Root and branch

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 16 2010,03:22)

YOU have not produced (ONE) Scripture that specifically say JESUS PREEXISTED AS A BEING AT ALL, Not ONE.

That is fantastic Gene!

I notice you now have to add the words “as a being”, which means we HAVE produced adequate pre-existence scriptures, AND that you agree with them. Now you just have to give up your stubborness and realize how silly it is to say, “Yes, Jesus pre-existed……BUT ONLY AS A THOUGHT IN GOD'S HEAD – NOT AS A BEING!” :laugh:

mike

September 16, 2010 at 3:42 pm#216556

Participant

Mike ………A did not add that i alway said that Jesus did not (PREEXIST) his berth on earth and (ANY Kind of BEING). I do not agree with what you preexistencs and Trinitarians say at all>

peace and love………………………..gene

September 17, 2010 at 3:50 am#216606

Blocked

I'm not a trinitarian. They teach unscriptural beliefs……just like you non-preexisters.

Come on Gene. Don't start bailing on me now. Is that your claim….that Jesus DID pre-exist, but just not as a being?

mike

September 17, 2010 at 2:27 pm#216629

Participant

Mike………Why can't you get it, when Paul was referencing Jesus' preexistence, he was talking about Jesus preexistence on EARTH before he died and was resurrected and went to heaven. But you preexistences stretch out what Paul was saying to as you suppose a pre-earth existence. That was not what Paul was talking about. He was talking about HIS earthly existence only. He was showing us how Jesus even though He had the Nature of GOD (Holy Spirit) (IN) Him he did not take advantage of that by trying to make himself equal with GOD , but took on the nature of His earthly human existence and humbled himself as a slave to GOD. Paul was using Jesus example to show (US) how to LIVE. Why, because we are Just like Him in every way, all who have GOD'S Spirit in them can get puffed up about it , but he was showing how Jesus did not do that, so we need to follow Jesus human example, because he is exactly as we are a human being who existed with the Spirit of GOD (IN) him also. But you separation-est cant understand that right?

peace and love ……………………..gene

September 17, 2010 at 2:31 pm#216631

Participant

Mike……….Don't kid yourself You Preexistence are the same as Trinitarians , both of you are Separation-est and remove Jesus form our exact identity. To say you don't would be a lie brother. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene

September 18, 2010 at 5:09 am#216683

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 18 2010,01:31)

Mike……….Don't kid yourself You Preexistence are the same as Trinitarians ,

A statement like that only goes to show your ignorance Gene. I'm no more separated from the love of my Lord whether he pre-existed or not. But the scriptures say he did.

Anyway, is that your final answer? Is it your contention that Jesus DID pre-exsist his flesh, but only as a “thought in God's head”? And the glory he had as a “thought in God's head” was the glory he was asking God to return him to?

mike

September 18, 2010 at 11:55 am#216708

Participant

Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 11 2010,13:11)

Barley,

You argument only stands up of you belief that Jesus was ONLY Man and was only ever Man.

Otherwise what you write doesn't make sense.

There is nothing wrong with what Mike has written – just the desperation for others to deliberately misinterpret it.

What is the “Root” if the “Branch” means “After”.

It is not hard to see unless you have your eyes closed.

Root..- – >..Trunk..- – >..Branch

OK,

Could you please rewrite your first sentence of your reply to me?

Do you proofread your posts at all?

I do not want to jump to conclusions.

But if your first sentence of your reply reflects you ability to understand scripture, you have got a long, long ways to go before you'll ever see the sense of it.

Your first sentence is incomprehensible.
And you suggest that what I wrote doesn't make sense?

Please learn to write a comprehensible sentence.

What is this “of you belief” what is that?
Please proofread your posts.
And please double check your thinking on the scriptures.

You need to learn about the concept of foreknowledge.

God has it.

He uses it.

Once you understand foreknowledge, you will be able to see many, many more wonderful truths about how God cares and loves and prepares to bless His people.

Then you will be able to understand how God “marked us out beforehand”.

Ie, “predestinated”.

Then you will more ably understand those scriptures, that indicate God's ability to plan ahead for a redeemer for mankind.

The Old Testament is filled with prophecies concerning Jesus Christ.

The are all foreknowledge about JC that God has.

He revealed some of that information to the prophets.

Some prophets spoke those prophecies.

Some prophets wrote those prophecies down.

The word of God is quite simple, once you let it speak for itself.

You also need to understand God's ability to get things done.

When God foretells and declares it done, it is a finished reality.

He can speak of it as done, even if it hasn't even been started.

This is not only true to fact, it is the figure of speech called anticipation.

That is, speaking of future events as if they are done, even though they are not.

For instance, God speaks of the return of Christ for us his saints in I Thessalonians 4:13-18.

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The truths that God gives us here are good as done.

Therefore, we are able to comfort one another with these words.

These words are not a “perhaps” or a “maybe”. They are as solid as God Himself. We can comfort one another with these words.

barley

September 18, 2010 at 12:58 pm#216709

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 12 2010,07:29)

Quote (barley @ Sep. 11 2010,12:57)

Mikeboll,

If those were the only verses in scripture, I would agree that those verses teach the preexistence of JC.

However, please take note that those are not the only verses in scripture.

Genesis 3:15

God announced his plan for a redeemer, while Adam and Eve were the only two humans. As God worked with whom He could to implement those plans, it was clear that the seed of the woman would come out of the lineage of Jesse, and then David.

Hi barley,

You are correct: The seed of the woman in 3:15 would eventually come from the line of David. But I fail to see how that would imply that Jesus didn't pre-exist his flesh.

Even though I can sense JA cringing already, Ignatius said:

He was the Son of God, “the first-born of every creature,” God the Word, the only-begotten Son, and was of the seed of David according to the flesh…

This is also how I see it. And I don't quote Ignatius as if his words were inspired of God like the scriptures, but he was taught by the Apostle John himself. I came to my understanding by reading the Bible by myself…….alone with nobody to sway my thoughts that this scripture means this, or that scripture means that.

Which makes me wonder how you came to your understanding. Martian has posted that he showed some of the things I've said to others in his church and they laughed. That leads me to believe that Martian belongs to a church that teaches that Jesus didn't pre-exist…….do you? Can you say your understanding stems from only scripture…..or had you been “swayed” long ago to believe that Jesus didn't pre-exist, and have since had that belief deeply engraved into your psyche?

I'm just askin……but not THE JustAskin.

mike

Mike boll,

If I were to look at only the verses that you so dearly love and ignore the rest of scripture, then it would be easy for me to agree with you.

(Please read my reply to JustAskin.)

However, as I pointed out to JustAskin, in my reply to his post, there are a lot of other truths that must be incorporated to get the complete picture.

You can see the big picture and get the blessings that God wants for you.

The truths regarding God's ability to bring things to pass and his integrity when He speaks of things to come, would be most helpful for you to learn.

For instance, regarding context:

Anyone can prove that the Bible says, “There is no God” And anyone who says that is absolutely 100% correct. The Bible does say that, “There is no God”.

Psalm 53:1, “The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.”

There is no question.
There is no argument that could ever disprove that the Bible says, that there is no God.
It is indisputable.

Likewise, when you bring up your selected scriptures to prove that JC preexisted.

As YOU present them, they seem indisputable.

However, the larger context of those verses that you point out clarifies what is written.

When you learn to see those verses in their scriptural, not personal, context, you eyes will be able to see truths, that at this point, you cannot even imagine.

For instance, God knows our need before we do.

Philippians 4:19, God already knows our need,and is totally prepared to meet them or else He would have not promised to supply them.

19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

He will not only supply our need, but will meet that need according to His, not ours, riches in glory.

My need will be met wonderfully and awesomely. There will be no question that God provided.

God is well prepared to answer all our prayers and requests, when we ask according to His will. (not our own)

God is more willing to answer our prayers that we are willing to ask.

God knows that I will need another automobile within the next 20 years. Has that car been built yet? Probably not. Has it even been designed yet? Probably not. Yet God is full prepared to meet my needs just 20 years from now. He can say that He shall meet my need for a newer automobile even twenty years before I need it. He already knows what my state of health will be 20 years from now. He is totally prepared to heal me of all health challenges should I have any.

A faithful, loyal disciple knows this. He understands why God says, “Fear not” to His people so many, many times. God has us covered. Totally and to the minutest detail.

Whatever comes up in our lives God already is totally prepared to deal with it. That is why we can move ahead on the things of God with total confidence and assurance.

Learn context, for starters.

Once you have learned that, then we can move onto other truths.

One that I will preview with you now is figures of speech. See Isaiah 11:1, ” And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:”

branch tsemach, meaning, sprout, shoot or offspring.

There is a figure of speech used there. Is Jesus Christ literally a “branch” a “sprout” or a “shoot”? No, JC is not a stick of wood. He is a human being, not a piece of wood. As wonderful as wood is, Jesus Christ is not literally a stick of wood. Yet, God speaks of him as such. He is showing that indeed JC is of the same fiber, the same composition, the basic genetic code of Jesse and then David. He is a son of David according to the flesh. Romans 1:3.

“Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;”

God knew this and declared it.

barley

September 18, 2010 at 2:52 pm#216716

Participant

barely………..AMEN, AMEN , AMEN, brother. If we could all apply those rules to our understanding we could all grow in the faith. I noticed When get caught up in single words proofing it tends to cause me to lose the context and i have to stop and rethink things, i notice Mike does this a lot he zero in on one word and tries to draw us into it, It is like “straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel” syndrome. Trinitarians as well as Preexistence are very good at doing that. Thanks Brother for that sound reply.

peace and love to you and yours…………………………………….gene

September 18, 2010 at 4:06 pm#216724

Blocked

When will you answer the scripture in question oatmeal?

barley:

Quote

As YOU present them, they seem indisputable.

Then why don't you CLEARLY present a scripture that changes the word “human being” in Phil 2:7 into something else? Is there some CLEAR scriptures that imply that “Branch” DOESN'T mean “came after” and “Root” DOESN'T mean “came before”?

barley:

Quote

When you learn to see those verses in their scriptural, not personal, context, you eyes will be able to see truths, that at this point, you cannot even imagine.

Where do you get off telling me and JA that we don't have scriptural truth? Who do you think YOU are? A prophet or something?

barley:

Quote

God knows that I will need another automobile within the next 20 years.

I think it is you who doesn't quite understand, my friend. I don't think God gives a care at all about your future car. The promise is not that you will always have a car. The promise is that even if the world crashes, and you stuck in the middle of a desert WITHOUT a car, you can count on God to provide food to eat and clothes to wear. Not a nice house, or any house at all for that matter. Not a car. Not a job. Not money. Just the bare necessities of what it will take for you to live.

If I lose my car, house, savings and everything else tomorrow, I will rest assured God will provide food and clothes for me……that's all the promise entails.

barley:

Quote

Anyone can prove that the Bible says, “There is no God” And anyone who says that is absolutely 100% correct. The Bible does say that, “There is no God”.

This kind of thing just wastes time and energy barley. Does it say, “A fool says Jesus is the Root of David”? Does it say, “A fool says that after Jesus was in the form of God, he WAS MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF A HUMAN BEING”?

Come on man, this is just silly. I'll tell you what I tell Gene: Either logically refute what the scripture says, or give up your WISH for Jesus to have been EXACTLY LIKE US.

mike

September 19, 2010 at 12:42 am#216754

Participant

MIke……….So to you a root is the beginning (right), you are wrong the Seed is the Beginning and then comes the roots and then the trunk and then the branches and then the leaves and then the fruit. So what was the roots of Jesus and David it was Jessie. When Jesus addressed his root and Offspring was of (FROM) DAVID. He is Identifying with King David's linage and nothing More . Notice he said (the root (AND) Offspring ) both are used there for smiler meanings the word (AND) combines them in subject matter. Like saying the root and offshoot of a tree they are all meaning the same tree not a different tree. But true to MYSTERY RELIGION you as they try to get double meanings from the text. Barely rightly described what you do Mike trying to push your dogmas, and martian also spoke the truth you have failed to produced any reason for GOD to MORPH a Pre-earth being and pass him off as a real human being of some kind. So did Marty by the Way.

In fact you are saying GOD does things without sound reasons to what he is doing. You have produced (NO) text showing any activity of a Preexisting Jesus at all. Just hunting for a single word you can twist out of context to support you dogmas. You and WJ use the same tactics destory reason and zero in on words you can twist out of context, or ascribe major points where the text is not doing that, for instance ” ROOT AND OFFSPRING OF DAVID” THAT DOES (not) have a double meaning, one root, and the other offspring, that is drawing for straws to support your dogmas. IMO Mike.

peace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene

September 19, 2010 at 4:32 am#216763

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 19 2010,11:42)

Barely rightly described what you do Mike trying to push your dogmas, and martian also spoke the truth you have failed to produced any reason for GOD to MORPH a Pre-earth being and pass him off as a real human being of some kind. So did Marty by the Way.

In fact you are saying GOD does things without sound reasons to what he is doing.

Gene,

Do you even realize that your whole defense to the pre-exsistence of Jesus is your HUMAN OPINION that it can't be that way because it doesn't make sense TO YOU that God would do it that way?

You guys keep asking for me to give a reason for why God did something the way He did. How could I possibly know that? How could you?

You can't base your understanding of scripture on whether or not what God did makes sense to you. It doesn't make sense to me that God killed Uzzah just for trying the stabilize the ark so it wouldn't fall off the cart. But scripture says that's what happened, so I can't just imagine it away Gene. Remember this scripture well Gene – I do when my human brain can't comprehend why God would do some of the things He's done:

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;

peace and love,
mike

September 19, 2010 at 12:26 pm#216787

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 19 2010,03:06)

When will you answer the scripture in question oatmeal?

barley:

Quote

As YOU present them, they seem indisputable.

barley:

Quote

When you learn to see those verses in their scriptural, not personal, context, you eyes will be able to see truths, that at this point, you cannot even imagine.

Where do you get off telling me and JA that we don't have scriptural truth? Who do you think YOU are? A prophet or something?

barley:

Quote

God knows that I will need another automobile within the next 20 years.

If I lose my car, house, savings and everything else tomorrow, I will rest assured God will provide food and clothes for me……that's all the promise entails.

barley:

Quote

Anyone can prove that the Bible says, “There is no God” And anyone who says that is absolutely 100% correct. The Bible does say that, “There is no God”.

Come on man, this is just silly. I'll tell you what I tell Gene: Either logically refute what the scripture says, or give up your WISH for Jesus to have been EXACTLY LIKE US.

mike

Quote

What does this mean? We know Jesus is the Branch, or “offspring” of David according to the flesh, but in what sense is Jesus the Root of David or Jesse (David's father)?

Doesn't this clearly imply that Jesus was before David?

Quote

What does this mean? We know Jesus is the Branch, or “offspring” of David according to the flesh, but in what sense is Jesus the Root of David or Jesse (David's father)?

I did answer that.

I will repeat and clarify.

Genesis 3:15, Jesus Christ was foretold. David was not. Jesse was not. Jesus Christ is the central figure of our salvation, not David. David knew this, even before JC existed. David believed in a future (to him) savior that was foretold of long before David existed. Yet David was told that the savior would be one of his offspring. It is so simple. Why don't you see it? See Gene's posts, you are too focused on one thought to incorporate the totality of scripture into your thinking.

Quote

Doesn't this clearly imply that Jesus was before David?

No.

barley

September 19, 2010 at 1:20 pm#216789

Participant

Quote (barley @ Sep. 19 2010,23:26)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 19 2010,03:06)

When will you answer the scripture in question oatmeal?

barley:

Quote

As YOU present them, they seem indisputable.

barley:

Quote

When you learn to see those verses in their scriptural, not personal, context, you eyes will be able to see truths, that at this point, you cannot even imagine.

Where do you get off telling me and JA that we don't have scriptural truth? Who do you think YOU are? A prophet or something?

barley:

Quote

God knows that I will need another automobile within the next 20 years.

If I lose my car, house, savings and everything else tomorrow, I will rest assured God will provide food and clothes for me……that's all the promise entails.

barley:

Quote

Anyone can prove that the Bible says, “There is no God” And anyone who says that is absolutely 100% correct. The Bible does say that, “There is no God”.

Come on man, this is just silly. I'll tell you what I tell Gene: Either logically refute what the scripture says, or give up your WISH for Jesus to have been EXACTLY LIKE US.

mike

Quote

What does this mean? We know Jesus is the Branch, or “offspring” of David according to the flesh, but in what sense is Jesus the Root of David or Jesse (David's father)?

Doesn't this clearly imply that Jesus was before David?

Quote

What does this mean? We know Jesus is the Branch, or “offspring” of David according to the flesh, but in what sense is Jesus the Root of David or Jesse (David's father)?

I did answer that.

I will repeat and clarify.

Quote

Doesn't this clearly imply that Jesus was before David?

No.

barley

MB,

Since JC was the offspring of David

does that not imply that

1. David preexisted Jesus Christ?

2. Jesse who was David's father preexisted David by one generation?

3. Jesse preexisted Jesus Christ by two generations?

Quote

Where do you get off telling me and JA that we don't have scriptural truth?

I am sure you have some. But as Gene clearly pointed out and I concur, your focus is too narrow. You only see what you want to see. You see only one branch in a forest full of trees.

Quote

I think it is you who doesn't quite understand, my friend. I don't think God gives a care at all about your future car. The promise is not that you will always have a car.

God cares enough to know the number of hairs on my head.

God cares. Romans 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Philippians 4:6-7 Be careful [anxious] for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Matthew 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

God knows that I need a mode of transportation that will allow me to get to where He wants me to go in a manner befitting an ambassador for Christ. II Corinthians 5:20, Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

God knows the cares on my heart and He wants me to know that He cares about them too and will answer my need.
I Peter 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

I John 3:22, And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

Whatever we ask of him according to His will, He hears us.

Psalm 37:25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.

Psalm 35:27 Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea,
let them say continually, Let the LORD be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant. which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.

Proverbs 3:9-10 Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:
10 So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.

Malachi 3:6-12 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them . Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it .
11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.
12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts.

Of course, maybe I won't need a car twenty years from now. God could do for me what He did for Philip,

Acts 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

If it was a genuine need, God will do it. Car or no car.

You have not been taught the simplest of truths about God's loving care for us. Well now you have some of these basics.

I would advise you to learn about God's wondrous care for you before you venture out into subjects you have not yet been instructed in.

barley

September 19, 2010 at 1:47 pm#216790

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 19 2010,15:32)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 19 2010,11:42)

In fact you are saying GOD does things without sound reasons to what he is doing.

Gene,

Do you even realize that your whole defense to the pre-exsistence of Jesus is your HUMAN OPINION that it can't be that way because it doesn't make sense TO YOU that God would do it that way?

You guys keep asking for me to give a reason for why God did something the way He did. How could I possibly know that? How could you?

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;

peace and love,
mike

Mikeboll,

The scriptures say that God killed Uzziah, but that is a Hebrew idiom. A figure of speech. It is the idiom of permission. God permitted it to happen. It is the devil who has the power of death.

Hebrews 2:14. Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

God wanted to protect His people from the attacks of the enemy. He told them how to keep out of harm's way. If they disobeyed, they were subject to the consequences.

Same thing with the passover in Egypt.

The blood of the lamb kept the destroyer out of the houses of the Israelites.

Who is this destroyer?

John 10:10 tells us that it is the thief, the antithesis of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ came to give us life, the thief comes to give us death.

Christ is our passover who prevents the destroyer from getting to us.

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

I Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

I have not looked up the references for these verses, but God commanded Israel never to make mention of other gods. That is another reason for scripture saying God killed or destroyed, etc.

barley

September 19, 2010 at 1:51 pm#216791

Participant

Quote (barley @ Sep. 20 2010,00:47)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 19 2010,15:32)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 19 2010,11:42)

In fact you are saying GOD does things without sound reasons to what he is doing.

Gene,

Do you even realize that your whole defense to the pre-exsistence of Jesus is your HUMAN OPINION that it can't be that way because it doesn't make sense TO YOU that God would do it that way?

You guys keep asking for me to give a reason for why God did something the way He did. How could I possibly know that? How could you?

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;

peace and love,
mike

Mikeboll,

The scriptures say that God killed Uzziah, but that is a Hebrew idiom. A figure of speech. It is the idiom of permission. God permitted it to happen. It is the devil who has the power of death.

God wanted to protect His people from the attacks of the enemy. He told them how to keep out of harm's way. If they disobeyed, they were subject to the consequences.

Same thing with the passover in Egypt.

The blood of the lamb kept the destroyer out of the houses of the Israelites.

Who is this destroyer?

John 10:10 tells us that it is the thief, the antithesis of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ came to give us life, the thief comes to give us death.

Christ is our passover who prevents the destroyer from getting to us.

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

I Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

I have not looked up the references for these verses, but God commanded Israel never to make mention of other gods. That is another reason for scripture saying God killed or destroyed, etc.

barley

Mikeboll,

I should clarify. God always wants to protect all His people from all the attacks of the enemy… This is not a past reality, it is a present and future reality.

His scripture tells us what we must do to remain in God's protection. The first thing is to, “Fear not.”

barley

September 19, 2010 at 3:03 pm#216793

Ed J

Participant

Quote (barley @ Sep. 20 2010,00:20)

Quote

Where do you get off telling me and JA that we don't have scriptural truth?

I am sure you have some. But as Gene clearly pointed out and I concur, your focus is too narrow. You only see what you want to see. You see only one branch in a forest full of trees.

barley

HI Barley,

Could not your own analogy also apply to yourself? (Matt.7:2)

1Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, …(John 3:16)
even so in Christ shall all be made alive. (John 6:37-40)

Here is a more complete picture of Jesus' lineage, starting with Jesus' Father(HolySpirit) and Mother(Mary)
What does the combination of Eph.4:6 combined with Matt.1:18, Matt.1:20 and Luke 1:35 say to you?
Matt.1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused
to Joseph, before they came (consummated) together, she was found with child of the HolySpirit.
Matt.1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto
him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife:
for that which is conceived in her is of the HolySpirit. (Son of the HolySpirit = Son of God)
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The HolySpirit shall come upon
thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that
holy thing(Jesus) which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Here is a chart as to why Jesus is called both the “Son of Man” and the “Son of God”…

Mother Father
Mary HolySpirit
50% 50%
\ /
\ /
Jesus
/ \
/ \
/ \
Son of Man Son of God
(Mark 6:3) (Luke 1:35)

Jesus complete lineage

“Son of Man”: 25%; Mary's mother's lineage was of the tribe of Levi. (Luke 1:5, 1:36)
“Son of Man”: 25%: Mary's father's lineage was (Judah) through Nathan(son of David). (Luke 3:23-31)
“Son of God”: 50%: Jesus' Father was the “HolySpirit”; NOT Joseph! (Mathew 1:18 / Mathew 1:20 / Luke 1:35)

Birth: Jesus was 50% HolySpirit(God)(Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35), 25% Levite(Priest) and 25% Judah(King)!
Baptism by John the baptizer, Jesus was filled with the HolySpirit(God) beyond measure! (John 3:34 / John 1:14)

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

September 19, 2010 at 8:58 pm#216826

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 20 2010,02:03)

Quote (barley @ Sep. 20 2010,00:20)

Quote

Where do you get off telling me and JA that we don't have scriptural truth?

I am sure you have some. But as Gene clearly pointed out and I concur, your focus is too narrow. You only see what you want to see. You see only one branch in a forest full of trees.

barley

HI Barley,

Could not your own analogy also apply to yourself? (Matt.7:2)

1Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, …(John 3:16)
even so in Christ shall all be made alive. (John 6:37-40)

Here is a chart as to why Jesus is called both the “Son of Man” and the “Son of God”…

Mother Father
Mary HolySpirit
50% 50%
\ /
\ /
Jesus
/ \
/ \
/ \
Son of Man Son of God
(Mark 6:3) (Luke 1:35)

Jesus complete lineage

Ed J,

Quote

Could not your own analogy also apply to yourself? (Matt.7:2)

No doubt. I am not Jesus Christ. Just so you know.

Quote

1Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, …(John 3:16)
even so in Christ shall all be made alive. (John 6:37-40)

Your point being what? If you have something to teach, do it.

I could just as easily said, “Read Genesis 1:1 through Revelation 22:21, so there. Na Na Na boo boo.”

Any fool can list scripture. Do you dare explain your point? would you care to explain what that has to do with anything that I have posted?

Quote

What does the combination of Eph.4:6 combined with Matt.1:18, Matt.1:20 and Luke 1:35 say to you?

Your point?

By the way Ephesians 4:6 is as follows: One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Let's start with “God is my Father. ” For God to have made me His son took a lot of love. A lot.

I John 3:1-2. Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

The Father only is God. John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

God is above all, through all, and in you all.

All who?

Context, all those who are sons of God. All those who God is the Father of. See Romans 10:9-10. Do that, you are saved, you become a son of God Almighty.

As a matter of truth, we are God's habitation.
Ephesians 2:22.
In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

The fulness of God dwells in us.
Ephesians 3:19,
And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

How's that?

God is also the Father of Jesus Christ. It is a wonderful truth.

Jesus Christ is a son of God, and I also am a son of God. All people who have done Romans 10:9-10 are sons of God.

We will forever be sons of God. I Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The seed by which I was born again is incorruptible. I am forever a son of God. Jesus Christ is forever a son of God
.

Jesus Christ was conceived by God planting seed in Mary. Thus he was born of Mary. I became a son of God by God planting incorruptible seed in me. Thus I was born again, from above, by God's seed in me. JC and I are brothers.

As for the rest of your post, your point?

Oh, before you go any further, how does Luke 1:5 show that Mary's mother's lineage was of the tribe of Levi? Elizabeth was not necessarily a first cousin. The word for cousin is kinswoman. They could have been tenth cousins. Yes, they were related and Mary's mother had some percentage of Levi blood in her. How much? The scriptures do not tell us, therefore, we do not know.

In Genesis 1 God makes sure that we recognize that everthing procreates after its own kind. That is horses must breed with horses (or a close relative) to produce progeny. Humans must breed with humans in order to produce progeny. More in detail, the male sperm must combine with the female egg to conceive. Angels cannot cohabitate with mankind. God, being spirit, John 4:24, cannot cohabitate with mankind. God, in order to have impregnated Mary, had to provide male sperm to impregnate Mary. Since God is spirit, He does not qualify as a human that could provide human semen with which to impregnate Mary. So, we are in a quandary, unless God created a sperm cell in Mary that had the choice human genetic code that would qualify JC as innocent blood. As the perfect passover lamb of God, one without spot or blemish.

As for the rest of your post..

You, too, might want to review what the scriptures say about how much God loves and cares for His own and how willing He is to supply the needs of those who come to Him, especially so, to His own children.

Do me a favor and spend a little time with those who do not understand God's loving care and show them by example that God does care for every detail of our lives. He is a loving, caring, tender hearted Heavenly Father to me. He wants to be that to you, too. All you have to do is let him.

Quote

Since JC was the offspring of David

does that not imply that

1. David preexisted Jesus Christ?

2. Jesse who was David's father preexisted David by one generation?

3. Jesse preexisted Jesus Christ by two generations?

Maybe you can answer these questions?

barley

September 19, 2010 at 10:12 pm#216840