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I find there are many who call themselves Messianic Jews, just like many call themselves christains, they are all teaching different things from one church to the next all under the same titles.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 26 2007,19:35) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 26 2007,13:24) Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 26 2007,13:19) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 25 2007,14:35) not3in1…..I think you may be right Mandy, the Messianic's I think are believers in Jesus. Sorry!….gene
Hey, no problem. I'm new to this Sabbath stuff and I'm taking all information and processing it well.Laurel, ya, I'll have to check into “Jews for Jesus” and see what their beliefs are – thanks for the head's up. I'm not sure if this Messianic congregation is of that denomination or what they are. I'll maybe put a phone call into them this week and find out so I am not wasting my time. Thanks.
The messianic Jews keep Moses' law and “some” reject Paul's writings. Just do a Google search on Messianic Jews.
Good idea, thanks Ken.Many of the messianic Jews today worship on Sunday.
The apostles were truly messianic Jews. They accepted Christ, dropped the ceremonial laws concerning animal sacrifices. But apart from that, little changed in their doctrine.
A true messianic Jew today will have the same religion as Paul and the apostles.
Quote (Cult Buster @ Aug. 26 2007,23:33) Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 26 2007,19:35) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 26 2007,13:24) Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 26 2007,13:19) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 25 2007,14:35) not3in1…..I think you may be right Mandy, the Messianic's I think are believers in Jesus. Sorry!….gene
Hey, no problem. I'm new to this Sabbath stuff and I'm taking all information and processing it well.Laurel, ya, I'll have to check into “Jews for Jesus” and see what their beliefs are – thanks for the head's up. I'm not sure if this Messianic congregation is of that denomination or what they are. I'll maybe put a phone call into them this week and find out so I am not wasting my time. Thanks.
The messianic Jews keep Moses' law and “some” reject Paul's writings. Just do a Google search on Messianic Jews.
Good idea, thanks Ken.Many of the messianic Jews today worship on Sunday.
The apostles were truly messianic Jews. They accepted Christ, dropped the ceremonial laws concerning animal sacrifices. But apart from that, little changed in their doctrine.
A true messianic Jew today will have the same religion as Paul and the apostles.
Quote Many of the messianic Jews today worship on Sunday. I wouldn't doubt it!
Quote (Cult Buster @ Aug. 26 2007,23:33) Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 26 2007,19:35) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 26 2007,13:24) Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 26 2007,13:19) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 25 2007,14:35) not3in1…..I think you may be right Mandy, the Messianic's I think are believers in Jesus. Sorry!….gene
Hey, no problem. I'm new to this Sabbath stuff and I'm taking all information and processing it well.Laurel, ya, I'll have to check into “Jews for Jesus” and see what their beliefs are – thanks for the head's up. I'm not sure if this Messianic congregation is of that denomination or what they are. I'll maybe put a phone call into them this week and find out so I am not wasting my time. Thanks.
The messianic Jews keep Moses' law and “some” reject Paul's writings. Just do a Google search on Messianic Jews.
Good idea, thanks Ken.Many of the messianic Jews today worship on Sunday.
The apostles were truly messianic Jews. They accepted Christ, dropped the ceremonial laws concerning animal sacrifices. But apart from that, little changed in their doctrine.
A true messianic Jew today will have the same religion as Paul and the apostles.
We have two Messianic congregations in our town and one worships on Saturday, while the other worships on Sunday. Go figure.
Thou shall not commit adultery. Commandment. Physical.
Thou shall not lust after a women in your heart, if you do, you have commited adultery with her. Commandment. Spiritual.
Now, the reason the Commandment *became* spiritual is because we were not able to keep the orginal Commandment? I have been able to refrain from committing adultery and breaking the Commandment, but wait! I have lusted in my heart, so I have committed adultery in my heart. Is it the same thing? YES.
So let me get this straight, I haven't broken the Commandment physically but I have broken it spiritually. Which is worse? Or are they both the same? SAME.
I am unable to keep the Law. For even if I am able to keep the physical part of the Law (not commiting adultery OR keeping the Sabbath on the Seventh Day), I am unable to keep the Law spiritually (never lusting in my heart), therefore, I have not kept ANY OF THE LAW! If you can't keep all of it, you have kept none of it.
Why are we then commanded to keep the Commandments, if we cannot keep them? I'm still really, really struggling with this.
not3in1 Would like to make a suggestion to you. Hopefully you have a Strong's Concordance, look up Covenant and do a study on it. It might help you.
Peace and Love always Mrs.
Quote (IM4Truth @ Aug. 27 2007,16:26) not3in1 Would like to make a suggestion to you. Hopefully you have a Strong's Concordance, look up Covenant and do a study on it. It might help you. Peace and Love always Mrs.
Good advice, Mrs! I'll do that. I've been praying and praying for understanding. But I confess, it's really confusing to me.Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 27 2007,16:11) Thou shall not commit adultery. Commandment. Physical. Thou shall not lust after a women in your heart, if you do, you have commited adultery with her. Commandment. Spiritual.
Now, the reason the Commandment *became* spiritual is because we were not able to keep the orginal Commandment? I have been able to refrain from committing adultery and breaking the Commandment, but wait! I have lusted in my heart, so I have committed adultery in my heart. Is it the same thing? YES.
So let me get this straight, I haven't broken the Commandment physically but I have broken it spiritually. Which is worse? Or are they both the same? SAME.
I am unable to keep the Law. For even if I am able to keep the physical part of the Law (not commiting adultery OR keeping the Sabbath on the Seventh Day), I am unable to keep the Law spiritually (never lusting in my heart), therefore, I have not kept ANY OF THE LAW! If you can't keep all of it, you have kept none of it.
Why are we then commanded to keep the Commandments, if we cannot keep them? I'm still really, really struggling with this.
We do our best and leave the rest to Him. It is the Spirit that keeps the commandments. The Spirit tells us not to lust. If you begin to lust you stop and repent and continue your walk. But we don't give up. If you gave up when you were learning to walk then you would still be crawling.1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
Peace,
Ken
Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 27 2007,17:05) Good words, brother. Thank you.
Mandy
We all slip into the flesh. We must remember that it is HE that is in us that has defeated the world and it's god.Just look at what Paul said about himself.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.Rom 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out.
Rom 7:19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being,
Rom 7:23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members.Rom 7:24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
Rom 7:25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.In His Peace and Love ,
Ken
Mandy,
I believe that Jesus gave examples of what truly must be done to “keep the law” to help us understand that we cannot earn our way into eternal life. I believe we are “saved” by our faith and that is always accompanied by repentance from self and replaced by love for God and others. This love will drive us to seek truth and the truth will set us free as we embrace it.
Quote Romans 14:5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8 If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11 It is written:
” 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' ”
So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
I posted this in the birthday thread and I believe it to be just as valid for the sabbath. I agree with my dear brother Ken that Saturday is the sabbath but while I do try to hold it as a special day (because it is special to God) I do not believe it is “required” I only do it to honor the Father. I have been studying on this since Ken bought it up a few months ago and I may be wrong but the arguments offered to date have not swayed me to change my position, but I'm keeping it in prayer that the Holy Spirit will lead me into the truth.Wm
Quote (seekingtruth @ Aug. 27 2007,17:32) I agree with my dear brother Ken that Saturday is the sabbath but while I do try to hold it as a special day (because it is special to God) I do not believe it is “required” I only do it to honor the Father. I have been studying on this since Ken bought it up a few months ago and I may be wrong but the arguments offered to date have not swayed me to change my position, but I'm keeping it in prayer that the Holy Spirit will lead me into the truth.
Amen, I agree with you!Thank you for your words, WM. I am also praying and seeking God as to what he wants me to do regarding the Sabbath and Feasts. I get the feeling that Feasts are not something we are obligated to do anymore (along with the sacrifices). But I am still studying……
Peace brothers (thanks to you as well Ken),
MandyQuote (seekingtruth @ Aug. 27 2007,17:32) Mandy,
I believe that Jesus gave examples of what truly must be done to “keep the law” to help us understand that we cannot earn our way into eternal life. I believe we are “saved” by our faith and that is always accompanied by repentance from self and replaced by love for God and others. This love will drive us to seek truth and the truth will set us free as we embrace it.
Quote Romans 14:5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8 If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11 It is written:
” 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' ”
So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
I posted this in the birthday thread and I believe it to be just as valid for the sabbath. I agree with my dear brother Ken that Saturday is the sabbath but while I do try to hold it as a special day (because it is special to God) I do not believe it is “required” I only do it to honor the Father. I have been studying on this since Ken bought it up a few months ago and I may be wrong but the arguments offered to date have not swayed me to change my position, but I'm keeping it in prayer that the Holy Spirit will lead me into the truth.Wm
This is why we keep all of God's law because we love Him.1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
We do what we can. That's all what is asked of us. It is the enemy that will Accuse us of not keeping the law correctly. We do as we know.
Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and mind and soul.
We have been brain washed that the Sabbath is leagal bondage. Is that how God is? The one who's definition is Love. If the Sabbath is bondage it is because we make it bondage as the Pharisees did. We are free in the Spirit free from the Letter of the Law!
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
In Peace and Love,
Ken
Christmas and Easter are kept by most Christains. Why? Satan has used the family togetherness of tradition to cover up YHWH's reaf Feastivals, Satan has also done an excellent job swaying people from YHWH's set apart Sabbath. Satan knows if we break one we break them all, and we can not repent something that WE think is OK.
Quote (Laurel @ Aug. 28 2007,16:34) Christmas and Easter are kept by most Christains. Why? Satan has used the family togetherness of tradition to cover up YHWH's reaf Feastivals, Satan has also done an excellent job swaying people from YHWH's set apart Sabbath. Satan knows if we break one we break them all, and we can not repent something that WE think is OK.
Laurel,Can you show me in the Bible where celebrating Christmas and Easter are wrong? Thanks.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 27 2007,20:11) Thou shall not commit adultery. Commandment. Physical. Thou shall not lust after a women in your heart, if you do, you have commited adultery with her. Commandment. Spiritual.
Now, the reason the Commandment *became* spiritual is because we were not able to keep the orginal Commandment? I have been able to refrain from committing adultery and breaking the Commandment, but wait! I have lusted in my heart, so I have committed adultery in my heart. Is it the same thing? YES.
So let me get this straight, I haven't broken the Commandment physically but I have broken it spiritually. Which is worse? Or are they both the same? SAME.
I am unable to keep the Law. For even if I am able to keep the physical part of the Law (not commiting adultery OR keeping the Sabbath on the Seventh Day), I am unable to keep the Law spiritually (never lusting in my heart), therefore, I have not kept ANY OF THE LAW! If you can't keep all of it, you have kept none of it.
Why are we then commanded to keep the Commandments, if we cannot keep them? I'm still really, really struggling with this.
Hi Not3inone.We can keep all of God's commandments both physically and spiritually.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
The reason that we fail is that we try to do it in our own strength. Paul the apostle tells us that we must die to self daily and live for Christ. The power to overcome temptation comes from the “indwelling Christ”
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Phi 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
Quote (seekingtruth @ Aug. 27 2007,17:32) Mandy,
I believe that Jesus gave examples of what truly must be done to “keep the law” to help us understand that we cannot earn our way into eternal life. I believe we are “saved” by our faith and that is always accompanied by repentance from self and replaced by love for God and others. This love will drive us to seek truth and the truth will set us free as we embrace it.
Quote Romans 14:5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8 If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11 It is written:
” 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' ”
So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
I posted this in the birthday thread and I believe it to be just as valid for the sabbath. I agree with my dear brother Ken that Saturday is the sabbath but while I do try to hold it as a special day (because it is special to God) I do not believe it is “required” I only do it to honor the Father. I have been studying on this since Ken bought it up a few months ago and I may be wrong but the arguments offered to date have not swayed me to change my position, but I'm keeping it in prayer that the Holy Spirit will lead me into the truth.Wm
Brother is it required that you NOT murder? Do you NOT murder to honor your Father? BUT you are RIGHT! You keep the Sabbath to HONOR your Father. Why would it be REQUIRED to honor your Father. If one is born again wouldn't it be natural to WANT to honor your Father?Can anyone including GOD force LOVE! “I REQUIRE you to LOVE me!” God simply lets us know WHAT pleases HIM. It's up to the individual IF HE LOVES THE FATHER. God CANNOT FORCE anyone to Love Him.
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
REQUIRED NO! You're not required to do anything. But IF you Love Him you do what pleases Him.
This is your love for God.
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
There is NOTHING difficult about why one would keep the Sabbath. Scripture is plain and clear.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 28 2007,17:19) Quote (Laurel @ Aug. 28 2007,16:34) Christmas and Easter are kept by most Christains. Why? Satan has used the family togetherness of tradition to cover up YHWH's reaf Feastivals, Satan has also done an excellent job swaying people from YHWH's set apart Sabbath. Satan knows if we break one we break them all, and we can not repent something that WE think is OK.
Laurel,Can you show me in the Bible where celebrating Christmas and Easter are wrong? Thanks.
People say they want to honor Christ on His birthday. Then WHY honor Him on someone else's birthday? Does one celebrate their child's birthday on the day THEY were born?No one knows when Christ was born, WHY? If Jesus wanted you to celebrate His birthday wouldn't He let you know WHEN He was born?
Historians put Christ birthday sometime between Sep. Oct. BUT again No one knows the day! But if one is SO bent on celebrating CHRIST birthday to HONOR Christ then WHY keep the day the WORLD keeps; a PAGAN day? Why not pick a day CLOSER to the REAL day He was born At LEAST IN THE SAME MONTH! NO! One who keeps christmas is keeping a worldly pagan day when people PARTY, drive drunk, and kill people. A time when their real god is shown by the MATERIAL things they buy.
You must keep days? Then keep GOD'S Days not the Harlot's days.
EASTER?! Gees what is Easter SUPPOSE to be about? What do “bunny rabbits laying eggs have to do with Christ resurrection?” Christ was resurrected on the seventh day Sabbath of God NOT the day of a PAGAN goddess. Resurrection Sunday the Harlot's day, the reason she gave as to why she change GOD'S Sabbath. ALL these days are WORLDLY PAGAN DAYS that have been “CHRISTIANIZED” by the Harlot.
I must ask WHO do you honor when you keep these days? Who's doctrine are you keeping? Do Christians do the same as the world? I believe you are a witness of the TRUE GOD by NOT keeping WORLDLY days of the Harlot.
PEACE AND LOVE,
Ken
Y'shua Messiah was born durring the Feast of Tabernacles.
Most people do not know when He was born because of men's traditions overshadowing YHWH's “appointed times”.I just want to say to everyone, I am not putting you down for celebrating Christmas because you do it with the intent toward celebrating Y'shua's birth. I celebrated Christmas as a child and taught my children when they were young that Christmas was Y'shua's birthday. Now I know the truth, so now I taught my children the truth.
I am in the same boat with everyone here, so I was deceived by Satan. This is not me pointing fingers. This is me admitting I was douped! Now that I know the truth I am commanded to teach it.
The Feast of Trumpets is coming very soon. I will post the dates for anyone who wants to celebrate the Fall Holidays according to Scripture. The dates I post are according to the barley in abib in Jerusalem, and the first sliver of the new moon.
You can judge me and mock me for celebrating His 'appointed times” and “seasons”, but it won't bother me a bit. My judgement comes from Elohim, not man.
According to Leviticus 23 these are His appointed times:
All dates I give the appointed time begins at sunset and concludes the following day at sunset.Trumpets, NO SERVILE WORK,(07/01/6007) 09/13/2007
Day of Atonement NO SERVILE WORK,(07/10/6007) 09/22/2007
the only fast day of the year
Tabernacles for 7 days dwell in tents or booths or a “manger”
First day of Tabernacles NO SERVILE WORK, (07/15/6007)
09/27/2007
Feast of Conclusion or The Last Great Day NO SERVILE WORK,
(07/22/6007) 10/04/2007The dates in parenthesis are YHWH's calendar, the other date is our pagen Roman calendar date.
The Sabbath's are noted with NO SERVILE WORK
Even if you don't get it right, like I'm sure I don't, since I am also new to these. I do follow the Sabbath days and I will be putting a tent up in the yard. I plan on eating, doing Scripture studies and sleeping in my tent this year, along with my oldest son who lives here.
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