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People get upset when I say you are following the Harlot. Well if you are breaking one of His commandments that the NEW Testament clearly says we should keep. Then who are you following….GOD?
Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 20 2007,07:31) People get upset when I say you are following the Harlot. Well if you are breaking one of His commandments that the NEW Testament clearly says we should keep. Then who are you following….GOD?
O Judah why have you turned your Back not to obey God
I have Planted a noble vine sayeth the Lord; wholly a right seed; why have you turned to degenerate a plant of a strange vine unto me?Jer 2:20 ¶ For of old time I have broken thy yoke, [and] burst thy bands; and thou saidst, I will not transgress; when upon every high hill and under every green tree thou wanderest, playing the harlot.
Yet I had planted thee a noble vine, wholly a right seed: how then art thou turned into the degenerate plant of a strange vine unto me?
For though thou wash thee with nitre, and take thee much soap, [yet] thine iniquity is marked before me, saith the Lord GOD.
How canst thou say, I am not polluted, I have not gone after Baalim? see thy way in the valley, know what thou hast done: [thou art] a swift dromedary traversing her ways;
A wild ass used to the wilderness, [that] snuffeth up the wind at her pleasure; in her occasion who can turn her away? all they that seek her will not weary themselves; in her month they shall find her.
Withhold thy foot from being unshod, and thy throat from thirst: but thou saidst, There is no hope: no; for I have loved strangers, and after them will I go.
¶ As the thief is ashamed when he is found, so is the house of Israel ashamed; they, their kings, their princes, and their priests, and their prophets,
Saying to a stock, Thou [art] my father; and to a stone, Thou hast brought me forth: for they have turned [their] back unto me, and not [their] face: but in the time of their trouble they will say, Arise, and save us.
But where [are] thy gods that thou hast made thee? let them arise, if they can save thee in the time of thy trouble: for [according to] the number of thy cities are thy gods, O Judah.Zion must be redeemned; its foundations where layed full of Judgement' with rightoeusness lodged in it; but murders tiik hold; till seventy years be ended
Isa 1:21 ¶ How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers. :22 Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water: :23 Thy princes [are] rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them.:26 And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city.
:27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.
:28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners [shall be] together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed.
:29 For they shall be ashamed of the oaks which ye have desired, and ye shall be confounded for the gardens that ye have chosen.
Isa 23:15 ¶ And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an harlot.Return oh Harlot;GOD iS FULL OF MERCY; sing your songs AS holiness before the lord;without the spirit of Bondage again.
For the goverment of judah has caused Israel to come under the curse; she remains as a harlot to breck free from Judahs rulers
Isa 23:16 Take an harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make sweet melody, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered. :17 And it shall come to pass after the end of seventy years, that the LORD will visit Tyre, and she shall turn to her hire, and shall commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the world upon the face of the earth. :18 And her merchandise and her hire shall be holiness to the LORD: it shall not be treasured nor laid up; for her merchandise shall be for them that dwell before the LORD, to eat sufficiently, and for durable clothing.charity
Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 20 2007,07:26) Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2007,06:53) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 20 2007,03:33) You are confused with the OT covenant and the New covenant.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin.
The Old testament people did NOT have the Spirit to guide them. They HAD to go to the letter for instruction.
OK, here we go – the above post is the meat of the conversation for me (hidding behind the finger pointing and meaningless accusations). If we can keep to the meat of the teaching, other's will be edified and instructed. Accusing members of not keeping the Sabbath because they do not want to keep the Commandments of God will not bring a desire to embrace the Sabbath (which I assume is your hearts desire and the reason why you are teaching here).You ask: Am I led by the Spirit? Well, I pray so.
You ask: Do I know the law is spiritual and no longer on stone? Well, no, I don't know because as far as I am aware, the 10 Commandments are still written in stone – safely stored in the Ark of the Covenant.
You say: In Corinthians Paul teaches we are letter from Christ, not written of ink but of God, and not on stone but on our hearts. And you interpret this as God wanting us to do what we want, even in regards to the Sabbath? Well, I'm not sure about this. The Sabbath is a part of the 10 Commandments that are written in stone (and still are written in stone), no where in the NT are we told that these Commandments have been done away with. This passage in Corinthians does not seem to say we have the freedom to determine what Commandments to obey OR what “part” of the Commandments to do away with. It doesn't seem to give us the freedom to determine for ourselves which part of the Commandments are “physical” and which parts are “spiritual”? So my question would be – how do we determine this? By the Spirit?
If by the Spirit, then can one determine what they will about the Commandments? What if someone believes that the Spirit is directing them to murder an anti-Christ believer? They can say that according to the Spirit of God they obeyed the Law. Because the Law is no longer “physical” (meaning, thou shall not kill), but it is “spiritual” (meaning, God told me to take this life to purify the world so the murder is justified). Do you see what I'm saying.
In other words, regarding the Sabbath, the question is really do we keep the Commandment as it is written in stone (keep the day holy and do not do as you wish), OR are we free to not keep it as it is written in stone (keep the day, but do as you wish). Do you see my question? If you do, where can you show me that this written in stone rule has been softened to mean you may keep only the day, but not the rules pertaining to that day.
Whew. I'm exhausted……..
I really am trying to understand this brother's and sister's.
How do you say that “Good Grief”You are free to sin or not to sin. to obey God or not to obey God.
You do what the Spirit wants BUT you have to agree to what the Spirit wants you to do. If you do it because you HAVE to then you belong in the OT.
You can't understand then wait on the Spirit to show you if you have ears to hear.
IFYou are deceived then you have nothing to worry about, just go on with what you are doing BUTIf in your heart you know that you should be keeping the Seventh Day Sabbath of God then you have a problem because you are NOTdoing what the Spirit is telling you.
When you believe that the forth commandment, Seventh day Sabbath of God should be kept let me know otherwise I won't play your little games of cat and mouse.
IFpeople want to believe what you say, that keeping the Sabbath Day is a stumbling block then so be it.
IFpeople believe that I'm judging them and NOTthe law then so be it.
BUTIf anyone is sincere and want to know about the Sabbath then so be it.
In other words you will reap what you sow. So be it!
IHN&LOVE,
Ken
OK, Ken.You've missed the majority of my questions and points, but whatever. Thanks, anyway…….
Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 20 2007,07:31) People get upset when I say you are following the Harlot. Well if you are breaking one of His commandments that the NEW Testament clearly says we should keep. Then who are you following….GOD?
This is exactly my question of you, Ken…..If the NT says to keep the seventh day Sabbath, then I believe it, and I'll keep it.
If the NT says how to keep the seventh day Sabbath, then I'll follow their example – where might I find that information? The disciples and Paul either attended or lead services on the Sabbath…..I don't recall any of them doing what brought them pleasure OR what they wanted to on the Sabbath? Where might I find this freedom-teaching? Thanks.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2007,10:14) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 20 2007,07:31) People get upset when I say you are following the Harlot. Well if you are breaking one of His commandments that the NEW Testament clearly says we should keep. Then who are you following….GOD?
This is exactly my question of you, Ken…..If the NT says to keep the seventh day Sabbath, then I believe it, and I'll keep it.
If the NT says how to keep the seventh day Sabbath, then I'll follow their example – where might I find that information? The disciples and Paul either attended or lead services on the Sabbath…..I don't recall any of them doing what brought them pleasure OR what they wanted to on the Sabbath? Where might I find this freedom-teaching? Thanks.
Sister you don't keep the Sabbath so what is your question?You say you keep the Sabbath the “any day” Sabbath is that following God?
Again I show you the log in your eye. I don't think I'll trust you to remove a speck in mine.
No need to ask you where is there scripture that says “keep any day”?
Again Sister what I do on the Sabbath lines up with scripture and the Spirit. Should I worry about you?
To be honest (and I'm always honest) You couldn't keep the Sabbath, not spiritually anyway because your heart is not in it.
God of the New Testament wants compassion not sacrifice. In the state you are in you could never want to keep His day. You could keep it the OT way, physical. But that's NOT what HE wants.
You can't please God if you don't want too.
That's enough don't you think?
If you wish to continue to waste your fiery darts then have at it.
IN HIS NAME AND LOVE,
YOUR BRO,
Ken
Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 20 2007,12:36) To be honest (and I'm always honest) You couldn't keep the Sabbath, not spiritually anyway because your heart is not in it.
No one knows the heart of another man.Brother, you are not able to look past the critical pettiness of it all, and that is sad. You have missed an opportunity to teach and to share what you know to an open mind and heart.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2007,03:24) Ken writes:
Since Pentecost was fulfilled we have the Holy Spirit to guide us. Jesus taught that the Law was no longer physical but spiritual, Mat 5:27, 28. Paul said the law was spiritual, Rom 7:14.
**********************Ken, you say that Jesus taught the Law is no longer physical but spiritual. Does this mean that certain Laws are no longer physically enforced (as in how you keep the Sabbath)? If the Law is not physical anymore, then why does it matter if it's on a certain day or not?
Ken writes:
Do we have to keep the Sabbath? NO! The Father wants us to do what we want.
**************************Now let me get this straight, now you say we don't have to keep the Sabbath? But the 4th Commandment says that we do! Other Commandments tell us not to murder and not to steal. Can we choose not to obey those? Do we have to keep those Commandments if we do not have to keep the Sabbath Commandment? Does the Father want us to do what we want in regards to the other Commandments or just the Sabbath? I'm truly confused.
me like this way of weasleing around the truth,hehe ,the sabath is one of the commandments,if you break one you break them all,jesus never broke any of the commandments,for it is lawful to do good on the sabath,and his diciples,who picked and ate corn did not break the sabath in this act either,for their was no work in it,the traditions of men had made it hard to keep the sabath joyfully before the LORD.yet if the pharicies donkey was in a ditch he would pull it out, but if you pulled an apple off a tree, and ate it the leaders of the time thought you worthy of stoneing,they had lost the TRUTH,that the sabath is for us, to be joyfull before the LORD.Quote (michaels @ Aug. 20 2007,12:51) Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2007,03:24) Ken writes:
Since Pentecost was fulfilled we have the Holy Spirit to guide us. Jesus taught that the Law was no longer physical but spiritual, Mat 5:27, 28. Paul said the law was spiritual, Rom 7:14.
**********************Ken, you say that Jesus taught the Law is no longer physical but spiritual. Does this mean that certain Laws are no longer physically enforced (as in how you keep the Sabbath)? If the Law is not physical anymore, then why does it matter if it's on a certain day or not?
Ken writes:
Do we have to keep the Sabbath? NO! The Father wants us to do what we want.
**************************Now let me get this straight, now you say we don't have to keep the Sabbath? But the 4th Commandment says that we do! Other Commandments tell us not to murder and not to steal. Can we choose not to obey those? Do we have to keep those Commandments if we do not have to keep the Sabbath Commandment? Does the Father want us to do what we want in regards to the other Commandments or just the Sabbath? I'm truly confused.
me like this way of weasleing around the truth,hehe ,the sabath is one of the commandments,if you break one you break them all,jesus never broke any of the commandments,for it is lawful to do good on the sabath,and his diciples,who picked and ate corn did not break the sabath in this act either,for their was no work in it,the traditions of men had made it hard to keep the sabath joyfully before the LORD.yet if the pharicies donkey was in a ditch he would pull it out, but if you pulled an apple off a tree, and ate it the leaders of the time thought you worthy of stoneing,they had lost the TRUTH,that the sabath is for us, to be joyfull before the LORD.
Hi Micheals,May you do as you wish on the Sabbath day so long as you keep the SEVENTH Day?
Quote (michaels @ Aug. 20 2007,00:07) saturday GOD rested and said it was good ,this is from sun down friday,until sundown saturday,24 hole hours we get to spend with our father ,in rest ,fellowship,and praise. praise you father, and thank you.
this is the seventh and the sabath!!!!Yes, I understand that the Seventh Day is the Sabbath. My question is are you free to do what you want to on the Sabbath?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2007,12:39) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 20 2007,12:36) To be honest (and I'm always honest) You couldn't keep the Sabbath, not spiritually anyway because your heart is not in it.
No one knows the heart of another man.Brother, you are not able to look past the critical pettiness of it all, and that is sad. You have missed an opportunity to teach and to share what you know to an open mind and heart.
No but the Spirit does.And I told you what I do on the Sabbath lines up with scripture and the Spirit.
How about the “any day” sabbath you keep? Tell me what do YOU do on your sabbath?
I gave you scripture. You reject it to “do your thing the any day thing” THAT'S what is SAD.
I can see past your pettiness I see the root of it all. You don't want to know the true Sabbath you want to argue to keep your sabbath.
But I am curious just what do you do on your any day sabbath?
Just for clarity of all one the many “sides”, from the ESV
Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Mat 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Mat 5:19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.The Greek word used in 5:19 that the ESV renders as “relaxes” is “luo”
a primary verb; to “loosen” (literally or figuratively):–break (up), destroy, dissolve, (un-)loose, melt, put off. Compare rhgnumi – rhegnumi 4486.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2007,13:12) Yes, I understand that the Seventh Day is the Sabbath. My question is are you free to do what you want to on the Sabbath?
You are free from the letter but not from the Spirit. Who would want to be?Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 20 2007,13:45) Just for clarity of all one the many “sides”, from the ESV Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Mat 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Mat 5:19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Did the apostles “relax” the Sabbath commandment by picking corn?If you are in the Spirit then you are guided by the Spirit and are free from the letter of the Old Testament, 2Cor3:17.
Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 19 2007,20:50) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 20 2007,13:45) Just for clarity of all one the many “sides”, from the ESV Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Mat 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Mat 5:19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Did the apostles “relax” the Sabbath commandment by picking corn?If you are in the Spirit then you are guided by the Spirit and are free from the letter of the Old Testament, 2Cor3:17.
How does your statement compare with Matthew 5:18?Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 20 2007,13:55) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 19 2007,20:50) Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 20 2007,13:45) Just for clarity of all one the many “sides”, from the ESV Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Mat 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Mat 5:19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Did the apostles “relax” the Sabbath commandment by picking corn?If you are in the Spirit then you are guided by the Spirit and are free from the letter of the Old Testament, 2Cor3:17.
How does your statement compare with Matthew 5:18?
It was against the letter to pick corn on the Sabbath or even build a fire. But the Lord of the Sabbath was there with them.Does not the Lord of the Sabbath live in your heart?
I know he does! So we follow the lead of the Spirit. Do we stop following the lead of the Spirit on the Sabbath?
They ate of necessity. When Yashua healed on the sabbath, he saved a life. When your “ox was in the ditch” (you chose to work on a Sabbath), was this an absolute necessity?
Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2007,21:12) Yes, I understand that the Seventh Day is the Sabbath. My question is are you free to do what you want to on the Sabbath?
no,if what you want is for your own selfishness,yes if all you want is the father and to spend time with him,then you are truely doing what you want,and keeping the law,me dont drive on the sabath,or buy ,and sell,for it says to rest,and in our day in age me consider my car,my donkey.and if me bought or sold,me would only be helping everyone who dosent keep GODS day to justify thier actions. yet there have been times when people have needed my help,so if it was to drive ,or work by moveing alot of stuff,for others,even though it was the sabath ,me felt lead to help ,out of love,for GOD is love,he said if you cant love your brother who you can see, how can you love me who you cannot see,yet sometimes me want to be selfish and not help my brother because it is the sabath, yet GOD says go,for he is love.me allways tell people if they need my help please make it any other day and me will be glad to lend a hand or anything they need,yet there are times when we all get our donkeys stuck in a ditch and need help,so would it be love not to help,if you dont help,you dont love your brother,this would be breaking another commandment,so truely we need to be lead by the spirit of TRUTH in all things.Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 20 2007,14:05) They ate of necessity. When Yashua healed on the sabbath, he saved a life. When your “ox was in the ditch” (you chose to work on a Sabbath), was this an absolute necessity?
Did the apostle know which day was the preparation day and that according to the letter they should have gathered twice as much? When Jesus healed a cripple on the Sabbath He couldn't wait one more day? No He healed the cripple on the Sabbath to show how to keep the Sabbath.The Sabbath was made for man NOT man for the Sabbath. It is GOOD to do good on the Sabbath.
The Spirit knows what you should AND should not do on the Sabbath.
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