- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (chosenone @ April 26 2010,07:53) Hi Ed J. Quote Heb.12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great “a cloud of witnesses”,
let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us (Isaiah 5:18-21),
and let us run with patience the (Christian) race that is set before us,The book of 'Hebrews', is wrtten to the Jews, the opening strain shows that this epistle is addressed to Israelites “whose are the fathers” (Ro. 9:5), and who alone had the oracles of God. What you put in brackets… (Christians) is not correct at the time it was written. Just to correct your underatanding.
Quote 1Thess.4:16-17 does NOT infer any 'phony rapture doctrine'!
The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate…
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.I will copy 1Thes.4:15-18 from the “Concordant Version” that IMO is the most accurate translation (a literal word for word).
15 For this we are saying to you by the word of the Lord, that we, the living, who are surviving to the presence of the Lord, should by no means outstrip those who are put to repose,
16 for the Lord Himself will be descending from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the Chief Messenger, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ shall be rising first,
17 Thereupon we, the living who are surviving, shall at the same time be snatched away together with them in clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And thus shall we always be together with the Lord.
18 So that, console one another with these words.If you believe it is a “phoney rapture doctrine” that is your opinion, I do not agree. I would be intersted in what your understanding is of this, not useing “systems of religion and traditions of men communicate… distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit”.
God Bless, Jerry.
Hi Jerry,God's word is correct, it's people's understanding ('a phony rapture doctrine') that are lacking. (Eph:4:14)
I thought what I said to you was clear, but I will elaborate for you to help remove your confusion.Eph.5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest,
and arise from the dead(1Thess.4:16), and Christ shall give thee light.
Rom.8:5: For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh;
but they that (crucified the flesh) are (1Thess.4:17) after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.Isaiah 5:18-21 Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope:
That say, Let him make speed, and hasten his work, that we may see it: and let the counsel of the Holy One
of Israel draw nigh and come, that we may know it! Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil;
that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!Hab.2:Woe to him that coveteth an evil covetousness to his house,
that he may set his nest on high, that he may be delivered from the power of evil!
Thou hast consulted shame to thy house by cutting off many people, and hast sinned against thy soul.
For the stone shall cry out of the wall, and the beam out of the timber shall answer it.If you are still confused on this matter feel free to ask more questions; OK?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgJerry,
Are you starting your own church?
What is it's central tenet? 'Do as you like because, at the end of the day, you will all be saved, anyway'
So, you crucify Christ again. His death for the remission of sin and the offer of salvation, was for nothing?
Even Satan will be saved?
And Judas Iscariot?
And, you also kill the book of Revelation which goes into detailed overview of that which you dispute: Rev 20:14-15,'Then death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.'Jerry, it is not me that you are disputing with. It is God's word, the scriptures, Jesus, the Saints, the Apostles, the Holy Spirit, And God Almighty, Himself.
Ed J.
Quote God's word is correct, it's people's understanding ('a phony rapture doctrine') that are lacking. (Eph:4:14)
I thought what I said to you was clear, but I will elaborate for you to help remove your confusion.Ed, the book of Ephesians, if read it in the context of the whole book, does clearly show what we should strive for, as you correctly state. What you have seemed to misunderstood, is the fact that we, mankind, cannot do it, we are of the 'flesh'. We need the Holy Spirit of God, Him working in us to accomplish this. It is clearly stated in the first chapter.
Remember, God, and His “chosen people”, were given the “Law” and the “Old Covenant” that explicitly laid out what they were to do to 'enter the promised land'. “THEY COULD NOT DO IT”!!! Now you seem to feel that we can accomplish what they couldn't, that is claim a rightiousness by our own 'works'.
Now God, has graciously given us a covenant of “Grace”. This is not of “US” but of Him through His Son, Christ Jesus.
Now if we can just realise, we are saved by “Grace”, not of our “works”, and Give praise and Glory to God, and not ourselves, we will quit patting ourselves on the back, and Give God the glory He deserves.God Bless, Jerry.
Quote (chosenone @ April 27 2010,07:05) Ed J. Quote God's word is correct, it's people's understanding ('a phony rapture doctrine') that are lacking. (Eph:4:14)
I thought what I said to you was clear, but I will elaborate for you to help remove your confusion.Ed, the book of Ephesians, if read it in the context of the whole book, does clearly show what we should strive for, as you correctly state. What you have seemed to misunderstood, is the fact that we, mankind, cannot do it, we are of the 'flesh'. We need the Holy Spirit of God, Him working in us to accomplish this. It is clearly stated in the first chapter.
Remember, God, and His “chosen people”, were given the “Law” and the “Old Covenant” that explicitly laid out what they were to do to 'enter the promised land'. “THEY COULD NOT DO IT”!!! Now you seem to feel that we can accomplish what they couldn't, that is claim a rightiousness by our own 'works'.
Now God, has graciously given us a covenant of “Grace”. This is not of “US” but of Him through His Son, Christ Jesus.
Now if we can just realise, we are saved by “Grace”, not of our “works”, and Give praise and Glory to God, and not ourselves, we will quit patting ourselves on the back, and Give God the glory He deserves.God Bless, Jerry.
Hi Jerry,What point are you trying to make to me; what do I misunderstand according to 'your' thinking?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgJA.
Quote Are you starting your own church? No, the ecclesia (church) is chosen by God, not us.
Quote What is it's central tenet? 'Do as you like because, at the end of the day, you will all be saved, anyway'
No, not I, it is you who is “doing as you like”, because you feel your 'works' will save you.
I believe that it is “God” through His Son, who saves us.Quote Even Satan will be saved?
And Judas Iscariot?
Yes.Quote Jerry, it is not me that you are disputing with. It is God's word, the scriptures, Jesus, the Saints, the Apostles, the Holy Spirit, And God Almighty, Himself. You fail to post scripture that explicitly says that some will go to “Hell”. The 'lake of fire' is the second death (Rev.20:14), it is NOT eternal.
It is God, through His Son, that is the saviour of all mankind.(1Tim.4:9-11)
We have no part in our salvation
God Bless, Jerry.
Hi CO,
Are you confident that you will be saved by this blind and selective intellectual derivation of scripture?
It sounds a fond hope this leaf blowing in the wind theory but will it sustain you on your deathbed?Quote Hi Jerry, What point are you trying to make to me; what do I misunderstand according to 'your' thinking?
God bless
Ed JHi Ed J. In as few words as possible… It is God, through Christ Jesus, who saves us.
Not any “works” that we do.
God Bless, Jerry.
Quote (chosenone @ April 27 2010,08:09) Quote Hi Jerry, What point are you trying to make to me; what do I misunderstand according to 'your' thinking?
God bless
Ed JHi Ed J. In as few words as possible… It is God, through Christ Jesus, who saves us.
Not any “works” that we do.
God Bless, Jerry.
Hi Jerry,What caused you to think that I didn't know this?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgJerry,
… ….. ….. I just spent a little time trying to think what to say to your last post to me.
Um, YES, It is God who saves through Jesus … Is this a trick?You seem really confused. You know there is a saying “Those who God wishes to destroy – he first makes them mad!” – Like Saul.
LU, How ironic is that, eh?
You accuse me of self-saving — I NEVER THINK THAT – Have you seen my post to Mikeboll64 – Have you read my other posts – Never have I alluded to anything like that – Most posters claim Heavenly rest because they read teh scriptures and attribute that which the Saints and apostles write about themselves to themselves – NOT SO ME – I DO UNDERSTAND that those ARE THE ELECT – ALL others attain such heady heights BY THE GRACE OF GOD THROUGH CHRIST – This is what I say – This is What I have always said…
Faith first, then works – I wrote a post on that – I wrote that, again, to Martian only yesterday – how dare you accuse me?!?
(Or maybe it is just part of your madness – Jerry, I will need to forgive you, if you will accept my forgiveness!)You are warned, Jerry, that – Just in case – If my writing is by the Holy Spirit – then what jerry – Then What? I grant you time to search the Scriptures for that answer……
Quote (chosenone @ April 24 2010,00:06) JA.
You have closed your mind to anything other than “only some will be saved, the rest will be eternally condemned”.
COI do not agree with you on a lot, but I do agree with you on this one. I don't have a lot of time to get into this because of a couple of debates going on but I will say this…
Jesus said “he left the 90 and 9 to save the one. Thats 100 percent. Jesus will not fail.
Scriptures also tell us he died for the sin of the world. If any goes into eternal punishment that would mean God failed in his plan of redemption.
The judgment o God is always with mercy. God is all powerfull and a God of love.
The wicked and false doctine of eternal punishment is a lie because of the above but also because the punishment would not equal the crime.
God is a just God. The wages of sin is death, not eternal punishment.
WJ
Hi WJ,
Speculation based on logic, and wrong application of scriptures written to the saved, has never been helpful.If it is difficult for the righteous to be saved what will happen to the godless?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 27 2010,09:49) Quote (chosenone @ April 24 2010,00:06) JA.
You have closed your mind to anything other than “only some will be saved, the rest will be eternally condemned”.
COI do not agree with you on a lot, but I do agree with you on this one. I don't have a lot of time to get into this because of a couple of debates going on but I will say this…
Jesus said “he left the 90 and 9 to save the one. Thats 100 percent. Jesus will not fail.
Scriptures also tell us he died for the sin of the world. If any goes into eternal punishment that would mean God failed in his plan of redemption.
The judgment o God is always with mercy. God is all powerfull and a God of love.
The wicked and false doctine of eternal punishment is a lie because of the above but also because the punishment would not equal the crime.
God is a just God. The wages of sin is death, not eternal punishment.
WJ
Hi WJ.
Thanks WJ, I needed that. Of course we all disagree on many scriptural things, as seen in this website. But there is no need to claim 'I have all the truth' and insult others that do not agree. I admit, I have not always been polite to those that are that way to me, but I should know better, and apologise to those that I have done so.God Bless, Jerry.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 26 2010,17:49) Quote (chosenone @ April 24 2010,00:06) JA.
You have closed your mind to anything other than “only some will be saved, the rest will be eternally condemned”.
COI do not agree with you on a lot, but I do agree with you on this one. I don't have a lot of time to get into this because of a couple of debates going on but I will say this…
Jesus said “he left the 90 and 9 to save the one. Thats 100 percent. Jesus will not fail.
Scriptures also tell us he died for the sin of the world. If any goes into eternal punishment that would mean God failed in his plan of redemption.
The judgment o God is always with mercy. God is all powerfull and a God of love.
The wicked and false doctine of eternal punishment is a lie because of the above but also because the punishment would not equal the crime.
God is a just God. The wages of sin is death, not eternal punishment.
WJ
COI might also add that so many are accusative of the Trinitarians for holding on to a truth that the RCC believes in, yet at the same time many of those same ones hold on to this heretical view of “Eternal Punishment” which is a mid evil adaptation designed to “scare” people into getting saved.
THE HEATHEN INVENTED THE DOCTRINE OF ENDLESS PUNISHMENT – SHOWN BY THEIR OWN CONFESSIONS.
Any one at all familiar with the writings of the ancient Greeks or Romans, cannot fail to note how often it is admitted by them that the national religions were the inventions of the legislator and the priest, for the purpose of governing and restraining the common people. Hence, all the early lawgivers claim to have had communications with the gods, who aided them in the preparation of their codes. Zoroaster claimed to have received his laws from a divine source; Lycurgus obtained his from Apollo, Minos of Crete from Jupiter, Numa of Rome from Egeria, Zaleucus from Minerva, &c. The object of this sacred fraud was to impress the minds of the multitude with religious awe, and command a more ready obedience on their part. Hence Augustine says, in his “City of God,” “This seems to have been done on no other account, but as it was the business of princes, out of their wisdom and civil prudence, to deceive the people in their religion; princes, under the name of religion, persuaded the people to believe those things true, which they themselves knew to be idle fables; by this means, for their own ease in government, tying them the more closely to civil society.” B. iV 32.
Of course, in order to secure obedience, they were obliged to invent divine punishments for the disobedience of what they asserted to be divine laws. “Hence,” says Bishop Warburton, “they enforced the belief of a future state of rewards and punishments by every sort of contrivance.” And speaking of the addition of metempsychosis, or the transmigration of souls, he says: “This was an ingenious solution, invented by the Egyptian lawgivers, to remove all doubts concerning the moral attributes of God.” Source
Anyone who has children knows that no matter what evil they had committed a true parent would not even think of putting eternal punishment on them.
How is it that people believe an all powerfull all loving God could do this?
To make our Heavenly Father out to being such a monstrous figure is sick indeed.
Surly Gods wrath is a serious thing and his day of vengence will be sever, but eternal punishment in the most excruciation pain that could not even be imagined, goes way beyond Gods wrath and in fact would make God unjust because the penalty far exceeds the crime!
WJ
WJ.
A very interesting article on eternal punishment. I agree, would a loving God subject anyone in His creation to endless punishment for deeds he did in his lifetime?
I have read many of your posts over time, and I'm sure we differ on some things, but it is of no use to insult or degrade another just over a difference of opinion. Yes, I have done so myself sometimes, and feel ashamed now that I have. By the grace of God, in the future, I will try not to do so.God Bless, Jerry.
JA.
Quote I just spent a little time trying to think what to say to your last post to me.
Um, YES, It is God who saves through Jesus … Is this a trick?No, I don't believe God resorts to tricks.
Quote You seem really confused. You know there is a saying “Those who God wishes to destroy – he first makes them mad!” – Like Saul. Confused? No, I don't think so. But please show scripture.
Quote You accuse me of self-saving — I NEVER THINK THAT I would appreciate your version of “how you are saved”. A brief descripion would be welcome.
Quote You are warned, Jerry, that – Just in case – If my writing is by the Holy Spirit – then what jerry – Then What? I grant you time to search the Scriptures for that answer…… I'm not sure what to make of this staement, would you clarify it for me please?
God Bless, Jerry.
WJ,
Very subtle, you are!
Where in the quote from me do I say, 'Eternal Punishment'?
Are you that desperate for something to say against me that you need to invent things.
Death, IS, 'Eternal Condemned', I guess then you agree.
Ok, did you just kneejerk? I forgive you. Accepted?
But, do you see, through that lie, you gave undue impetus to CO.
By the way, 'Eternal Punishment' does not mean 'eternal torture'.
Yes, you are right, though, that wrong minded people teach this to scare others into believing their version of the Scriptures.
But, you ascribe me to be one of such people.
WJ, Gentle Giant, Mighty God, how so?Eternal punishment means, simply, that the spirit is deprived eternally of God's sustainence, becomes nonExistent for eternity. There is no torture involved. The 'knashing of teeth' picture, figuratively, as spirits don't have teeth nor feel physical pain…, is to convey a sense of what the spirit will, figuratively, in human terms, experience in the knowledge that they are to be no more…and then they are NOT, for ever more.
WJ, why do I feel that you didn't really believe what you wrote was a valid accusation against me? Nor did you believe anything such thing yourself but posted it to be encourage another to be malicious?
CO,
You have been decieved by WJ.
He has come as an angel of light, see how it feels when that hand was offered you, and you accepted it.
Now read back following my response and Choose One other hand, so I can call you 'brother'.
Quote (Ed J @ April 27 2010,07:15) Quote (chosenone @ April 27 2010,07:05) Ed J. Quote God's word is correct, it's people's understanding ('a phony rapture doctrine') that are lacking. (Eph:4:14)
I thought what I said to you was clear, but I will elaborate for you to help remove your confusion.Ed, the book of Ephesians, if read it in the context of the whole book, does clearly show what we should strive for, as you correctly state. What you have seemed to misunderstood, is the fact that we, mankind, cannot do it, we are of the 'flesh'. We need the Holy Spirit of God, Him working in us to accomplish this. It is clearly stated in the first chapter.
Remember, God, and His “chosen people”, were given the “Law” and the “Old Covenant” that explicitly laid out what they were to do to 'enter the promised land'. “THEY COULD NOT DO IT”!!! Now you seem to feel that we can accomplish what they couldn't, that is claim a rightiousness by our own 'works'.
Now God, has graciously given us a covenant of “Grace”. This is not of “US” but of Him through His Son, Christ Jesus.
Now if we can just realise, we are saved by “Grace”, not of our “works”, and Give praise and Glory to God, and not ourselves, we will quit patting ourselves on the back, and Give God the glory He deserves.God Bless, Jerry.
Hi Jerry,What point are you trying to make to me; what do I misunderstand according to 'your' thinking?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Bump for JerryJerry,
The 'trick' was not about God, but about you!You write the Truth in the middle of untruth.
This is 'classic'. Not saying you meant it, but even so.
Come near and listen to this.
When reading, conversing, discussing, debating… There is an art taught by the arch deciever.That art is this: Mix Salt (Truth, for good taste) with Sand (False,Abrasive) and then give it to your opponent.
If he throws the sand away then he also throws the Salt away, also.
Offer you opponent a meal later, but without Salt, and when he says 'aghh, yuk, this is tasteless, please pass the Salt', you say, 'Ah, but you threw it away, saying it was abrasive to you, sorry'.
Jerry, I am amazed every time I read your posts. Are you saying that you have never heard that saying 'Those that God desires to destroy, first he makes them mad!'?
Jerry, please just enter the quote into your Internet search engine. The Internet is littered with explanation and postings. It is not something I made up. I didn't even google it before posting to you.
Jerry, I never claimed to be saved. Where, in anything I have written, do I say that I am saved?
What I do say is that there is the Hope of being saved, through Salvation, by believing in God and Christ, and the Word of God brought by Jesus concerning God, his heavenly Father. That being saved is by the Grace of God, through Christ.
That….read my post to Mikeboll64 in Echad and Elohym (page 11, 05:55).
I also wrote the same in longer format to Karmarie, to include 'Paradise' earth, for the majority of believers, saved by grace.
Grace, by Jesus, from God. Let he who judges, decide, not I, for how can I judge myself?
Many will come saying 'Lord (Jesus) did we not do and say this and that, in your name. But he will say unto them, 'get away from me, I never knew you!'Jerry, do I have to quote chapter and verse for you? Do you REALLY need teaching? Remember, I made the offer!
Homework, Jerry: What does Jesus mean by 'Get away from me, I never knew you!'?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
