed away?
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Has the new earth been in place? Has the last enemy [death] been defeated?
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.AGAIN:
Has the earth passed away?Has death been defeated?
Should you break any of the Father's commandments in the name of Jesus?
Things are getting scary when you are asked to believe that Jesus would want you to break His Father's Commandments.
Ken
Good night
Quote (IM4Truth @ Sep. 19 2007,15:39) Jodi Nice post again. LOVE GOD WITH ALL Of YOUR HEART AND WITH ALL OF YOUR SOUL AND YOUR
NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.T H E S E A R E T H E G R E A T E S T C OM M A N M E N T M E N T S O F A L L.
I have written this down so many times for them, it seems that the veil, like Mandy mentioned has not been removed. I have wondered so often since I have started my post on the Covenants, if they are even called. There mind seems so closed, that nothing will penetrate it. I hope and pray, that I am wrong about that. I truly believe that those that agree with you, are right with what scriptures have given us. Are your Parents still in the United Church of God? You did tell me that they started that Church with another couple, right? I am not imagining that, am I?
In Christian Love
Peace and Love Mrs.
Yes I did say awhile back that my parents helped set up the United Church of God in their area after the split from the WWC of God. The United Church of God then split a few years after that with my parents helping establish the split church that was simply called Church of God. The congregation was really small and met at my parents home. I cannot remember who was the main leader behind the Church of God or where their head quarters were but ironically the reason that they left was due to the Sabbath.
Its amazing how CRAZY people can be when it comes to KEEPING the Sabbath. Basically what happened was that my parents couldn’t have services at their home or attend the Sabbath meeting because my mom needed to take care of my slowly dieing Grandmother. The church gave my mom a really hard time for taking care of my Grandmother over keeping the Sabbath, basically because without my mom’s organization of the church in our local area there was no church. They put a lot of pressure on my mom, trying to make her feel guilty about not keeping the Sabbath. It was all quite sickening really. My dad really had enough with the way they were treating her, and encouraged them to quit the church all together. It was really hard for my mom to let go, but she knew that this church wasn’t for them either.
They have not attending a church now for quite sometime.
God works in mysterious ways. You know if it weren’t for Ken and Laurel, stressing the Sabbath, I would not have learned all that I have in the past few weeks, which has been a lot. I am so thankful to God for this forum, it has really elevated my studies, given me deeper understanding for the scriptures and most importantly it has strengthened my relationship with God. The only thing I feel that lacks in my spiritual life, which I had so much of growing up in the WWC of God, is unity and close fellowship with common believers. I know that God is working on this for me, and I will continue to be patient.
Peace and love to you both Mr. and Mrs.
Kenrch…..> Jesus said (MANY) will come unto me saying Lord in your name we did all these (WORKS) and the reply is depart from me you workers of iniquity I know you not. Do you Know what a iniquity is, Its when a person thinks they are doing what right but it's sin. Listen theres only one way you can Keep Gods commandments and here it is..” I will take out of them the stoney Heart (heard heart) and give them a heart of flesh (SOFT HEART) and I (GOD) will write my laws in there inward parts. Lets let God do his work in us all…….peace brother….gene
Sister Jodi,
Your post on the Sabbath has really cinched-up the subject for me. So much of what you have shared has been exactly what I have been studying and learning. I believe I will leave this thread and continue studying on my own…..I believe I am on the right track now. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this topic! I've enjoyed this study and now feel more firm in my beliefs. Most importantly, I know that I am being obedient to the LORD; I am taking one day to rest in him and enjoy this wonderful life he has given me. In fact, I think I'll choose tomorrow as my Sabbath/rest in him. Praise the Lord and thanks again to Jodi and other's.
Goodnight,
MandyJodi I am sitting here with tears in my eyes, because what happen with your Parents. They showed so much Love by taken care of your Grandmother. And our situation is so similar. My Aunt first was in a Nursing in Assistance Living for 7 years while we picked Her up every Saturday to take Her out. She had Alzheimer and when She got to sick we took Her into our Home and took care of Her for one year before she died. My Husband and our Daughter after I had a real bad fall and was in the Hospital for 4 Months of and on, took care of us both.
We had left the Church right in the beginning of the split and did visit when on of our friends there got sick and died of cancer, so we took his widow to Church a couple of times.
I too miss the fellowship so much. I wonder were you live. We live in Cincinnati, Ohio. We used to be so close with other members everything has changed, which makes me so sad. But I am happy that God has shown us so much truths over the last 12 years. I have never felt so close to God like I am at the present. I am at Peace in Christ Jesus and our Heavenly Father. I can feel their Love for me and that is what it is all about. From God to us, from us to others.In Christian Love and Peace Mrs.:D
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 19 2007,17:01) Kenrch…..> Jesus said (MANY) will come unto me saying Lord in your name we did all these (WORKS) and the reply is depart from me you workers of iniquity I know you not. Do you Know what a iniquity is, Its when a person thinks they are doing what right but it's sin. Listen theres only one way you can Keep Gods commandments and here it is..” I will take out of them the stoney Heart (heard heart) and give them a heart of flesh (SOFT HEART) and I (GOD) will write my laws in there inward parts. Lets let God do his work in us all…….peace brother….gene
Oh yeah I would be much better off saying “nothing”. But IF you believe one should keep the Sabbath how does the Holy Spirit let you sit there with your mouth shut.How does the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of “TRUTH” allow you to NOT defend truth and shine light on Satan's lies?
Oh I know I'm not a smooth talker BUT seems I'm it! I'm the only one that is “LISTENING” and at least trying to help stagnated people “grow”. Not saying “nothing” IMHO is to be part of the problem It says either you don't care OR you agree with those who teach to break the forth commandment
Many are called “few” are chosen. The Sabbath IS the test commandment.
Exo 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.
Exo 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
You agree that if you believe in Jesus that you can break the forth commandment?
When Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments.
When Jesus expected His people to be keeping the Sabbath 70 years after His resurrection.
When Paul taught the Gentiles on the Sabbath!
These people are doing what they believe to be right. YOU on the other hand are a coward and seem to “go with the flow”.
Rev 21:8 But as for the cowardly,the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
You Gene grieve my spirit! And I would prefer that you don't address me in any manner any more.
IHN,
Ken
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