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barely……………….Amen Brother. Mike reminds me of a person who strains out a gnat and swallows a Camel. These preexistences do every bit as much damage to the Kingdom of GOD as Trinitarians, they are SEPARATIST WHO SEPARATE OUR IDENTITY WITH JESUS AS A HUMAN BEING AND THEREBY DENY THE WORK OF GOD IN MANKIND, by denying His work in Christ Jesus. They are not only against Christ but against GODS work in Him as a pure human being (PERFECTED) by the one and only true GOD, by the CHRISTOS that was ON HIM and in HIM. They obscure the image of Jesus and create a false image of Him. 2 Ths 2….> They create the LIE spoken of, BY distorting the (IMAGE) of Jesus and tunning Him into A Man of Sin, which he will abolish at His return as spoken of there. There is NO real MAN of SIN , it is a FALSE (IMAGE) ABOUT JESUS, created by Preexistences and Trinitarians, Who display or Portray him different then US.
peace and love to you and yours barley……………………………gene
Quote (barley @ Sep. 26 2010,23:41) Ed J and Mikeboll, You will see that God has described himself as the Holy Spirit and that the gift of eternal life,
righteousness, it actually what is called the gift from God to us, holy spirit.until then,
barley
Hi Barley,Whatever we may disagree upon is eclipsed by this
all important “Bible Truth” we both clearly do agree upon!Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 26 2010,03:03) Mike do you see any difference in Jesus being a son of GOD as we are, YES YOU DO,
Hi Gene,You are right, I DO see a difference. But I am in good company:
Matt 16:13-18 NIV
13When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”15″But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
Gene, do you notice how the “other people” thought Jesus was maybe a prophet, but other than that he was EXACTLY LIKE THEM? This is you Gene. You are one of those “other people” who thought Jesus was exactly the same as us.
Who did Peter think Jesus was? Just “a son of God” like all of us? Or THE Son of the living God?
And take notice of how Peter knew this Gene. It wasn't revealed to him by man, but by God Himself. Jesus called Peter's knowledge that he was the literal Son of God “the Rock on which he would build his church”. Isn't that impressive? The fact that Peter knew Jesus was something other than a “regular” human exactly like us was so profound that Jesus said this knowledge is what he would build his church on.
Will you become a member of THAT church Gene? Or will you remain among the ranks of those “other people” who thought Jesus was just another one of the many prophets that God chose to speak through? It has to be revealed to you, not by man, but by God Himself Gene. Pray for understanding.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 27 2010,02:14) barely………………. There is NO real MAN of SIN , it is a FALSE (IMAGE) ABOUT JESUS…
peace and love to you and yours barley……………………………gene
Hi Gene,The ‘man of sin’ is any individual taking antichrist's mark, believing in the false image of Jesus! (Rev.13:15)
I'm glad you are one of the few that are on to the deception I describe in this link!God bless you Brother Gene!
Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)Quote (barley @ Sep. 26 2010,23:41) I book that I would recommend that you find and read is Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille's book on the subject of pneuma hagion.
Hi barley,Thanks, but unlike you and Martian, the only book I need is the Bible. I don't need some other mere human telling me how to believe.
Besides, I've used clear scriptural knowledge to refute your “David/Jesus” statements. Where is your clear scriptural knowledge that explains how if “branch” means “came after”, “root” somehow DOESN'T mean “came before”?
Where is your clear scriptural knowledge that explains how someone who already IS a human being can be “made in the likeness of a human being”?
Where is your clear scriptural knowledge that shows us who the REAL “Word” is in the gospel of John? You know, the one that became flesh, resided among us, and had the glory of an only begotten son. The same one who's identity John himself made clear to us in his Revelation. If not Jesus, then who?
These are just three of the many indications that Jesus pre-existed barley. If you can't refute these three, then why should I go on with you? To me, it doesn't matter how many “famed authors” you and Martian post. They are mere men using the logic of mere men. And when I read them, and their “logic” falls apart in the face of INSPIRED words from God, I can't ask them, “What about this?” and “What about that?” They aren't “here” to answer to the same scriptures I'm asking you guys to answer to.
So if you think that there's something SCRIPTURAL that this guy Wierwille says in his book that indicates Jesus didn't pre-exist, then by all means, bring it up and we can discuss that point in the face of the actual scriptures. But I don't need the OPINIONS of yet another Martian and Gene, who think their WISHES for Jesus to be exactly like us should somehow override the words of the scriptures themselves.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 27 2010,02:14) barely……………….Amen Brother. Mike reminds me of a person who strains out a gnat and swallows a Camel. These preexistences do every bit as much damage to the Kingdom of GOD as Trinitarians, they are SEPARATIST WHO SEPARATE OUR IDENTITY WITH JESUS AS A HUMAN BEING AND THEREBY DENY THE WORK OF GOD IN MANKIND, by denying His work in Christ Jesus. They are not only against Christ but against GODS work in Him as a pure human being (PERFECTED) by the one and only true GOD, by the CHRISTOS that was ON HIM and in HIM. They obscure the image of Jesus and create a false image of Him. 2 Ths 2….> They create the LIE spoken of, BY distorting the (IMAGE) of Jesus and tunning Him into A Man of Sin, which he will abolish at His return as spoken of there. There is NO real MAN of SIN , it is a FALSE (IMAGE) ABOUT JESUS, created by Preexistences and Trinitarians, Who display or Portray him different then US. peace and love to you and yours barley……………………………gene
Blah blah blah………JUST ANSWER TO THE SCRIPTURES GENE.You can spout all the crap you want, but you can't deny the actual scriptures. We have all read this diatribe of yours a hundred times Gene. We're sick of it. Your OPINIONS do not refute SCRIPTURES Gene. Please, keep them to yourself, and refute our understanding with SCRIPTURE.
SCRIPTURE, SCRIPTURE, SCRIPTURE Gene.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 27 2010,03:02) Quote (barley @ Sep. 26 2010,23:41) I book that I would recommend that you find and read is Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille's book on the subject of pneuma hagion.
Hi barley,Thanks, but unlike you and Martian, the only book I need is the Bible. I don't need some other mere human telling me how to believe.
Besides, I've used clear scriptural knowledge to refute your “David/Jesus” statements. Where is your clear scriptural knowledge that explains how if “branch” means “came after”, “root” somehow DOESN'T mean “came before”?
Where is your clear scriptural knowledge that explains how someone who already IS a human being can be “made in the likeness of a human being”?
Where is your clear scriptural knowledge that shows us who the REAL “Word” is in the gospel of John? You know, the one that became flesh, resided among us, and had the glory of an only begotten son. The same one who's identity John himself made clear to us in his Revelation. If not Jesus, then who?
These are just three of the many indications that Jesus pre-existed barley. If you can't refute these three, then why should I go on with you? To me, it doesn't matter how many “famed authors” you and Martian post. They are mere men using the logic of mere men. And when I read them, and their “logic” falls apart in the face of INSPIRED words from God, I can't ask them, “What about this?” and “What about that?” They aren't “here” to answer to the same scriptures I'm asking you guys to answer to.
So if you think that there's something SCRIPTURAL that this guy Wierwille says in his book that indicates Jesus didn't pre-exist, then by all means, bring it up and we can discuss that point in the face of the actual scriptures. But I don't need the OPINIONS of yet another Martian and Gene, who think their WISHES for Jesus to be exactly like us should somehow override the words of the scriptures themselves.
peace and love,
mike
mikey,You see that is your game, to play your game, I must not admit that there is more to the verse than JC being an offshoot of David. For what does the rest of the verse have to do with JC being an offshoot of David. Absolutely nuttin.
For that matter is Philippians 2 chronological? Where does the scripture say so? Could it be something else? Is it a summation of actions that occurred simultaneously? You have never considered that as a possibility because your agenda is already in your mind.
Jesus Christ did not have spirit until his baptism by John. did you ever consider that in your thinking? From what I can tell, no. You never even considered that in your thinking? What is the difference between natural man and a spiritual man? Is it simply attitude? or is there something else involved? Have you considered that? Why didn't JC have spirit until he was baptized by John? Why did John get to have spirit from his mother's womb? How is that possible? Why does that make John the greatest man born of woman? When do other believers get spirit? how? what does it mean to have spirit upon? What is the difference between that and getting born again?
Until you have scriptural answers for all that, you will continue to be grasping at straws. You will continue to be jumping to conclusions of no scriptural merit.
barley
Quote (barley @ Sep. 27 2010,05:20) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 27 2010,03:02) Quote (barley @ Sep. 26 2010,23:41) I book that I would recommend that you find and read is Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille's book on the subject of pneuma hagion.
Hi barley,Thanks, but unlike you and Martian, the only book I need is the Bible. I don't need some other mere human telling me how to believe.
Besides, I've used clear scriptural knowledge to refute your “David/Jesus” statements. Where is your clear scriptural knowledge that explains how if “branch” means “came after”, “root” somehow DOESN'T mean “came before”?
Where is your clear scriptural knowledge that explains how someone who already IS a human being can be “made in the likeness of a human being”?
Where is your clear scriptural knowledge that shows us who the REAL “Word” is in the gospel of John? You know, the one that became flesh, resided among us, and had the glory of an only begotten son. The same one who's identity John himself made clear to us in his Revelation. If not Jesus, then who?
These are just three of the many indications that Jesus pre-existed barley. If you can't refute these three, then why should I go on with you? To me, it doesn't matter how many “famed authors” you and Martian post. They are mere men using the logic of mere men. And when I read them, and their “logic” falls apart in the face of INSPIRED words from God, I can't ask them, “What about this?” and “What about that?” They aren't “here” to answer to the same scriptures I'm asking you guys to answer to.
So if you think that there's something SCRIPTURAL that this guy Wierwille says in his book that indicates Jesus didn't pre-exist, then by all means, bring it up and we can discuss that point in the face of the actual scriptures. But I don't need the OPINIONS of yet another Martian and Gene, who think their WISHES for Jesus to be exactly like us should somehow override the words of the scriptures themselves.
peace and love,
mike
mikey,You see that is your game, to play your game, I must not admit that there is more to the verse than JC being an offshoot of David. For what does the rest of the verse have to do with JC being an offshoot of David. Absolutely nuttin.
For that matter is Philippians 2 chronological? Where does the scripture say so? Could it be something else? Is it a summation of actions that occurred simultaneously? You have never considered that as a possibility because your agenda is already in your mind.
Jesus Christ did not have spirit until his baptism by John. did you ever consider that in your thinking? From what I can tell, no. You never even considered that in your thinking? What is the difference between natural man and a spiritual man? Is it simply attitude? or is there something else involved? Have you considered that? Why didn't JC have spirit until he was baptized by John? Why did John get to have spirit from his mother's womb? How is that possible? Why does that make John the greatest man born of woman? When do other believers get spirit? how? what does it mean to have spirit upon? What is the difference between that and getting born again?
Until you have scriptural answers for all that, you will continue to be grasping at straws. You will continue to be jumping to conclusions of no scriptural merit.
barley
Oh, by the way, you need only scripture? May be you could explain the purpose of Acts 8:31? or why God has sent apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers? As given in Ephesians 4:11?Be not wise in your own conceits.
barley
Quote (barley @ Sep. 27 2010,05:20) For that matter is Philippians 2 chronological? Where does the scripture say so? Could it be something else? Is it a summation of actions that occurred simultaneously? You have never considered that as a possibility because your agenda is already in your mind.
Okay then oatmeal,Show me step by step how Phil 2 is NOT chronological. He was existing in the form of God at the exact same time he was emptying himself and taking on a slave's form and being made into the likeness of a man…….all while he already was a man.
That's the best I can do. Your turn.
mike
Quote (barley @ Sep. 27 2010,05:33) Oh, by the way, you need only scripture? May be you could explain the purpose of Acts 8:31? or why God has sent apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers? As given in Ephesians 4:11? Be not wise in your own conceits.
barley
And which of the trinitarian teachers do you suppose I should follow barley?How can you say the one who says to worship only God is on the same level of “teaching” as the one who says to also worship Christ as a part of the Godhead?
I don't need teachers who teach AGAINST what the scriptures say.
mike
Mike………what do you men which Trinitarians teaching you “should follow” Mike you (ARE) following them, but you just can't see it. They separate Jesus from our likeness so do you, what the difference your are both Separatist.
You trying to use scripture where Jesus said to Peter and the rest who he was is just another ploy to separate Jesus from our likeness, is just another ploy of you lack of understanding in you quest to separate Jesus from us. If you notice Peter said thou are the “CHRIST THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD” . Jesus became the son of GOD at the Jordan River when he was baptized as barely correctly stated, “THIS DAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU”, remember. No where there did Peter say Jesus was different them Him or anyone else that is YOUR addition to what was said not his. Peter was shown by GOD the Father that Jesus was the (MAN) who was and an Anointed SON of GOD, Not a preexisting Son of GOD as you try to force the text to say. Not only that if you would read the rest of that quote Jesus shows Peter He has the Same revelation knowledge (IN) Him (JUST) as Peter did. ” and i say unto you that Your are Peter and Upon THIS ROCK ( what ROCK was that?, the power of God to reveal knowledge into the mind of Man) He would build the Church and the gates of Hell would not prevail. Jesus was identifying (EXACTLY WITH PETER) ABOUT REVEALED KNOWLEDGE, PETER HAVE IT AND SO DID JESUS.
Mike can't you see what you are doing, you are continually trying to SEPARATE JESUS FORM US. That IS the SPIRIT (intellect) of ANTICHRIST. Trinitarians and Preexistences and Gnostic's are all do the same thing they are separatist they alter the plan and purpose of GOD (IN) Mankind.
Mike continuing to force the text to meet you dogmas is all you are doing here Now you trying to use Where Peter said Jesus was the Christ the son of the Living GOD as if Peter did not think He was a son of GOD also , all Jew believes they were childern of GOD. Remember when They told Jesus “we have but ONE FATHER EVEN GOD”. When Jesus prayed how did he do he tell us to pray, ” OUR FATHER” WHO ART IN HEAVEN. Do you think that meant only Jesus. I have posted about four Scripture that Show we are (NOW) Sons Of GOD. But as usual you simply ignore them and proceed to foster you deceptions. You ignorance of them only show you lack of understanding and now you ask us to even believe more of your misunderstood nonsense.
peace and love……………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 28 2010,03:59) Mike can't you see what you are doing, you are continually trying to SEPARATE JESUS FORM US.
And you try to put the one through whom the universe was created on the same level as a mere sinful man.Tell me Gene, what particular ACT of kindness did you show your fellow man today that you couldn't have done if Jesus pre-existed?
mike
To ALL………Go back and read what Mike just wrote, now Can't you see how they do not see Jesus as a Human AT (ALL), so how can they even believe the Human Jesus ever can into being in the Flesh when in fact they do not really even believe He was a Human Being or a SON OF MAN. He to them is the creator of the universe and that is exactly the point of the separation Doctrine they preach. It denies Jesus' humanity, it also denies Jesus (OVERCOMING) AS A PURE FLESH AND BLOOD BEING) even More (IT DENISE GOD'S WORK IN THE HUMAN BEING JESUS). They are ANTICHRIST beyond any shadow of doubt, And so are all who think like preexistences and trinitarians. Anyone who separates Jesus from their own identity as a human being have no part with Him because (THEY) have separated Jesus from themselves. They do not believe they can attain to the “measure of the fullness of the stature of Christ at all”. They have cut their own selves off by their separation ideologies.
peace and love………………………….gene
Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.What part of that don't you get Gene?
mike
Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 27 2010,02:49) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 27 2010,02:14) barely………………. There is NO real MAN of SIN , it is a FALSE (IMAGE) ABOUT JESUS…
peace and love to you and yours barley……………………………gene
Hi Gene,The ‘man of sin’ is any individual taking antichrist's mark, believing in the false image of Jesus! (Rev.13:15)
I'm glad you are one of the few that are on to the deception I describe in this link!God bless you Brother Gene!
Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)
Hi Gene,No comment on this Gene?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEDJ…………..I have know that for many many years now and have written articles on it. The man of sin is (NOT) a REAL PERSON it is the LIE about Jesus which cause people to Worship Him as a GOD or Demigod or incarnate angels of some kind. This LIE Will be destroyed BY Jesus Himself when He returns it will be one of the first things he does, he will abolish this LIE about HIMSELF being anything other then a SON of MAN. EdJ…..if you care to go to the thread of the Man of SIN you can read some it there.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 30 2010,23:29) EDJ…………..I have know that for many many years now and have written articles on it. The man of sin is (NOT) a REAL PERSON it is the LIE about Jesus which cause people to Worship Him as a GOD or Demigod or incarnate angels of some kind. This LIE Will be destroyed BY Jesus Himself when He returns it will be one of the first things he does, he will abolish this LIE about HIMSELF being anything other then a SON of MAN. EdJ…..if you care to go to the thread of the Man of SIN you can read some it there. peace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene
Hi Gene,Jesus returned on the day of Pentecost. (Click Here)
A flesh return is what the false image of Jesus is! (Click Here)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEDJ……….I believe the False Image of Jesus is that He is a GOD or Demigod, are incarnated angle of some kind. He is the one who is now seated in the temple of GOD and being displayed as a GOD, no one else is. Him coming in the Flesh or not has nothing to do with the Man of Sin. He will return as the SON of MAN Just as He said he would. “FOR WHEN THE SON OF MAN RETURNS WILL HE FIND FAITH ON THE EARTH?” If you believe Jesus has already returned you are in error , He will return Just as He left and all the Saint will be gathered unto Him and He and they will descend to the earth and will with the Saints proceed to convience all the ungodly of their ungodly deed which they have ungodly committed. Just as it says. Jesus Did not return on Pentecost as you assume. The Spirit of GOD was poured out on man kind at that time just as Peter said it was. If you think Jesus will not return as a SON of MAN you are in great error EDJ> IMO
peace and love………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 01 2010,01:00) EDJ……….If you think Jesus will not return as a SON of MAN you are in great error EDJ> IMO peace and love………………..gene
Hi Gene,At least you admit this thought of yours is only your opinion.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Oct. 01 2010,01:25) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 01 2010,01:00) EDJ……….If you think Jesus will not return as a SON of MAN you are in great error EDJ> IMO peace and love………………..gene
Hi Gene,At least you admit this thought of yours is only your opinion.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EDJ………..I have supplied you with Scripture , “WHEN THE SON OF man RETURNS WILL HE FIND FAITH ON THE EARTH”. that is not my opinion now is it. And what about this , I saw the Lord descending on mount Paron with ten Thousands of His saints to execute Judgment ON THE EARTH. To convience all the ungodly of their ungodly deed which they have ungodly committed. Your false Pentecost teachings of his return is what is an opinion if you ask me. Jesus will certainty return and as Paul said He will destory the False teaching of Him being a GOD which Creates the image of the Man of Sin. And He will do it with the Breath of His own Mouth which are his Words he will speak at his return. If you think Jesus has already returned , by supposing when the Spirit said it would not leave us as Orphans but would come to us and abide with us for ever as being Jesus Himself you are greatly mistaken.I love it when you people say “O” that is yours Opinion as if yours is not an opinion , but the absolute word of GOD. So in your mind everyone else is an opinion except you and your number system RIGHT!
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