Sabbath

[Laurel]

Ken, You say an suredly so that “Moses” law was aniled to the cross. Y'shua says you are wrong!

Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Joh 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

Act 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Ken, You should be able to see from these verses that Moses was with Elohim and Y'shua was with Elohim, and thus they were on the same page!

If you do not listen to Moses, you can not listen to the Messiah, for Moses spoke of the Messiah.

[Laurel]

You do not believe the Feasts, because you do not believe Messiah or Moses.
You are undermining yourself just ask Iam4.

[kenrch]

Quote (Laurel @ Sep. 15 2007,07:41)

Ken, You say an suredly so that “Moses” law was aniled to the cross. Y'shua says you are wrong! Luk 24:44  And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Joh 5:46  For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. Act 3:22  For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. Ken, You should be able to see from these verses that Moses was with Elohim and Y'shua was with Elohim, and thus they were on the same page! If you do not listen to Moses, you can not listen to the Messiah, for Moses spoke of the Messiah.

Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

What are these scriptures saying?

Joh 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

AND? What? Sure Moses wrote of the coming Messiah and as Luke says HE came and fulfilled what Moses said.

Act 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Act 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Hear what Jesus said:

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

What does living in a tent do?

When NOW IF we look upon a woman with lust we have committed adultery.

The OLD COVENANT was physical like the Scribes and Pharisees.

But we have a NEW COVENANT a “spiritual” covenant because we are guided by the Spirit that “dwells” within us.

Jews don't sacrifice animals anymore do they?

Jews don't believe Jesus was the prophesied Messiah do they?

Jews keep the feasts days BECAUSE they don't believe Jesus was the Messiah. Is this true?

Then WHY would one who believes Jesus IS the Messiah keep the same feasts that those who DON'T believe Jesus was the Messiah?

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

“THE BODY IS OF CHRIST”

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

The Old Covenant was buried with HIM in baptism. I have been baptized in Christ of the New Covenant. I don't need to live in a tent! My sins ARE FORGIVEN! AMEN!

Peace be unto you,

Ken

[Laurel]

FULFILL does it mean to undo, or put an end to? NO! Look at these verses:

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mat 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Do the verses in Matthew put an end to the child that the virgin was to conceive in Isaiah? Make the fulfillment of no effect? Nun and void the importance of what has been fulfilled?

FULFILLED means to give full meaning to. Fulfilled is YHWH's Word is done! All thinks must be fulfilled. Till heaven and earth pass not one dot or one dash will pass from the Torah untill ALL is done.

The last time I checked, heaven and earth were still there.

Laurel

and Ken, how dare you comapre the wicked laws of the Pharisees to Moses law!!!

[kenrch]

Quote (Laurel @ Sep. 16 2007,12:33)

FULFILL does it mean to undo, or put an end to? NO! Look at these verses: Mat 1:21  And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Mat 1:22  Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Mat 1:23  Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Isa 7:14  Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Do the verses in Matthew put an end to the child that the virgin was to conceive in Isaiah? Make the fulfillment of no effect?  Nun and void the importance of what has been fulfilled? FULFILLED means to give full meaning to. Fulfilled is YHWH's Word is done! All thinks must be fulfilled. Till heaven and earth pass not one dot or one dash will pass from the Torah untill ALL is done. The last time I checked, heaven and earth were still there. Laurel and Ken, how dare you comapre the wicked laws of the Pharisees to Moses law!!!

Laurel you do the same as those who deny Christ.

[Laurel]

Ken,
Why do you insist on using your carnal mind to understand Elohim's Word? It isn't possible.

[michaels]

Act 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
this cannot be about jesus for surely they did not hear jesus. so look again,at how moses testified of jesus.hmmm

[kenrch]

Quote (Laurel @ Sep. 16 2007,14:16)

Ken, Why do you insist on using your carnal mind to understand Elohim's Word? It isn't possible.

Laurel I'm not the one sleeping in a tent. It is those under the Old Covenant that do “physical Acts” to show their righteousness.

Those who are led by the Holy Spirit understand that Jesus died for their sins. They are forgiven following a heart repentance and don't have get bread crumbs out of their home. The leaven was a symbol of sin. Under the New Covenant we have NO sin.

1Jo 3:5 You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.
1Jo 3:6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.
1Jo 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.
1Jo 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
1Jo 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.

You say the Holy Spirit was with the priest of the old Covenant. TRUE! But if the priest sin then he (the priest) had to offer blood of an animal for his sin.

Are we not better than the Priest? Not having to sacrifice an animal having the forgiveness of sin as “soon as we repent”.

Peace laurel,

Ken

[Jodi]

Good day to all. I’ve been a little busy, mostly preparing for our new arrival Molly Sue, who could come at anytime now since I’m due on the 29th!

Hear is what I’ve been working on here and there over the past few weeks.

I would like to start off with a quote from Ken,“You don't think that the Ten Commandments of God will remain? When will it be alright to murder?”

I see a major error in Ken’s reasoning here. He seems to believe that in order for there to be sin there must be a commandment. He seems to believe that without the commandment, “do not murder,” murdering would be ok. This is undeniably false thinking.

You DO NOT need a Commandment in order for sin to exist.
Romans 5:13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world.

We are told that the Ten commandments are set aside. (2 Corinthians 3) That does not mean that it is ok to lie, steal, kill ..etc. These are sins regardless whether or not they were written in stone by God or not.

Did God punish Cain for killing his brother? Did God flood the whole world due to evil behavior? Did God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah?

Regardless if there was or is a commandment or not, there are always to modes of sin. The first sin is denying God’s authority and following yourself, or someone else, instead of following God. This was the sin that Adam and Eve committed. The second mode of sin is the thinking and acting in a manner that does not reflect God’s character.

God holds certain purposes for certain commandments. What I believe is important to acknowledge is that not all commandments are merely for the purpose of keeping someone directly from the two modes of sin I just mentioned. For example, Adam and Eve were told not to eat from a certain tree, why….because it is sinful to eat fruit from particular trees… of course not. The commandment was a test, and a teaching device. The sin was not in eating fruit but in denying God’s authority and following your own way.

What are we told was the purpose of the Sabbath that God gave to the Israelites? It was to be a day of remembrance that God freed them from slavery and a day of rest from work. The purpose of the commandment was to bring the Israelites into admiration for God. God wanted the commandment to produce love, respect and thankfulness towards Him.

The Sabbath, as we are told in the NT, was a shadow of what was to come, which is to be freed from the slavery of death and to have true rest from having to fight off our sinful nature brought on by Adam’s punishment. We simply cannot deny the parallel between what the Sabbath represented to the Israelites and what Jesus our Messiah represents to all mankind. God wanted love to grow from the hearts of the Israelites towards Him through the giving of the Sabbath rest, and the acknowledgment on that day that He freed them from slavery. Jesus is our Sabbath. Jesus freed us from slavery and he gives us true rest. God’s work in Jesus produced for us love, respect, thankfulness and admiration towards God. Does Jesus ask us to keep the Sabbath to remember God’s accomplishments in him, NO! He asks us to examine ourselves, break bread and drink wine.

The sin that the Israelites committed was that they did not put God above themselves, they did not trust, love and respect Him after all He had done for them. For the Israelite man who gathered bread on the Sabbath, what was the SIN God was concerned about? Surely we can acknowledge that the man sinned by disobeying the commandment not to do work, but was this what God was concerned about, merely in the fact that he was working when God asked him not to. I believe that under this transgression was an even deeper sin, which was that the man did not have enough trust in the Lord. After all God had done for the man, freeing him from slavery, giving him a day of rest, providing him with food, the man could not overcome his fear of hunger and death. The man just had to gather food, having doubts that God would be there to supply it tomorrow.

To say that the 4th Commandment was about A DAY, is to deny the deeper meaning of scripture, it is skimming off the top of scripture and be grounded in complete lack of substance. To say the Sabbath represented a DAY, is to look at the LETTER and not at the HEART of the commandment.

Doubting God and not trusting Him will ALWAYS be a sin, regardless if it is ever written in stone or not. Cain was most certainly seen as a sinner by God for killing his brother (a sin against God’s character). Are we to think that God saw Noah and Abraham as sinners for not keeping the Sabbath? What a ridiculous idea, just as we fulfill the requirement of the PURPOSE of the 4th Commandment through showing faith and love in God, so did Noah and Abraham.

Here is another way to express my point-

Without the commandment, do not eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, eating the fruit from the tree is not a sin. This commandment served the purpose of teaching the importance of obeying God. Disobeying God was the sin, not eating the fruit.

Without the commandment, thou shall not murder, murder is STILL a sin, because it goes against the character of God which we are suppose to mirror.

Without the commandment to rest on the seventh day, not resting on the seventh day is not a sin. This commandment served a purpose to give the Israelites a day of rest, and to teach them to have faith and love for God by what He had done for them. Working on Saturday is not a sin, not having faith and love for God is.

Without the commandment thou shall not lie, lying is STILL a sin, because it goes against the character of God which we are suppose to mirror.

When a commandment is fulfilled it means that the PURPOSE of a certain commandment has been met, and therefore the commandment is no longer needed

Lets not skim off the top of these scriptures but look deep into their meaning-

Ro 2:13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but the doers of the law who will be justified.
Ro 2:14 When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves.
Ro 2:15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness; and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them

The Gentiles did not have the LAW, they did not have the Sabbath? I doubt that Paul is saying here that the Gentiles SOMEHOW kept a LITERAL Sabbath without being given the law. The always existing and remaining law of God, the law of His Spirit is that we give authority to God with love and that we reflect His character by having love towards others. Paul is telling us that the Gentiles were a law to themselves because their law, which DID NOT have a Sabbath, filled the same requirements as the law of the Israelites. Just as was said before the institution of the Sabbath was not about a Saturday, but about bringing the Israelites closer to God. Gentiles not having a Sabbath, have proven their closeness to God by believing in Him through Jesus.

Ken has said or implied in more ways then one that in order to fill the requirements of the Two Great Commandments, one must keep the Sabbath. He has said that in order to please God we must keep the Sabbath. I wonder how Ken gets around Paul’s words when Paul CLEARLY tells us in Romans that the Gentiles filled the law WITHOUT keeping a Sabbath? After all if they did not have the LAW, they did not have the Sabbath either, and yet they were able to fulfill God’s requirements.

Ken had asked me to explain what are these commandments of God-

1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jo 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do th
ose things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jo 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
1Jo 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

I believe I already answered his question when I said the Two Great Commandments.

Ken seems that he has some authority to tell us, even though we are told in scripture that the Ten Commandments are SET ASIDE, that these scriptures are talking about the Ten Commandments. Neither do I see a reason to believe Ken over 2 Corinthians 3, I don’t see any proof that these scriptures are referring to the Ten Commandments.

[Jodi]

The Book of Matthew and Jesus’ Commandments

Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

–We are being told that Jesus is going to fulfill the requirement of the Torah, and that not one letter of it will pass away for him until his resurrection is accomplished.

19 Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

–In order for Jesus to make it into God’s kingdom and open the kingdom for the rest of mankind he needed to keep the Torah perfectly. By doing so Jesus freed the Israelites from the law, as well as freeing all of mankind from sin through individual repentance and faith. In verse 19, Jesus tells the people that in order for them to make it into the kingdom of God they must keep THESE commandments, which I understand as being the ones he is about to give.

20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

21 “You have heard that it was said to those of ancient times, “You shall not murder'; and “whoever murders shall be liable to judgment.' 22 But I say to you that if you are angry with a brother or sister, you will be liable to judgment; and if you insult a brother or sister, you will be liable to the council; and if you say, “You fool,' you will be liable to the hell of fire. 23 So when you are offering your gift at the altar, if you remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother or sister, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are on the way to court with him, or your accuser may hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you will be thrown into prison. 26 Truly I tell you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny.

27 “You have heard that it was said, “You shall not commit adultery.' 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away; it is better for you to lose one of your members than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better for you to lose one of your members than for your whole body to go into hell. 31 “It was also said, “Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.' 32 But I say to you that anyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of unchastity, causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

33 “Again, you have heard that it was said to those of ancient times, “You shall not swear falsely, but carry out the vows you have made to the Lord.' 34 But I say to you, Do not swear at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 Let your word be “Yes, Yes' or “No, No'; anything more than this comes from the evil one.
38 “You have heard that it was said, “An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 39 But I say to you, Do not resist an evildoer. But if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also; 40 and if anyone wants to sue you and take your coat, give your cloak as well; 41 and if anyone forces you to go one mile, go also the second mile. 42 Give to everyone who begs from you, and do not refuse anyone who wants to borrow from you.
43 “You have heard that it was said, “You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be children of your Father in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers and sisters, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Chapter 6:1 “Beware of practicing your piety before others in order to be seen by them; for then you have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2 “So whenever you give alms, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be praised by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward. 3 But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your alms may be done in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
5 “And whenever you pray, do not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, so that they may be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward. 6 But whenever you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you. 7 “When you are praying, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do; for they think that they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
6 “And whenever you fast, do not look dismal, like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces so as to show others that they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward. 17 But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, 18 so that your fasting may be seen not by others but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. 22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light; 23 but if your eye is unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness! 24 “No one can serve two masters; for a slave will either hate the one and love the other, or be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.
25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 And can any of you by worrying add a single hour to your span of life? 28 And why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they neither toil nor spin, 29 yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not clothed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you;you of little faith? 31 Therefore do not worry, saying, “What will we eat?' or “What will we drink?' or “What will we wear?' 32 For it is the Gentiles who strive for all these things; and indeed your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 But strive first for the kingdo
m of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 “So do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring worries of its own. Today's trouble is enough for today.

Chapter 7:1 “Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. 2 For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. 3 Why do you see the speck in your neighbor's eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your neighbor, “Let me take the speck out of your eye,' while the log is in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor's eye. 6 “Do not give what is holy to dogs; and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under foot and turn and maul you.

7 “Ask, and it will be given you; search, and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened for you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and everyone who searches finds, and for everyone who knocks, the door will be opened. 9 Is there anyone among you who, if your child asks for bread, will give a stone? 10 Or if the child asks for a fish, will give a snake? 11 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

12 “In everything do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets.

–The people are being told that THIS is the law, what Jesus just gave them.

Jesus expresses to the believers that to make it into God’s kingdom is a matter of the heart and mind, and is not as prior, based on keeping the letter.

What is required of us to receive God’s eternal Spirit is that we reach the purpose of the law. The purpose of the law for the Israelites was to be a tutor until Christ came. For the Gentiles who did not have the law, no matter, they had Christ!

How was Jesus able to remain without sin? It was undeniably by the gift of God’s Spirit working in him. How are we able to keep the laws given to us by Jesus, as well, it is by the gift of the Holy Spirit working in us.

Truth is found in God’s work in mankind, particularly from Adam and primarily in Jesus. We are to learn that God is Great and Powerful, and we are weak and hold no power. We are to learn that WE NEED God, and where there is need, there is Love. As well, what we need from God is His Spirit so we can share with Him His righteous character. Adam by bringing the world to death and fear, exposed the weaknesses held within ourselves. Jesus through God’s Spirit working in him, remained sinless. Jesus by his faith in God was able to receive eternal life.

Gentiles are grafted in as Israelites, meaning they receive their promise, not by keeping the Torah but by having FAITH, as Abraham had faith. We know that it says that it is by Faith we are saved, not by works, however we also know that without works faith is dead. God knows that true faith is a matter of the heart and mind and it will be seen outwardly in the form of works if a person’s faith is true.

Galatians 3:6 Consider Abraham: “He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 7 Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. 8 The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”

–Having faith in God is what grants us God’s Spirit. Unfortunately until we receive eternal life, we will still struggle with our weak flesh. Everyday we must ask God to keep His Spirit working in us in order for us to deny our flesh and please God. Those who try with all their heart and mind to deny the flesh will be called Great in the Kingdom of God!

Matthew 22:34 When the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together, 35 and one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. 36 “Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?” 37 He said to him, ” “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38 This is the greatest and FIRST commandment. 39 And a SECOND is like it: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

NOTICE that the First commandment, Jesus does NOT say is- you shall have no other gods before God, neither does he say that the second is- you shall not make any graven images and worship them.

Luke 10:25 Just then a lawyer stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he said, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What do you read there?” 27 He answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have given the right answer; do this, and you will live.”

The Sabbath was unfamiliar to the Gentiles, why do we not only see no mention of the Sabbath being required, but also we see no instruction on how they should keep it?

Luke 16:14 The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all this, and they ridiculed him. 15 So he said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of others; but God knows your hearts; for what is prized by human beings is an abomination in the sight of God. 16 “The law and the prophets were in effect until John came; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is proclaimed, and everyone tries to enter it by force. F148 17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one stroke of a letter in the law to be dropped. 18 “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and whoever marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.

The Pharisees judge others and puff themselves up through there complete anal attitude towards the Torah. When the kingdom of God was proclaimed and Jesus gave the requirements for entering, the OT law and prophets were not longer in effect, however to the Pharisees it would be easier for heaven and earth to pass away then for them to give up their strict views of the laws and the prophets. Verse 18 is stressing as previously done in chapter 16 that just as you cannot commit to and be with one woman and then with another, you cannot serve two masters.

Colossians 2:16-23
16 Therefore do not let anyone condemn you in matters of food and drink or of observing festivals, new moons, or sabbaths. 17 These are only a shadow of what is to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

Ken seems to be conveniently denying that the later Sabbath here represents the weekly Sabbath, and so it looks as if he boasting about his spiritual motorcycle rides on Saturday. I am happy that Ken gets a spiritual fulfillment when he rides his motorcycle, however I hope the substance comes not because he is doing it on Saturday, but because he is doing it for Christ. To think that God would be more pleased with Ken because he rides on Saturday, verses someone who does the same thing on Wednesday afternoon is ridiculous. God is equally pleased with both, as long as they both reflect the substance of Christ. The importance of the Sabbath was the purpose behind what the law was trying to create. The importance of the Sabbath was not about the day itself, but what God was trying to teach through the regiments given on that day.

What God was trying to teach the Israelites through the Sabbath, is a shadow of what God is now trying to teach all people through the anointing of Jesus and his resurrection.

Romans 14:5 Some judge one day to be better than another, while others judge all days to be alike. Let all be fully convinced in their own minds. 6 Those who observe the day, observe it in honor of the Lord. Also those who eat, eat in honor of the Lord
, since they give thanks to God; while those who abstain, abstain in honor of the Lord and give thanks to God. 7 We do not live to ourselves, and we do not die to ourselves. 8 If we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord; so then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's.

–Even though the Sabbath was not required anymore for salvation, I don’t think anyone, even God or Jesus expected the Jews to stop keeping their Sabbath. It was a routine very much established in their lives. Paul emphasized that no matter the day, the substance is to be of Christ. Paul is telling us that whether you’re a Jew and want to stick to your existing routine of worship, or you’re a Gentile and establishing your own routine, as long as the routine is given unto the honor of the Lord, ALL routines are good and EQUAL in the sight of the Lord.

It is the Substance not the DAY. If you say it is about the Day, I believe you are committing idolatry, because you are emphasizing a day OVER God and the importance of His Son.

Colossians 3:23 Whatever your task, put yourselves into it, as done for the Lord and not for your masters, 24 since you know that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward; you serve the Lord Christ.

Everyday and everything that you do is to be for the Lord. Whether you are working or resting your mind and heart are to be with God and His Son!

[kenrch]

Quote

Posted: Sep. 18 2007,06:01 ——————————————————————————– Good day to all. I’ve been a little busy, mostly preparing for our new arrival Molly Sue, who could come at anytime now since I’m due on the 29th! Hear is what I’ve been working on here and there over the past few weeks. I would like to start off with a quote from Ken,“You don't think that the Ten Commandments of God will remain? When will it be alright to murder?” I see a major error in Ken’s reasoning here. He seems to believe that in order for there to be sin there must be a commandment. He seems to believe that without the commandment, “do not murder,” murdering would be ok. This is undeniably false thinking.

I have NEVER said that I have always said the Jesus made the Law spiritual!!!

The Sabbath IS a shadow of the Eternal Sabbath that will be in the New Kingdom.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

I'm really tired of all these “petty” twisted out of context scriptures.

Just answer this:

1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jo 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1Jo 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1Jo 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

You “choose” to overlook, twist, pull out of context, ignore, ALL because of the Sabbath WHY?

Sabbath in Christianity
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While a clear mandate is given for the Sabbath in Exodus 20:8-11 and Deuteronomy 5:12-15, the closest passage to a command for Sabbath-keeping in the New Testament is found in Hebrews 4:9, which describes the Sabbath not as a day, but instead as a state of being, the context and grammar of the passage indicate otherwise. In that passage is found the word “sabbatismos.” The Authorized Version (King James Version of 1611) and New King James Version and several others render that word as “rest.” The American Standard Version of 1901, New American Standard Bible 1995 Updated Edition and several other translations somewhat more correctly render that word as “Sabbath rest.” A few, such as the Darby translation, transliterate the word as “Sabbatism.” However, its literal translation is “Sabbath observance,” and The Scriptures, translated by The Institute For Scripture Research, render it as such, while The Bible in Basic English gives the equally literal “Sabbath keeping.” In regard to taking Sabbatismos literally, Professor Andrew T. Lincoln, on page 213 in his symposium From Sabbath to Lord's Day, states “The use of sabbatismos elsewhere in extant Greek literature gives an indication of its more exact shade of meaning. It is used in Plutarch, De Superstitione 3 (Moralia166A) of Sabbath observance. There are also four occurrences in post canonical literature that are independent of Hebrews 4:9. They are Justin, Dialogue with Trypho 23:3; Epiphanius, Adversus Haereses 30:2:2; Martyrium Petri et Pauli 1; Apostolic Constitutions 2:36:2. In each of these places the term denotes the observance or celebration of the Sabbath. This usage corresponds to the Septuagint usage of the cognate verb sabbatizo (cf. Ex. 16:30; Lev. 23:32; 26:34; 2 Chron. 36:21

Thus the writer to the Hebrews is saying that since the time of Joshua an observance of the Sabbath rest has been outstanding.” The literal translation then of Hebrews 4:9 is “Therefore a Sabbath observance has been left behind for the people of God.” Further, the internal evidence of the preceding verses would indicate that the Sabbath observance mentioned in this verse is indeed the seventh day Sabbath and not the Lord's Day Sabbath. In verse 8, the Hebrew writer states, “For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have afterward spoken of another day.” On first glance in our English translations, that word “another” would give the appearance of a different day. However, in the Greek, there are two words that mean “another”. “Heteros” means “another of a different kind”, while “allos” means “another of the same kind”. The word used in Hebrews 4:8 is “allos”, indicating a Sabbath day of the same kind as referred to in Hebrews 4:8-5, that is, the seventh-day Sabbath. In verse 7, the Hebrews writer uses the term “certain day”. The Greek word for “certain” is “tis”. It is clearly referencing a specific day, and not the general thought of an eternal rest. The force of Hebrews 3:11-4:11 then seems to be saying that because Christians look toward the eternal rest of heaven, the type or shadow of the earthly Sabbath rest still remains, or is “left behind”, literally, for Christians to observe.

Because the eternal Sabbath did not happen there remains a Sabbath for the people of God

Now the question?

Are you a people of God?

Please! I did not write any of the above scriptures.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

To God these things are “basic” they are HIS “Ten Commandments” Rev 22:14 says the saints will be “doing” the Commandments of God.

Scripture says that the Last day Saints will be keeping the Commandments of God.

The call goes out “COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE” AMEN!

In HIS PEACE AND LOVE,

Ken

[Laurel]

Jodi,
I appreciate you thoughts on the law and how it is a teacher. That is exactly what the wors Torah means (instruction).

I was though confused by what “seemed” to be contradictions of breaking the commands as not being the sin itself.

Scripture plainly says that to go against the commands is sin and sin leads to death. Paul said that the 10 commandments were the milk of the Word.

If we can't see that the Torah is good, we are lost. The one thing I do like about your post is that you grasp “somewhat” that we are doing His will when we guard those commands.

Faith without works is dead. That means, we can preach all day about how we love YHWH and respect Y'shua, but it really means “nothing” untill we learn to keep His commands out of that love and respect.

The Sabbath in paticular is tough, because there is nothing like it in the “world.”

The Sabbath command is a special time that He gave us to know whether we worship Him or not. Personally, I want Him to know I worship Him and none other. I keep the Sabbath to show I love and worship Him.

100 million people can tell me they are free to worship any day they want. I will stand on His commands and say to them, “If you love Him, keep His commands.”

Simple.

Love,
Laurel

[IM4Truth]

Jodi My Husband and I have just finished reading your Post. First Congratulation on your Baby Girl. Enjoy Her they grow up so fast. Is this your first? Will pray for you that everything will go O.K. with your delivery with that precious bundle of Joy.

Now, my Husbands reply to your Post was Amen. So is mine, I have tried for so many times with Ken to show Him that we are not under the Law of the O.T. without success. You did a superb job. Another approach to the GREATEST COMMANMENTS OF ALL.
Thank you very much.
Peace and Love Mrs.

[kenrch]

Quote (Laurel @ Sep. 18 2007,06:51)

Jodi, I appreciate you thoughts on the law and how it is a teacher. That is exactly what the wors Torah means (instruction). I was though confused by what “seemed” to be contradictions of breaking the commands as not being the sin itself. Scripture plainly says that to go against the commands is sin and sin leads to death. Paul said that the 10 commandments were the milk of the Word. If we can't see that the Torah is good, we are lost. The one thing I do like about your post is that you grasp “somewhat” that we are doing His will when we guard those commands. Faith without works is dead. That means, we can preach all day about how we love YHWH and respect Y'shua, but it really means “nothing” untill we learn to keep His commands out of that love and respect. The Sabbath in paticular is tough, because there is nothing like it in the “world.” The Sabbath command is a special time that He gave us to know whether we worship Him or not. Personally, I want Him to know I worship Him and none other. I keep the Sabbath to show I love and worship Him. 100 million people can tell me they are free to worship any day they want. I will stand on His commands and say to them, “If you love Him, keep His commands.” Simple. Love, Laurel

AMEN AND AMEN!

[Not3in1]

Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 18 2007,06:01)

I’ve been a little busy, mostly preparing for our new arrival Molly Sue, who could come at anytime now since I’m due on the 29th!

Molly Sue – what an adorable name! I have a little neice named Molly and she is a doll. Just calling her name makes me happy. I will pray that your labor and delivery will go well, and that little Molly Sue is healthy and happy.

And thank you, sister, for everything you have shared. There is freedom in your teaching because you are looking into the true meaning of Christ. I applaude you on your study and just wanted to let you know how much it has helped me!

Love to you and your family,
Mandy

[GeneBalthrop]

Jodi….> May our Father be with you in your delivery of baby Molly. Your post was very good, and even though I reconize the sabbath, i look at it in a spritual sence also. It does picture a time when we enter into our rest and let God work in Us and thats not just one day a week but every day. Blessings to you and yours……..gene

[IM4Truth]

Ken and Laurel That is exacly what I thought you two would answer to that instead or trying to see what she is talking about, you go into your same modes.
And to ignore that she is with child, really shows what you are all about.
You two simply do not understand the Covenants of God.

Peace and Love Mrs.

[IM4Truth]

Gen Thank you. I am very pleased that you agree with Jodi.

Peace and Love Mrs.

[kenrch]

Quote (IM4Truth @ Sep. 18 2007,07:00)

Jodi My Husband and I have just finished reading your Post. First Congratulation on your Baby Girl. Enjoy Her they grow up so fast. Is this your first? Will pray for you that everything will go O.K. with your delivery with that precious bundle of Joy. Now, my Husbands reply to your Post was Amen. So is mine, I have tried for so many times with Ken to show Him that we are not under the Law of the O.T. without success. You did a superb job. Another approach to the GREATEST COMMANMENTS OF ALL. Thank you very much. Peace and Love Mrs.

Then won't YOU please explain those scriptures that say “keep His Commandments”?

That was an Amen from Mr and an agreement from Mrs, is that correct

Either way explain those scriptures that say keep the commandments.

AND WHY YOU DO not?

kEN

[IM4Truth]

Hi Mandy Just like to say how God works and encourages us in the belief that we have, when others like Jodi comes and writes and confirms, that we are on the right track. It is God's Holy Spirit at work, Jodi worked at this for some time. It made my day.
Peace and Love Mrs.:D

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