- This topic is empty.
- Posts
LU,
Quote I do not see Jesus as the remnant because He never stopped serving God but the remnant apparently had in that verse since it say 'shall again take root downwards…' I am speaking of a type and Jesus is the remnant that gives root to Jesse again but not the one or ones that gave root to Jesse previously. He gives root to Jesse by his righteousness.
Romans 5:18-19
King James Version (KJV)18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.Quote (abe @ Mar. 06 2013,23:32) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2013,17:44) Quote (abe @ Mar. 06 2013,15:41) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2013,12:28) abe,
In this verse do you see one God with another God? Or do you see one God with Himself?John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Hi LU,And the word is God.
No. The word was God.
Peace sister..
Hi abe,
I believe that the 'was' is there instead of 'is' because the emphasis is to say that even in the beginning the Word was God and didn't become God at a later time.I don't believe that the Word 'was' God and then stopped being God.
Jesus said 'I am' the Root AND the Shoot.
Jesus said 'I am' not 'was' the Root.
Rev 22:16
“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
Hi LU,Why did God say he was in the beginning?
Peace sister.
Hi abe,
Was your question:
Why did God say the Word was in the beginning?
or
Why did God say that He, Himself was in the beginning?Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 07 2013,06:29) LU, Quote I do not see Jesus as the remnant because He never stopped serving God but the remnant apparently had in that verse since it say 'shall again take root downwards…' I am speaking of a type and Jesus is the remnant that gives root to Jesse again but not the one or ones that gave root to Jesse previously. He gives root to Jesse by his righteousness.
Romans 5:18-19
King James Version (KJV)18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Hi Kerwin,
I don't understand 'gives root to…' as the same as 'taking root downward.' I understand 'taking root downward' more as growing in love and knowledge of God.I see 'bearing fruit upward' as the result of growing in love and knowledge of God, i.e the branch flowers.
I would agree that Jesus' righteousness bears fruit of eternal life in those who believe in Him.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 07 2013,00:53) LU, no I do not see.
Quote But what is the root of Jesse from Isaiah 11: 1A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse;
from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.
2The Spirit of the Lord will rest on him—
the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding,
the Spirit of counsel and of power,
the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord—
Who or whose are “his” and “him” respectively?
I believe the strongest case was the one I gave you earlier.
“his” could instead be Jesse and Jesus the Branch. In that case the “him” in verse 2 is the Branch.
What pronoun or label do you believe is Yawheh?
I do agree that the 'his' is Jesse and/or Jesse's descendants and the Branch is Jesus. Also, I agree that the 'him' in verse 2 is the Branch.The word 'roots' is what I believe is YHVH as a plural entity.
One of the roots becomes the shoot/Branch, also.
Imo.
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 08 2013,09:06) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 07 2013,06:29) LU, Quote I do not see Jesus as the remnant because He never stopped serving God but the remnant apparently had in that verse since it say 'shall again take root downwards…' I am speaking of a type and Jesus is the remnant that gives root to Jesse again but not the one or ones that gave root to Jesse previously. He gives root to Jesse by his righteousness.
Romans 5:18-19
King James Version (KJV)18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Hi Kerwin,
I don't understand 'gives root to…' as the same as 'taking root downward.' I understand 'taking root downward' more as growing in love and knowledge of God.I see 'bearing fruit upward' as the result of growing in love and knowledge of God, i.e the branch flowers.
I would agree that Jesus' righteousness bears fruit of eternal life in those who believe in Him.
LU,I was going by the idea that the previous house of Jesse was uprooted because of its sins. The kings that sat on David's throne being the previous roots.
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 07 2013,18:58) Quote (abe @ Mar. 06 2013,23:32) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2013,17:44) Quote (abe @ Mar. 06 2013,15:41) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2013,12:28) abe,
In this verse do you see one God with another God? Or do you see one God with Himself?John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Hi LU,And the word is God.
No. The word was God.
Peace sister..
Hi abe,
I believe that the 'was' is there instead of 'is' because the emphasis is to say that even in the beginning the Word was God and didn't become God at a later time.I don't believe that the Word 'was' God and then stopped being God.
Jesus said 'I am' the Root AND the Shoot.
Jesus said 'I am' not 'was' the Root.
Rev 22:16
“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
Hi LU,Why did God say he was in the beginning?
Peace sister.
Hi abe,
Was your question:
Why did God say the Word was in the beginning?
or
Why did God say that He, Himself was in the beginning?
Hi LU,Why did he say; He was in the beginning?
Peace sister.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 07 2013,23:32) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 08 2013,09:06) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 07 2013,06:29) LU, Quote I do not see Jesus as the remnant because He never stopped serving God but the remnant apparently had in that verse since it say 'shall again take root downwards…' I am speaking of a type and Jesus is the remnant that gives root to Jesse again but not the one or ones that gave root to Jesse previously. He gives root to Jesse by his righteousness.
Romans 5:18-19
King James Version (KJV)18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Hi Kerwin,
I don't understand 'gives root to…' as the same as 'taking root downward.' I understand 'taking root downward' more as growing in love and knowledge of God.I see 'bearing fruit upward' as the result of growing in love and knowledge of God, i.e the branch flowers.
I would agree that Jesus' righteousness bears fruit of eternal life in those who believe in Him.
LU,I was going by the idea that the previous house of Jesse was uprooted because of its sins. The kings that sat on David's throne being the previous roots.
Hi Kerwin,
I don't recall reading that Jesse's house was ever 'uprooted' can you show me that scripture? I just read that Jesse's stump had roots which brought forth a Branch. If it were uprooted, then it would die. However, a stump in the ground with the roots also in the ground and intact could bring forth a shoot out of the seemingly dead stump. I am speaking metaphorically here.Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 08 2013,10:55) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 07 2013,23:32) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 08 2013,09:06) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 07 2013,06:29) LU, Quote I do not see Jesus as the remnant because He never stopped serving God but the remnant apparently had in that verse since it say 'shall again take root downwards…' I am speaking of a type and Jesus is the remnant that gives root to Jesse again but not the one or ones that gave root to Jesse previously. He gives root to Jesse by his righteousness.
Romans 5:18-19
King James Version (KJV)18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Hi Kerwin,
I don't understand 'gives root to…' as the same as 'taking root downward.' I understand 'taking root downward' more as growing in love and knowledge of God.I see 'bearing fruit upward' as the result of growing in love and knowledge of God, i.e the branch flowers.
I would agree that Jesus' righteousness bears fruit of eternal life in those who believe in Him.
LU,I was going by the idea that the previous house of Jesse was uprooted because of its sins. The kings that sat on David's throne being the previous roots.
Hi Kerwin,
I don't recall reading that Jesse's house was ever 'uprooted' can you show me that scripture? I just read that Jesse's stump had roots which brought forth a Branch. If it were uprooted, then it would die. However, a stump in the ground with the roots also in the ground and intact could bring forth a shoot out of the seemingly dead stump. I am speaking metaphorically here.
LU,The kingship no longer rests in the hands of the house of Solomon, a root of Jesse. They were uprooted during the Babylonian exile and never took root again; even during the second Temple period.
Kerwin, if you don't mind me asking, How long have you been studying scripture for?
The reason I ask is because…. I have not read the OT from beginning to end, though I have the NT. It appears that you have, maybe?Quote (2besee @ Mar. 08 2013,15:51) Kerwin, if you don't mind me asking, How long have you been studying scripture for?
The reason I ask is because…. I have not read the OT from beginning to end, though I have the NT. It appears that you have, maybe?
2beesee,I have been looking into these things for around 2 decades. I have randomly flipped to Scriptures, letting God determine where I stopped. I was later moved to read through the NT a number of times but am currently going through the OT, where I just finished Daniel and started Hosea.
I have also had my ups and downs during that period.
I also have looked into Jewish doctrines of the First Century and before. Some times I look at later ones when I cannot find the earlier ones or when I hope to obtain a monotheistic point of view on Scripture.
I learn a lot through discussion and hearing the viewpoints of others as it proofs my teachings. Most viewpoints are lacking in knowledge but even then they show that something they get. Sometimes they get it better than I do. You have to listen to God, in any way he choose to speak, even if it is a corrupt high priest, John 11:49-51.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 08 2013,04:46) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 08 2013,10:55) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 07 2013,23:32) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 08 2013,09:06) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 07 2013,06:29) LU, Quote I do not see Jesus as the remnant because He never stopped serving God but the remnant apparently had in that verse since it say 'shall again take root downwards…' I am speaking of a type and Jesus is the remnant that gives root to Jesse again but not the one or ones that gave root to Jesse previously. He gives root to Jesse by his righteousness.
Romans 5:18-19
King James Version (KJV)18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Hi Kerwin,
I don't understand 'gives root to…' as the same as 'taking root downward.' I understand 'taking root downward' more as growing in love and knowledge of God.I see 'bearing fruit upward' as the result of growing in love and knowledge of God, i.e the branch flowers.
I would agree that Jesus' righteousness bears fruit of eternal life in those who believe in Him.
LU,I was going by the idea that the previous house of Jesse was uprooted because of its sins. The kings that sat on David's throne being the previous roots.
Hi Kerwin,
I don't recall reading that Jesse's house was ever 'uprooted' can you show me that scripture? I just read that Jesse's stump had roots which brought forth a Branch. If it were uprooted, then it would die. However, a stump in the ground with the roots also in the ground and intact could bring forth a shoot out of the seemingly dead stump. I am speaking metaphorically here.
LU,The kingship no longer rests in the hands of the house of Solomon, a root of Jesse. They were uprooted during the Babylonian exile and never took root again; even during the second Temple period.
Hi Kerwin,
Where is Solomon or any king of Judah said to be a root of Jesse?Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 08 2013,06:22) Quote (2besee @ Mar. 08 2013,15:51) Kerwin, if you don't mind me asking, How long have you been studying scripture for?
The reason I ask is because…. I have not read the OT from beginning to end, though I have the NT. It appears that you have, maybe?
2beesee,I have been looking into these things for around 2 decades. I have randomly flipped to Scriptures, letting God determine where I stopped. I was later moved to read through the NT a number of times but am currently going through the OT, where I just finished Daniel and started Hosea.
I have also had my ups and downs during that period.
I also have looked into Jewish doctrines of the First Century and before. Some times I look at later ones when I cannot find the earlier ones or when I hope to obtain a monotheistic point of view on Scripture.
I learn a lot through discussion and hearing the viewpoints of others as it proofs my teachings. Most viewpoints are lacking in knowledge but even then they show that something they get. Sometimes they get it better than I do. You have to listen to God, in any way he choose to speak, even if it is a corrupt high priest, John 11:49-51.
Good post Kerwin. When reading through Hosea, tell me who is 'as the Lion of Judah,' according to Hosea. Thanks!
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 09 2013,01:46) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 08 2013,04:46) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 08 2013,10:55) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 07 2013,23:32) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 08 2013,09:06) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 07 2013,06:29) LU, Quote I do not see Jesus as the remnant because He never stopped serving God but the remnant apparently had in that verse since it say 'shall again take root downwards…' I am speaking of a type and Jesus is the remnant that gives root to Jesse again but not the one or ones that gave root to Jesse previously. He gives root to Jesse by his righteousness.
Romans 5:18-19
King James Version (KJV)18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Hi Kerwin,
I don't understand 'gives root to…' as the same as 'taking root downward.' I understand 'taking root downward' more as growing in love and knowledge of God.I see 'bearing fruit upward' as the result of growing in love and knowledge of God, i.e the branch flowers.
I would agree that Jesus' righteousness bears fruit of eternal life in those who believe in Him.
LU,I was going by the idea that the previous house of Jesse was uprooted because of its sins. The kings that sat on David's throne being the previous roots.
Hi Kerwin,
I don't recall reading that Jesse's house was ever 'uprooted' can you show me that scripture? I just read that Jesse's stump had roots which brought forth a Branch. If it were uprooted, then it would die. However, a stump in the ground with the roots also in the ground and intact could bring forth a shoot out of the seemingly dead stump. I am speaking metaphorically here.
LU,The kingship no longer rests in the hands of the house of Solomon, a root of Jesse. They were uprooted during the Babylonian exile and never took root again; even during the second Temple period.
Hi Kerwin,
Where is Solomon or any king of Judah said to be a root of Jesse?
LU,Do you want the exact words or the idea?
Quote Definition of UPROOT
1
: to remove as if by pulling up
2
: to pull up by the roots
3
: to displace from a country or traditional habitat
— up·root·ed·ness noun
— up·root·er noun
Examples of UPROOTMany trees were uprooted by the storm.
Will we ever be able to uproot racial prejudice?
Taking the job would mean uprooting my family.Was Jesse uprooted when they were forcefully moved to Babylon?
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 07 2013,18:58) Quote (abe @ Mar. 06 2013,23:32) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2013,17:44) Quote (abe @ Mar. 06 2013,15:41) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 06 2013,12:28) abe,
In this verse do you see one God with another God? Or do you see one God with Himself?John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Hi LU,And the word is God.
No. The word was God.
Peace sister..
Hi abe,
I believe that the 'was' is there instead of 'is' because the emphasis is to say that even in the beginning the Word was God and didn't become God at a later time.I don't believe that the Word 'was' God and then stopped being God.
Jesus said 'I am' the Root AND the Shoot.
Jesus said 'I am' not 'was' the Root.
Rev 22:16
“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
Hi LU,Why did God say he was in the beginning?
Peace sister.
Hi abe,
Was your question:
Why did God say the Word was in the beginning?
or
Why did God say that He, Himself was in the beginning?
Hi LU,Why did God say the word was in the beginning?
Peace sister..
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 09 2013,00:22) Quote (2besee @ Mar. 08 2013,15:51) Kerwin, if you don't mind me asking, How long have you been studying scripture for?
The reason I ask is because…. I have not read the OT from beginning to end, though I have the NT. It appears that you have, maybe?
2beesee,I have been looking into these things for around 2 decades. I have randomly flipped to Scriptures, letting God determine where I stopped. I was later moved to read through the NT a number of times but am currently going through the OT, where I just finished Daniel and started Hosea.
I have also had my ups and downs during that period.
I also have looked into Jewish doctrines of the First Century and before. Some times I look at later ones when I cannot find the earlier ones or when I hope to obtain a monotheistic point of view on Scripture.
I learn a lot through discussion and hearing the viewpoints of others as it proofs my teachings. Most viewpoints are lacking in knowledge but even then they show that something they get. Sometimes they get it better than I do. You have to listen to God, in any way he choose to speak, even if it is a corrupt high priest, John 11:49-51.
Thank you Kerwin.
Well, I think that i have a lot to learn – even though I speak as if I know it all
but really I am only learning, in some things – though there are other things where I know that I have it right, or at least I feel that I do.Thanks.
Quote (abe @ Mar. 09 2013,18:22) Why did God say the word was in the beginning?
Hi Abe, here's why…Ho Logos = Spirit
“And the “Spirit” of God moved upon the face of the waters.” (Gen 1:2)
“the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit” (John 6:63)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Mar. 09 2013,00:12) Quote (abe @ Mar. 09 2013,18:22) Why did God say the word was in the beginning?
Hi Abe, here's why…Ho Logos = Spirit
“And the “Spirit” of God moved upon the face of the waters.” (Gen 1:2)
“the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit” (John 6:63)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed,Jn.1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Was there truth in the world before Jesus Christ?
Peace brother..
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 09 2013,01:55) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 09 2013,01:46) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 08 2013,04:46) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 08 2013,10:55) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 07 2013,23:32) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 08 2013,09:06) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 07 2013,06:29) LU, Quote I do not see Jesus as the remnant because He never stopped serving God but the remnant apparently had in that verse since it say 'shall again take root downwards…' I am speaking of a type and Jesus is the remnant that gives root to Jesse again but not the one or ones that gave root to Jesse previously. He gives root to Jesse by his righteousness.
Romans 5:18-19
King James Version (KJV)18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Hi Kerwin,
I don't understand 'gives root to…' as the same as 'taking root downward.' I understand 'taking root downward' more as growing in love and knowledge of God.I see 'bearing fruit upward' as the result of growing in love and knowledge of God, i.e the branch flowers.
I would agree that Jesus' righteousness bears fruit of eternal life in those who believe in Him.
LU,I was going by the idea that the previous house of Jesse was uprooted because of its sins. The kings that sat on David's throne being the previous roots.
Hi Kerwin,
I don't recall reading that Jesse's house was ever 'uprooted' can you show me that scripture? I just read that Jesse's stump had roots which brought forth a Branch. If it were uprooted, then it would die. However, a stump in the ground with the roots also in the ground and intact could bring forth a shoot out of the seemingly dead stump. I am speaking metaphorically here.
LU,The kingship no longer rests in the hands of the house of Solomon, a root of Jesse. They were uprooted during the Babylonian exile and never took root again; even during the second Temple period.
Hi Kerwin,
Where is Solomon or any king of Judah said to be a root of Jesse?
LU,Do you want the exact words or the idea?
Quote Definition of UPROOT
1
: to remove as if by pulling up
2
: to pull up by the roots
3
: to displace from a country or traditional habitat
— up·root·ed·ness noun
— up·root·er noun
Examples of UPROOTMany trees were uprooted by the storm.
Will we ever be able to uproot racial prejudice?
Taking the job would mean uprooting my family.Was Jesse uprooted when they were forcefully moved to Babylon?
Kerwin,
When something is uprooted, the roots go with the rest of the plant. The roots are not the kings that came from Jesse. The roots have to do with what supported Jesse and the kings from his line. Can you see this?When the Jews were taken captive, they still had their God and hoped in Him, i.e remember the three in the fiery furnace and the lions den.
Of course, the Jews have also played the harlot and gone after other gods but their true roots (Creator-the Father through the Son by the Spirit) has always been faithful to the Jews and the result of the house of Jesse's faithful roots is the root that became also the shoot or Branch…Jesus the Messiah.
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 09 2013,03:12) Quote (abe @ Mar. 09 2013,18:22) Why did God say the word was in the beginning?
Hi Abe, here's why…Ho Logos = Spirit
“And the “Spirit” of God moved upon the face of the waters.” (Gen 1:2)
“the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit” (John 6:63)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed,
I have no idea why you use this scripture (John 6:63) in support of your theory:Ho Logos = Spirit
This is why I don't think you can use that (John 6:63) to support your theory.
The Greek for 'word' in this verse is not 'ho logos' and the verse does not end in the word 'spirit.' The Greek for 'word' is from rhema, not logos. The verse says that the rhema is spirit AND life, not just spirit.
John 6:63
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words (rhema not logos) that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.God bless!
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
