Sabbath

[kejonn]

Thought I'd start this thread. It seems every every thread lately turns to this subject so we need to redirect those ideas to this thread rather than high-jacking other threads.

So start you revealing you thoughts, along with scriptural references, on when and how the Sabbath should be observed.

[kenrch]

Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 19 2007,14:53)

Thought I'd start this thread. It seems every every thread lately turns to this subject so we need to redirect those ideas to this thread rather than high-jacking other threads. So start you revealing you thoughts, along with scriptural references, on when and how the Sabbath should be observed.

Thanks kejonn.

[kenrch]

There is no doubt that the Sabbath day is on the seventh day Exdos 16.

Scriptures in the NEW TESTAMENT say to keep the commandments of God.

Since Pentecost was fulfilled we have the Holy Spirit to guide us.  Jesus taught that the Law was no longer physical but spiritual, Mat 5:27, 28.  Paul said the  law was spiritual, Rom 7:14.

The Sabbath, because we have the Spirit (unlike the OT people) the Sabbath is personal between you and your Father.

Why would one want to keep the forth commandment wrong?  Scripture says we are guided by the Spirit.

During the other six days we are to do the things we need to do so when the Sabbath arrives so we have the whole day to fellowship with the Father.

God created the seventh day for the purpose of rest and worship.  He did not create seven days then pick one; in addition the seventh day is the only day with a name in the bible. So their is no other day BUT the seventh that has the name Sabbath.  None of the other days are the weekly Sabbath for obvious reasons.

Satan through the Harlot changed the Sabbath day to the first day. Claiming that the first day was the resurrection day of Christ.  This is a lie and there is no scripture to prove their false doctrine.  However Jesus said that the only sign He would give is that He would be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.  There is no way anyone can get three days and three nights from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning.

Do we have to keep the Sabbath?  NO! The Father wants us to do what we want. He does not want sacrifice He wants compassion.  If in your heart you don't want to keep the Sabbath then PLEASE don't it would be a waste of your time and the Father would NOT recognize your fleshly efforts.

IHN&L,

Ken

[Debra]

Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 19 2007,14:53)

Thought I'd start this thread. It seems every every thread lately turns to this subject so we need to redirect those ideas to this thread rather than high-jacking other threads. So start you revealing you thoughts, along with scriptural references, on when and how the Sabbath should be observed.

Hello Kejonn
We must have been posting at the same time. I just posted on the
Tradition thread, re this topic, what happens now?

Debra

[michaels]

saturday GOD rested and said it was good ,this is from sun down friday,until sundown saturday,24 hole hours we get to spend with our father ,in rest ,fellowship,and praise. praise you father, and thank you.

[kenrch]

Quote (Debra @ Aug. 19 2007,15:59)

Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 19 2007,14:53) Thought I'd start this thread. It seems every every thread lately turns to this subject so we need to redirect those ideas to this thread rather than high-jacking other threads. So start you revealing you thoughts, along with scriptural references, on when and how the Sabbath should be observed. Hello Kejonn We must have been posting at the same time. I just posted on the Tradition thread, re this topic, what happens now? Debra

Yes I read your post and LET ME TELL YOU ONE THING! You are SOooooooo Right!!!!

That's what I call putting it on the back burner! THANK YOU!

I did read it right? I almost can't believe it! Never thought I'd be excited for being rejected BUT your heart is RIGHT.

Thanks again!

Ken

[Debra]

Hello Ken
Rejected?
We're not in sinc with our posting.
I just read your views and I totally agree with what you say, we aren't divided, after all that's great.
Now here's something I'm happy to have my armor on for…
If it were possible, given my lifestyle and the fact there is more than me to consider in my decision to have my home run the way I would be happy with including what we ate and how we worshiped as a family where we worshiped and with whom we associated, I would do it as OT as possible, I would live much simpler than I do, I would recognize all the Jewish customs that Jesus kept and keep them myself. I would have fellowship with other believers as often as we came together.
Unfortunately this is not my reality in the world today.
If I were to remove myself from my family and lived far away from them that I couldn't be drawn back, also impossible, then I might have a chance at creating my ideal life, the way I want it to be. But this is what God gave me to work with a family that aren't all saved.
I thank Jesus for making our relationship personal so that I can approach Him 24/7 with my issues.

Deb.

[kenrch]

Quote (Debra @ Aug. 19 2007,16:59)

Hello Ken Rejected? We're not in sinc with our posting. I just read your views and I totally agree with what you say, we aren't divided, after all that's great. Now here's something I'm happy to have my armor on for… If it were possible, given my lifestyle and the fact there is more than me to consider in my decision to have my home run the way I would be happy with including what we ate and how we worshiped as a family where we worshiped and with whom we associated, I would do it as OT as possible, I would live much simpler than I do, I would recognize all the Jewish customs that Jesus kept and keep them myself. I would have fellowship with other believers as often as we came together. Unfortunately this is not my reality in the world today. If I were to remove myself from my family and lived far away from them that I couldn't be drawn back, also impossible, then I might have a chance at creating my ideal life, the way I want it to be. But this is what God gave me to work with a family that aren't all saved. I thank Jesus for making our relationship personal so that I can approach Him 24/7 with my issues. Deb.

Deb…..HUH?

[Debra]

I did read it right? I almost can't believe it! Never thought I'd be excited for being rejected BUT your heart is RIGHT.

Thanks again!

Ken

[kenrch]

I tried to post this:

Group: Regular Members
Posts: 170
Joined: Sep. 2006 Posted: Aug. 19 2007,15:53

——————————————————————————–
Hello Kenrch

I think you will find there is a pagan god worshiped on every day of the week.
Satan always presents a counterfeit to everything God made Holy, this is why there is so much confusion within the churches, people are hoodwinked, pastors are deceived, we have to be discerning when it comes to what we except is from God,and even then there is division amongst us still, some say Saturday others from Friday till Sunday, and the mainstream Sunday.
Having said all that I as yet haven't set one full day aside just for God, I include Him in everyday. I know Kenrch you will probably show me scriptures that support what you believe, and I appreciate that someone else might present their evidence in Scripture to support what they believe, I appreciate that also.
Who is right and who is wrong? I don't know both are as strong as each other.
I'm still waiting for that revelation, so until I can be certain I can't just pick one for myself so I'll stay with how it is for me at the moment, I have been praying about this for months and will continue to pray.

Aren't you saying you don't know you are still praying about it?

[Not3in1]

We now have 2 “Sabbath” threads – which one should we use and which one should Heaven lock?

I'm highly interested in this topic. That is, if our two main teacher's can see through the challenges and remain open to teaching without giving in to sarcasm and critical judgement of other's.

Really Laurel, saying I was “babbling” was not very kind. Especially since my posts were at the very least, thoughtfully put together. I am challenging your beliefs. The knee-jerk reaction to belittle is probably what you are feeling, but I ask that you prayerfully consider that I am trying to sort through your beliefs and Ken's – trying to come to a general understanding of what is acceptable and what is not.

[Not3in1]

Ken writes:
Since Pentecost was fulfilled we have the Holy Spirit to guide us.  Jesus taught that the Law was no longer physical but spiritual, Mat 5:27, 28.  Paul said the  law was spiritual, Rom 7:14.
**********************

Ken, you say that Jesus taught the Law is no longer physical but spiritual.  Does this mean that certain Laws are no longer physically enforced (as in how you keep the Sabbath)?  If the Law is not physical anymore, then why does it matter if it's on a certain day or not?

Ken writes:
Do we have to keep the Sabbath?  NO! The Father wants us to do what we want.
**************************

Now let me get this straight, now you say we don't have to keep the Sabbath?  But the 4th Commandment says that we do!  Other Commandments tell us not to murder and not to steal.  Can we choose not to obey those?  Do we have to keep those Commandments if we do not have to keep the Sabbath Commandment?  Does the Father want us to do what we want in regards to the other Commandments or just the Sabbath?  I'm truly confused.  

[charity]

The government that the foundations were rebuilt by were established when; Nehemiah was enthroned as The Govner of Judea and was clearly a seeker wanting to set Moses convent on the throne again; setting up the Sabbaths and entering a curse deliberately. Judah wishes to remain the leaders; and not join as one; to be Israel
As a Law made to follow the Law; sealing its yokes harder unto death; in which Christ came and walked into the generations of the children brought up in what they believed the perfect manner of the Law by Judea; this Mystery Jerusalem under the command of Babylon; to kill any one that did not attend and obey; had built without the stone of  sure mercy of David;covnent
That now the curse of power and strength that has come from this throne of Iniquity is the Law that sayeth follow the Law;
Neh 10:29
They clave to their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God's law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the LORD our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes;
:30  And that we would not give our daughters unto the people of the land, nor take their daughters for our sons: :31  And [if] the people of the land bring ware or any victuals on the sabbath day to sell, [that] we would not buy it of them on the sabbath, or on the holy day: and [that] we would leave the seventh year, and the exaction of every debt.

Now if you call others to this come back under the curse; then you are number with this kingdom;and its Nature you will manifest itself without mercy;which is2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way. WHEN IT IS REVEALED

Now Nehemiah Hated David’s Kingdom; the Kingdom of mercy that Christ had come to raise up the ruins of many generations…Nehemiah was killing people after taking all the birth records out and finding Solomon’s children; David’s grand children
Neh 13:25  And I contended with them, and cursed them, and smote certain of them, and plucked off their hair, and made them swear by God, [saying], Ye shall not give your daughters unto their sons, nor take their daughters unto your sons, or for yourselves.
:26  Did not Solomon king of Israel sin by these things? yet among many nations was there no king like him, who was beloved of his God, and God made him king over all Israel: nevertheless even him did outlandish women cause to sin.
:27  Shall we then hearken unto you to do all this great evil, to transgress against our God in marrying strange wives?

We should escape this kingdoms force?
The Gospal of Luke Has removed Solomon fron the generations of Christ; replaced him with a Nathan;under the inflence of this Kingdom; they have convinced many of us in word to continue their battle against Davids cov; and Moses old cov

charity

[elaine1809]

Laurel, Could you please explain to what this scriptures where reffering to? : Mat 5:27,28 and Romans 7: 14? When I read them I get that it is spiritual I also get that we are not supposed to be judging others if they WANT to keep it physical too. DOES anybody GET THAT? Please Laurel could you answer that? You keep reffering to the old testament as if there was no new testament… I am confuse how you are thinking???

[elaine1809]

sorry I wrote the wrong scriptures. I am reffering to this scriptures: colossians 2:16-19 What does that scripture means to you Laurel?

[elaine1809]

colossians 2: 16-19 SAYS :Colossians 2:15-19 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
[NIV at IBS] [International Bible Society] [NIV at Zondervan] [Zondervan]

15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.[a]

16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to

[elaine1809]

the part were it says: …..do not let anyone judge you… Sabbath day.. ….these are the a shadow of the things to come…. Laurel please share with me your thoughts on those passages, so I can understand where you are coming from Thank you:)

[kenrch]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 19 2007,19:24)

Ken writes: Since Pentecost was fulfilled we have the Holy Spirit to guide us.  Jesus taught that the Law was no longer physical but spiritual, Mat 5:27, 28.  Paul said the  law was spiritual, Rom 7:14. ********************** Ken, you say that Jesus taught the Law is no longer physical but spiritual.  Does this mean that certain Laws are no longer physically enforced (as in how you keep the Sabbath)?  If the Law is not physical anymore, then why does it matter if it's on a certain day or not? Ken writes: Do we have to keep the Sabbath?  NO! The Father wants us to do what we want. ************************** Now let me get this straight, now you say we don't have to keep the Sabbath?  But the 4th Commandment says that we do!  Other Commandments tell us not to murder and not to steal.  Can we choose not to obey those?  Do we have to keep those Commandments if we do not have to keep the Sabbath Commandment?  Does the Father want us to do what we want in regards to the other Commandments or just the Sabbath?  I'm truly confused.

Mandy are you led by the Spirit?

Where the Spirit is there is freedom.

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

Is this freedom to murder…of course NOT!

Do you know that the law is spiritual and no longer on stone?

2Co 3:3 And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

Why should the Sabbath be any different?

YES! God wants you to do as you want not as you are told. He wants your heart NOT your unwilling love. You do what you want. If you want to steal then steal. If you do steal then you are NOT following the Spirit. BUT IT'S YOUR CHOICE!

Let the Law judge I'm not afraid of the Law. I ESTABLISH the Law by keeping it. However is it YOU OR the Law that is judging me, Rom3:31.

You are confused with the OT covenant and the New covenant.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin.
The Old testament people did NOT have the Spirit to guide them. They HAD to go to the letter for instruction.

I have the Spirit of God who wrote the Law. Did the apostles pick corn on the Sabbath or NOT? Why were they allowed to do this? Because the Lord of the Sabbath was right there with them who obviously said it was alright to pick the corn.

Would you have listened to the Lord or the letter of the law?

Do I judge? Or as you say “Ha! it's no fun being judged by the law” The law isn't judging me I keep the forth commandment. The Law finds no fault in me because I keep the forth commandment. Again I establish the law.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish [uphold] the law.

Now the law on the other hand is doing what it is meant to do. It's telling you that you are not keeping the forth commandment. I just gave you the law that says you are NOT keeping it.

First you have to WANT to keep the forth commandment before you find out How to keep the forth commandment. Sort of putting the carriage before the horse.

Do you want to keep the Sabbath? Or do you want to find a reason NOT too?

God won't make you! Again he wants compassion NOT sacrifice.

Before you run you must walk or you will FALL.

Laurel and I disagree on the feasts days. But we agree on the seventh day Sabbath of God.

You can throw the law at me all day long, it doesn't matter because you don't try to keep the forth commandment. Do you establish the law? No you try to tear down the forth commandment looking for excuse why you don't have to keep the Sabbath.

I have given you all the scriptures one needs to understand the Sabbath. But you have to want to understand the Sabbath. If you are confused then wait on the Spirit.

You have sincere questions then I will answer them WITH scripture as I already have done. You disagree OK then we agree that you disagree.

Your beef as you say is that I keep the Sabbath in the NEW Testament Covenant which Covenant are you under. Are you saying that under the New Covenant you don't have to keep the forth commandment or even ALL the commandments.

People get upset when I say you are following the Harlot. Well if you are breaking one of His commandments that the NEW Testament clearly says we should keep. Then who are you following….GOD?

IHN&L,

Ken

[Not3in1]

Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 20 2007,03:33)

You are confused with the OT covenant and the New covenant. Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. The Old testament people did NOT have the Spirit to guide them. They HAD to go to the letter for instruction.

OK, here we go – the above post is the meat of the conversation for me (hidding behind the finger pointing and meaningless accusations). If we can keep to the meat of the teaching, other's will be edified and instructed. Accusing members of not keeping the Sabbath because they do not want to keep the Commandments of God will not bring a desire to embrace the Sabbath (which I assume is your hearts desire and the reason why you are teaching here).

You ask: Am I led by the Spirit? Well, I pray so.

You ask: Do I know the law is spiritual and no longer on stone? Well, no, I don't know because as far as I am aware, the 10 Commandments are still written in stone – safely stored in the Ark of the Covenant.

You say: In Corinthians Paul teaches we are letter from Christ, not written of ink but of God, and not on stone but on our hearts. And you interpret this as God wanting us to do what we want, even in regards to the Sabbath? Well, I'm not sure about this. The Sabbath is a part of the 10 Commandments that are written in stone (and still are written in stone), no where in the NT are we told that these Commandments have been done away with. This passage in Corinthians does not seem to say we have the freedom to determine what Commandments to obey OR what “part” of the Commandments to do away with. It doesn't seem to give us the freedom to determine for ourselves which part of the Commandments are “physical” and which parts are “spiritual”? So my question would be – how do we determine this? By the Spirit?

If by the Spirit, then can one determine what they will about the Commandments? What if someone believes that the Spirit is directing them to murder an anti-Christ believer? They can say that according to the Spirit of God they obeyed the Law. Because the Law is no longer “physical” (meaning, thou shall not kill), but it is “spiritual” (meaning, God told me to take this life to purify the world so the murder is justified). Do you see what I'm saying.

In other words, regarding the Sabbath, the question is really do we keep the Commandment as it is written in stone (keep the day holy and do not do as you wish), OR are we free to not keep it as it is written in stone (keep the day, but do as you wish). Do you see my question? If you do, where can you show me that this written in stone rule has been softened to mean you may keep only the day, but not the rules pertaining to that day.

Whew. I'm exhausted……..

I really am trying to understand this brother's and sister's.

[kenrch]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2007,06:53)

Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 20 2007,03:33) You are confused with the OT covenant and the New covenant. Rom 7:14  For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. The Old testament people did NOT have the Spirit to guide them. They HAD to go to the letter for instruction. OK, here we go – the above post is the meat of the conversation for me (hidding behind the finger pointing and meaningless accusations).  If we can keep to the meat of the teaching, other's will be edified and instructed.  Accusing members of not keeping the Sabbath because they do not want to keep the Commandments of God will not bring a desire to embrace the Sabbath (which I assume is your hearts desire and the reason why you are teaching here). You ask: Am I led by the Spirit?  Well, I pray so. You ask:  Do I know the law is spiritual and no longer on stone?  Well, no, I don't know because as far as I am aware, the 10 Commandments are still written in stone – safely stored in the Ark of the Covenant. You say:  In Corinthians Paul teaches we are letter from Christ, not written of ink but of God, and not on stone but on our hearts.  And you interpret this as God wanting us to do what we want, even in regards to the Sabbath?  Well, I'm not sure about this.  The Sabbath is a part of the 10 Commandments that are written in stone (and still are written in stone), no where in the NT are we told that these Commandments have been done away with.  This passage in Corinthians does not seem to say we have the freedom to determine what Commandments to obey OR what “part” of the Commandments to do away with.  It doesn't seem to give us the freedom to determine for ourselves which part of the Commandments are “physical” and which parts are “spiritual”?  So my question would be – how do we determine this?  By the Spirit?   If by the Spirit, then can one determine what they will about the Commandments?  What if someone believes that the Spirit is directing them to murder an anti-Christ believer?  They can say that according to the Spirit of God they obeyed the Law.  Because the Law is no longer “physical” (meaning, thou shall not kill), but it is “spiritual” (meaning, God told me to take this life to purify the world so the murder is justified).  Do you see what I'm saying. In other words, regarding the Sabbath, the question is really do we keep the Commandment as it is written in stone (keep the day holy and do not do as you wish), OR are we free to not keep it as it is written in stone (keep the day, but do as you wish).  Do you see my question?  If you do, where can you show me that this written in stone rule has been softened to mean you may keep only the day, but not the rules pertaining to that day. Whew.  I'm exhausted……..   I really am trying to understand this brother's and sister's.

How do you say that “Good Grief”

You are free to sin or not to sin. to obey God or not to obey God.

You do what the Spirit wants BUT you have to agree to what the Spirit wants you to do. If you do it because you HAVE to then you belong in the OT.

You can't understand then wait on the Spirit to show you if you have ears to hear.

IFYou are deceived then you have nothing to worry about, just go on with what you are doing BUTIf in your heart you know that you should be keeping the Seventh Day Sabbath of God then you have a problem because you are NOTdoing what the Spirit is telling you.

When you believe that the forth commandment, Seventh day Sabbath of God should be kept let me know otherwise I won't play your little games of cat and mouse.

IFpeople want to believe what you say, that keeping the Sabbath Day is a stumbling block then so be it.

IFpeople believe that I'm judging them and NOTthe law then so be it.

BUTIf anyone is sincere and want to know about the Sabbath then so be it.

In other words you will reap what you sow. So be it!

IHN&LOVE,

Ken

[Author]

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