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Quote (Tim Kraft @ Jan. 12 2011,02:10) To any: If a madman broke into your house and you were in the front room and your wife and kids were asleep in the bedroom and he said to you, is there anyone else in the house I am going to kill you all. Would you say no, there's nobody else, take me alone, showing the greatest love a man can show by laying down his life or would you sell out your family for the sake of a lie to their complete demise?
The greater love always wins! God bless, TK
Greetings Tim….An Ideal metaphor for an unusual circumstance,however,in the event that one is faced with the prospect of losing their life there is no time for a decision such as you layed out….the instinct of survival or abdication takes hold…in most cases a confrontation insues and you either overpower and prevail or in the case of abdication everyone is murdered…when God puts a person to a test such as that a prayer for courage and strength will be sufficient…cowardess results in disaster…Quote (theodorej @ Jan. 12 2011,23:27) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Jan. 12 2011,02:10) To any: If a madman broke into your house and you were in the front room and your wife and kids were asleep in the bedroom and he said to you, is there anyone else in the house I am going to kill you all. Would you say no, there's nobody else, take me alone, showing the greatest love a man can show by laying down his life or would you sell out your family for the sake of a lie to their complete demise?
The greater love always wins! God bless, TK
Greetings Tim….An Ideal metaphor for an unusual circumstance,however,in the event that one is faced with the prospect of losing their life there is no time for a decision such as you layed out….the instinct of survival or abdication takes hold…in most cases a confrontation insues and you either overpower and prevail or in the case of abdication everyone is murdered…when God puts a person to a test such as that a prayer for courage and strength will be sufficient…cowardess results in disaster…
Theodore: Let no man say when he is tempted/tested, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted/tested with evil, neither tempteth he any man. James1:13Matt.6:13…lead us not through/by temptation….!
God does not test or tempt anyone with evil. TK
Quote (Tim Kraft @ Jan. 12 2011,21:28) Irene: One thing I would not do is write long disertations and be kidding everybody!! Sharing truth and light is the only reason I am here. I came to Jesus and received the truth from Jesus that he has taken away my sin and the error/sin of the world. I was in sin but Jesus set me free. Jesus washed me clean of sin and death thinking. Jesus purified me through his word which I believe. You can believe anything you want to believe. I don't get angry with you, you seem to get angry with me. If you believe you sin everyday or all the time or are still in sin then that is your right to believe. For me I would be denying the work of Jesus and the gift of God to remain with a sin consciousness! If I am right in that God is all light and no darkness then how can we be in Christ/God if we have sin? There is no sin in God. Sin is darkness. Wrong thinking is darkness. Thinking you are in sin after coming to Jesus is wrong thinking. You say satan is real, I do not recognize satan as a being or entity. I do recognize lies and deceptions against the truth of which sin is one! IMO,TK
Tim! First of all I am not angry with anyone. However Scripture in John tells us in this flesh we will sin. It ts not that I sin every day, but I also will not deny that at times I do sin. However being under Jesus blood I am free, Paul says does that give us a license to sin? Of course not. the lust of the eye, the lust of wanting somethings we can't effort are all spiritual sins. Jesus magnified the Law and made it Spiritual meaning that if we are angry with our Brother we have committed murder in our hearts. Tim are you ever upset with any of your Family our friends? If the answer is yes, then you have sinned. Paul also said I do what I not to do, and don't do what I should do….
Peace IreneQuote (mikeangel @ Jan. 12 2011,21:49) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Jan. 12 2011,21:28) Irene: One thing I would not do is write long disertations and be kidding everybody!! Sharing truth and light is the only reason I am here. I came to Jesus and received the truth from Jesus that he has taken away my sin and the error/sin of the world. I was in sin but Jesus set me free. Jesus washed me clean of sin and death thinking. Jesus purified me through his word which I believe. You can believe anything you want to believe. I don't get angry with you, you seem to get angry with me. If you believe you sin everyday or all the time or are still in sin then that is your right to believe. For me I would be denying the work of Jesus and the gift of God to remain with a sin consciousness! If I am right in that God is all light and no darkness then how can we be in Christ/God if we have sin? There is no sin in God. Sin is darkness. Wrong thinking is darkness. Thinking you are in sin after coming to Jesus is wrong thinking. You say satan is real, I do not recognize satan as a being or entity. I do recognize lies and deceptions against the truth of which sin is one! IMO,TK
I do not believe this either. You really sound like a new-age or unitarian, which is your right, but is not based on the bible. You can't come to christ if you rationalize not following his commands or his daddy's. Also, I know from personal experience that satan exist, I met his agent, it was in my first wife, and manifested itself to my mom and I when she tried to exorcize her. Also another of his agents or him himself have talked me into doing many bad things. And afterwards looking back I could tell it was him. Tim, I know you won't ever listen to Godly logic and scripture about sin and the devil, so we will just agree to disagree. Just remember, when you discover something of yours stolen, or a family member raped, or murdered, or someone betrays you, its not sin and they don't have to answer for it and you have to live with your own logic. Peace-Mark
Mark! Let me show you that we are in the New Covenant and not the Old.
First the Old
Exd 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
Notice the words of the covenant.
also about the SabbathExd 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant.
Exd 31:17 It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day
Paul tells us this in
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Jesus gave us the New Covenant in
Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup [is] the new covenant in my blood, which is shed for you.
Then He gave us the great Commandment in
Mat 22:36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Jesus also magnified the Law and made it Spiritual, meaning if you are angry with your Brother you have committed murder in your heart etc.
Under Jesus blood we are save….Thanks go to our Heavenly Father that loved us so much that He gave us His only begotten Son, who died for us so we can live…..
Peace and love Irene
Quote (Baker @ Jan. 13 2011,00:59) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Jan. 12 2011,21:28) Irene: One thing I would not do is write long disertations and be kidding everybody!! Sharing truth and light is the only reason I am here. I came to Jesus and received the truth from Jesus that he has taken away my sin and the error/sin of the world. I was in sin but Jesus set me free. Jesus washed me clean of sin and death thinking. Jesus purified me through his word which I believe. You can believe anything you want to believe. I don't get angry with you, you seem to get angry with me. If you believe you sin everyday or all the time or are still in sin then that is your right to believe. For me I would be denying the work of Jesus and the gift of God to remain with a sin consciousness! If I am right in that God is all light and no darkness then how can we be in Christ/God if we have sin? There is no sin in God. Sin is darkness. Wrong thinking is darkness. Thinking you are in sin after coming to Jesus is wrong thinking. You say satan is real, I do not recognize satan as a being or entity. I do recognize lies and deceptions against the truth of which sin is one! IMO,TK
Tim! First of all I am not angry with anyone. However Scripture in John tells us in this flesh we will sin. It ts not that I sin every day, but I also will not deny that at times I do sin. However being under Jesus blood I am free, Paul says does that give us a license to sin? Of course not. the lust of the eye, the lust of wanting somethings we can't effort are all spiritual sins. Jesus magnified the Law and made it Spiritual meaning that if we are angry with our Brother we have committed murder in our hearts. Tim are you ever upset with any of your Family our friends? If the answer is yes, then you have sinned. Paul also said I do what I not to do, and don't do what I should do….
Peace Irene
Irene: Rather than go back over the same scriptures I have quoted many times before lets look at the fruit produced from a tree of good and evil.If there were a tree of good and evil the fruit produced from it would be, some good and some would make you sick or kill you. If some of the fruit being produced gave life and some of the fruit gave death, yet it looked the same, then all who ate or accepted the fruit from your tree would either live if the got a good piece or die if they got an evil/death piece.
If a person is connected into the tree of life/Jesus the fruit produced is Good! There is no bad or evil fruit produced from a good tree.There is no sin, no darkness, no imperfection, no weekness, no wrong etc. within the tree! Only love! A good tree cannot produce bad or evil fruit because it has no bad or evil/death in it.
What a person believes grafts him into either the tree of life/good or the tree of some good some evil. If one says they sin at any time then they are in/of sin. If a person believes they are imperfect then imperfect fruit will come forth from their lips. If one believes they are unclean, unworthy, unfit, sinful, evil, then they are connected to the tree of good and evil. They will have wishy/washy beliefs, like this is good, this is bad, should do this, shouldn't do that, I am sin free but sometimes I sin, I'm free in Christ but I gotta watch out I don't sin(whatever that is) or do a wrong what ever that is and many more man made evil doctrines. etc.
Your life will reflect back to you what you give out. If you sow good and evil you will receive good and evil in return. If you sow only good or the fruit of the spirit of God then peace, love, joy, meekness, kindness, gentleness, will come forth in your life. If there is evil in your personal beliefs then you know what you have been sowing. One that lives by the sword believing in, destruction, evil, hurt, pain, suffering, wars, tribulation, et.al. will live in that life and die by that same destruction sown.
I'd be careful following Paul to close. He was Saul before his conversion and was a Jewish killing machine of Christians previously in life. God Bless, TKTim, let me just finish saying to you, I am happy that you are perfect, like Jesus….I have given you good Scriptures what I believe. Whatever you do and say, one day you will have to stand in front of God and give account of that. So when John tells you that if you sin the truth is not in you, He was lying to us?
Also if what you say about the tree of Life, then you will live forever in the physical body, like if Adam and Ev would have never sinned? So is that what is going to happen NOW to you? Or is it after your death?
Satan is very much here yet, he is not put away yet. And he is the author of all sins. Rather then saying that you don't sin, I believe that we don't sin intentionally… most anyway…..And tell me why do we have a Mediator for? Who is Jesus Christ…You see in the old Test. times they had to scarify an Animal, which now we have our Mediator who is the perfect scarifies…
Also I have never come across a Scripture where it says that now we don't sin any longer. Can you give me a Scripture?
Peace IreneIrene: Jesus manifested to take away our sin 1John3:5…..now we have been made free from sin Rom8:2…..Jesus taketh away the sin of the world John1:29…..the blood of Jesus cleanseth us from all sin 1John3:7….if we confess our sin he is faithful and just to forgiv us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness 1John1:9…..repentance for the remission of sin was preached Luke24:47…..whosoever is born of God sinneth not 1John5:18…..(are you born of God?)!
I know these scriptures are a waste of time because you have made up your mind that you sin and remain in sin. That is apart from the truth of God and therefore a lie.
Jesus saw a man which was blind from birth and his disciples ask him….who did sin, this man or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents….John 9:3…..Then Jesus worked the power works of God in him and healed him.
Jesus was actually saying that neither the man nor his parents had ever sinned!Please just take note that if today, you and I must stand before God and be judged by his word only one of us believes that he is clean only through the words of Jesus. The other one believes that if they say they have no sin the truth/words of Jesus/ words of God are not in them. How will the word of God judge those two? Peace and truth to you, TK
Tim,
Fair enough, you said that I didn't quote scriptures. I apologise. I have read the post again and found several things, I will list them and the scriptures I believe refutes them. Also, I didn't mean to talk down to you or attack you. I need to be more careful on how I word disagreements. I still consider you a child of God and a friend. I'll make your statements bold.
Please just take note that if today, you and I must stand before God and be judged by his word only one of us believes that he is clean only through the words of Jesus. The other one believes that if they say they have no sin the truth/words of Jesus/ words of God are not in them. How will the word of God judge those two?
“Two men went up to the temple to pray; one was a Pharisee, the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee with head unbowed prayed in this fashion: ‘I give you thanks, O God, that I am not like the rest of men- grasping, crooked, adulterous- or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week. I pay tithes on all I possess. 13 The other man, however, kept his distance, not even daring to raise his eyes to heaven. All he did was beat his breast and say, ‘O God, be merciful to me, a sinner.’ 14 Believe me, this man went home from the temple justified but the other did not. For everyone who exalts himself shall be humbled while he who humbles himself shall be exalted.”IMO If you claim not to ever sin, you are exalting yourself, but like here, the one who asks for mercy will be forgiven
Jesus was actually saying that neither the man nor his parents had ever sinned!
(Yet if we consult Psalm 14:1-7 and Psalm 53:1-6, from which the quotations in Romans 3:10-12 are taken, we shall be constrained to admit that their original application is nothing short of universal. The Lord is represented as looking down from heaven, (not upon the Jewish people only, but upon the “children of men” at large, “to see if there were any that did understand and seek God);” and declaring, as the result of his unerring scrutiny, “there is “none” that doeth good, no, not one.” Jesus was sayin that his condition was not due to their sinning, but that he might give God glory through healing him. Jesus never said anyone was sin free. imo that doesn't make senseIf you sow only good or the fruit of the spirit of God then peace, love, joy, meekness, kindness, gentleness, will come forth in your life.
Job 1 v 8-11 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my aservant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?9Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
10Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11But put forth thine ahand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will bcurse thee to thy face.
Job was blameless, but god tested him, like he does all his sons, to get rid of impuritys. Satan is real here, and is an adversary, and God does test the blameless. Job is one of my personal heros.
I'd be careful following Paul to close. He was Saul before his conversion and was a Jewish killing machine of Christians previously in life. God Bless, TK
Tim this seems contradictory to what you profess. You state that one is perfect/clean/sinless in Christ. Paul was a slave of Christ and died for him,and had a miraculous conversion and was chosen by Christ himself, yet you question his genuineness and warn others by telling them to be careful about following him? . Everybody has a pathway to God.
John 14:6 (New International Version, ©2010)6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Tim, I am just saying, I do not agree with your rationale. The truth of God's spirit in me says there is law, Gods law, fulfilled in Jesus, and in effect until the last day. Peace and love-Mark
Mark: You have searched the Bible to support your bottom line belief that you are in sin or sin or are a sinner. You say or imply that you follow Jesus but if you did you would see that HE made you clean. Jesus did the works that gave believers freedom from sin. The word of God, Jesus, is the judgment of God in the last day. The last day for each separate individual is when they decide to accept what Jesus did for us, finished and complete. A whole man of God by faith. We can't earn it by doing or not doing. We can't earn it in any way shape or form. It is the gift of God. What is the gift of God. Jesus is the gift of God. The truth or who we are now. And faith is the way to access God with a clean mind, washed by the blood, a perfected man through the works/words from God/ of Jesus.
What possible law would a man need if he rules his kingdom of God within him, by the fruit of the spirit of God. If we have truly tapped the tree of life(Jesus) which has the life force of God witin then we as branches will produce perfect fruit. One cannot believe he has sin or is in sin and graft into the tree of life.
Tell me, which of these two ways of affection between a man and his little three year old girl are the greater love. Daddy commands the little girl, come, now and sit on my lap, now and hug me and show me love or I will torture you for all eternity!! Another Daddy has tenderly loved his little girl and would rather she stay across the room and play with her toys that she loves if that is what she prefers. Yet suddenly, she leaves her toys and comes over to him, climbs up on his lap and hugs and kisses him by her own choice. There is no love in the first example!
Laws and rules in a son of God cause sin and death. If you have a boss that tells you, get it done by noon!! or a boss that says, man, if possible, I really need this by noon, which one will you work harder for?
We can't make ourselves mentally clean before God. Lies and untruth have passed down through generations that we are sinful creatures and we have proliferated that mentality to our own offspring. I don't believe the original sin has anything to do with obeying God. If Jesus is correct and God is pure love then read what love is and isn't. One thing love does not do is tell people what to do or rule another by commands or demands. Love can make suggestions but not commands. Love allows mankind to choose and do, knowing they will reap that which they sow.
What law could govern better than reaping whatsoever you sow or give out. Its not a punishment. You dished out what you want to return to you or you better change your ways. You cuss a person out eventually you get cussed out! Sow destruction and reap destruction. Sow sin consciousness, reap sin! Sow laws and rules and regulations, reap the same. Total fairness IMO!
I have never claimed or intended to claim that I was not in sin just like all are. Sin is in the mind! Sin is not, doing or not doing! At this point sin is a study for me but I will still claim that at this point I believe that sin is believing a lie of separation from God. Sin is believing that anything you do can separate you from God. God is everywhere, within and without. The only way to sin is choosing to believe that something you did or didn't do has separated you from union with God. I know I'm going to take some heat for this one so I'll close for now! God Bless you Mark, TK
Tim,
I am with you on several things. I do believe that a man is tempted by sin and lust of this world (money, power, sex etc.)and the good want to do good. I believe that when a man does sin, the devil takes that and says “ah ha, you did it, you are bad, and sinful, just like me, so now if you can do that, then you can do this” and the downward spiral begins. I believe thats where multiple demons come from. I know you don't believe in the devil but just listen for now, it's the way that I do agree with you. Now, at any time, that person can come to his senses and reflect to himself ” I was weak, and I sinned, but I do love God and want to do right, forgive me Lord and help me to do better” and he is forgiven, and helped. The separation from God is broken, and he is restored. But so many times, like the parable of the sower attest, the lure of money or worldly worries or test comes and he has his faith plucked away. This is stated by Jesus to be satan at work. I agree with you in that one needs to only come to his senses and turn of the sinful allurements of the world and focus on God's love and his sacrifice for us on the cross, and turn off arrogance and pride, and ask God for restoration. And you get it. Free. No charge. God paid the price.Now, this is where we differ-To be a child of God means that you have to obey him and do what he requires of you. He said “my Mother and brothers and sisters are those who do the will of my father”. That requires faith and action, not just talk. That requires obedience to his commandments. That is plain from the very beginning. God made the world perfect, but, he made it with a test. An easy one that was very clear- “You may eat of any tree in the Garden except the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, that one you cannot eat, lest you die”, and they did, and realized they were naked. It appears to me you would like to say “ok, It's all in our minds, let's goo back there and not eat of the tree and be sinless”, but we can't. It happened. It was the fall of man, to be reconciled only by Jesus' sacrifice, but still, even with believing in his son and our spirit is cleansed, we are still imperfect and sinful until judgement when we hopefully get the “not guilty” verdict.
You said I needed to show you scriptures, and I did. Also you didn't answer the questions I asked,especially the one about Paul and his testimony.
Lastly, I wasn't quoting you possible senereos of sin to express sinful desires of mine. It was to make a point. God has blessed me with an incredible wife. If God gave me a by, adn said “without fear of retribution, pick any woman on the planet and you could make love to her” I would walk straight up to my wife. She is my better half. I asked that from the perspective of my first wife. When she was in the hospital from a suicide attempt, she developed a relationship with another patient, and even got a tatto with him. I bugged our phone and caught them. They were convinced it wasn't wrong, like you profess, but the law still stands, until the last day “You shall not commit adultry”. Also on one of her trips she went to a bar and got wasted and went home with someone. The next day she couldn't look me in the eye and addmitted to it. To that guy, he was problibly thinking ” She is here, her ol man doesn't care, so it's mine for the pickin ” justifying it. But, she had a ring on, was married, and will pay for it someday if he does not repent. Repent, Tim, means admiting to God you are wrong and asking forgiveness. If you don't do that, you can't be forgiven. To be forgiven you have to repent, and what I understand you to say is you don't have to be sorry for anything and believe you are perfect, which is extreeeeeeemly dangerous, imo. Peace and love my friend-Mark
Quote (mikeangel @ Jan. 13 2011,23:32) Tim,
I am with you on several things. I do believe that a man is tempted by sin and lust of this world (money, power, sex etc.)and the good want to do good. I believe that when a man does sin, the devil takes that and says “ah ha, you did it, you are bad, and sinful, just like me, so now if you can do that, then you can do this” and the downward spiral begins. I believe thats where multiple demons come from. I know you don't believe in the devil but just listen for now, it's the way that I do agree with you. Now, at any time, that person can come to his senses and reflect to himself ” I was weak, and I sinned, but I do love God and want to do right, forgive me Lord and help me to do better” and he is forgiven, and helped. The separation from God is broken, and he is restored. But so many times, like the parable of the sower attest, the lure of money or worldly worries or test comes and he has his faith plucked away. This is stated by Jesus to be satan at work. I agree with you in that one needs to only come to his senses and turn of the sinful allurements of the world and focus on God's love and his sacrifice for us on the cross, and turn off arrogance and pride, and ask God for restoration. And you get it. Free. No charge. God paid the price.Now, this is where we differ-To be a child of God means that you have to obey him and do what he requires of you. He said “my Mother and brothers and sisters are those who do the will of my father”. That requires faith and action, not just talk. That requires obedience to his commandments. That is plain from the very beginning. God made the world perfect, but, he made it with a test. An easy one that was very clear- “You may eat of any tree in the Garden except the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, that one you cannot eat, lest you die”, and they did, and realized they were naked. It appears to me you would like to say “ok, It's all in our minds, let's goo back there and not eat of the tree and be sinless”, but we can't. It happened. It was the fall of man, to be reconciled only by Jesus' sacrifice, but still, even with believing in his son and our spirit is cleansed, we are still imperfect and sinful until judgement when we hopefully get the “not guilty” verdict.
You said I needed to show you scriptures, and I did. Also you didn't answer the questions I asked,especially the one about Paul and his testimony.
Lastly, I wasn't quoting you possible senereos of sin to express sinful desires of mine. It was to make a point. God has blessed me with an incredible wife. If God gave me a by, adn said “without fear of retribution, pick any woman on the planet and you could make love to her” I would walk straight up to my wife. She is my better half. I asked that from the perspective of my first wife. When she was in the hospital from a suicide attempt, she developed a relationship with another patient, and even got a tatto with him. I bugged our phone and caught them. They were convinced it wasn't wrong, like you profess, but the law still stands, until the last day “You shall not commit adultry”. Also on one of her trips she went to a bar and got wasted and went home with someone. The next day she couldn't look me in the eye and addmitted to it. To that guy, he was problibly thinking ” She is here, her ol man doesn't care, so it's mine for the pickin ” justifying it. But, she had a ring on, was married, and will pay for it someday if he does not repent. Repent, Tim, means admiting to God you are wrong and asking forgiveness. If you don't do that, you can't be forgiven. To be forgiven you have to repent, and what I understand you to say is you don't have to be sorry for anything and believe you are perfect, which is extreeeeeeemly dangerous, imo. Peace and love my friend-Mark
Thanks Mark: There are several misunderstandings that you believe I accept.I believed just like you and almost every person on this site along with all the churches and denominations for the first ten years of Bible study with church. After I left the religious world and began on my own things began to change.
This is not a world set up to test humans and see if they can walk a straight line or not. James said,…say not when ye are tempted that ye are being tempted/tested by God….God tests nobody!! This also aligns with love. Anything you accept as a truth from God must aligh with LOVE!
This world imo, was designed for God to be able to experience all aspects of himself/life as thought apart from himself. To come to earth each had to loose himself. Total amnesia as to who and where he came from. We are from God, pieces of
God if you will. We have always had the mind of Christ but it has been veiled from awareness while we learn from experience. Had we always known who we were in God we would probably not put up with alot of the pain and suffering we brought to ourselves unknowingly.
In the beginning was God/good! The truth is there was no evil. There was nothing but good/God. Evil was a lie/you call them devils. Evil was an illusion purpatrated as truth that man accepted as part of life. By believing this lie/illusion mans
mind was split into good and evil. One side the truth and one side, if you will, an illusion of evil. Once man believed in evil/death he began to separate from life and enter further into death. Hence the fall of man away from God, further and further yet God never moved. Mans awarenes of God was continually being cover or blocked by illusionary lies or
untruth. There came to be no way that man understood of to reconnect with God. He became dull of hearing. Illusionary Lies and untruth of what God required, what God wanted, and how to appease an angry God kept pushing the mans awareness away from God. This is religion, mans illusionary
ideas about God. Man passed down these lies and deceptions about God for generations. Darkness had fallen. The light of truth was being covered. Sin and darkness was ruling mankind. They were staggering around in darkness not knowing which way to go for God. Then the truth came in the form of Jesus. Untainted truth to correct the wrong thinking
man had created. God was revealed as spirit of life, within a believer not out somewhere. The power within revealed when Jesus did his healing works and cast out darkness/untruth with his words from God. Whatsoever things you ask/demand when you pray/meditate the power of God, believe that you
receive them and ye shall have them. Mans circumstances in life are governed by the words of his mouth. Your mental attitude draws to your experience in life what you think and feel. Ask anything you desire and it shall be done for you in heaven/spirit.
This is the world to experience and feel love as duality with freedom to choose whatever side you want to experience. Lies have bound us for too long!! More if you wish later.
Obeying God is easy. Love everyone, everything, hold nothing against anyone, offer others their freedoms, no restrictions in and of yourself. You are the king of your kingdom of God. Not sombody elses Kingdom, just your kingdom. Total freedom! TK
Quote (Tim Kraft @ Jan. 13 2011,00:14) Quote (theodorej @ Jan. 12 2011,23:27) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Jan. 12 2011,02:10) To any: If a madman broke into your house and you were in the front room and your wife and kids were asleep in the bedroom and he said to you, is there anyone else in the house I am going to kill you all. Would you say no, there's nobody else, take me alone, showing the greatest love a man can show by laying down his life or would you sell out your family for the sake of a lie to their complete demise?
The greater love always wins! God bless, TK
Greetings Tim….An Ideal metaphor for an unusual circumstance,however,in the event that one is faced with the prospect of losing their life there is no time for a decision such as you layed out….the instinct of survival or abdication takes hold…in most cases a confrontation insues and you either overpower and prevail or in the case of abdication everyone is murdered…when God puts a person to a test such as that a prayer for courage and strength will be sufficient…cowardess results in disaster…
Theodore: Let no man say when he is tempted/tested, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted/tested with evil, neither tempteth he any man. James1:13Matt.6:13…lead us not through/by temptation….!
God does not test or tempt anyone with evil. TK
Greetings Tim…..You are correct God does not temp with evil but he does allow trials and in some cases tribulation so as to strengthen ones faith or in some cases judgement…Quote (theodorej @ Jan. 14 2011,03:19) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Jan. 13 2011,00:14) Quote (theodorej @ Jan. 12 2011,23:27) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Jan. 12 2011,02:10) To any: If a madman broke into your house and you were in the front room and your wife and kids were asleep in the bedroom and he said to you, is there anyone else in the house I am going to kill you all. Would you say no, there's nobody else, take me alone, showing the greatest love a man can show by laying down his life or would you sell out your family for the sake of a lie to their complete demise?
The greater love always wins! God bless, TK
Greetings Tim….An Ideal metaphor for an unusual circumstance,however,in the event that one is faced with the prospect of losing their life there is no time for a decision such as you layed out….the instinct of survival or abdication takes hold…in most cases a confrontation insues and you either overpower and prevail or in the case of abdication everyone is murdered…when God puts a person to a test such as that a prayer for courage and strength will be sufficient…cowardess results in disaster…
Theodore: Let no man say when he is tempted/tested, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted/tested with evil, neither tempteth he any man. James1:13Matt.6:13…lead us not through/by temptation….!
God does not test or tempt anyone with evil. TK
Greetings Tim…..You are correct God does not temp with evil but he does allow trials and in some cases tribulation so as to strengthen ones faith or in some cases judgement…
theodore: Sir, God bless you. I noticed in your response that you mentioned God allowing this or that. May I respond?God will allow you to go to a rooftop and mass murder people if you choose to do so! God is not pulling strings allowing some things and disallowing others. If God were controlling this earth there would be peace, love and joy in abundance. God gave the earth to mankind. It is mans duty to protect her or destroy her. Gods hands (if you will) are tied. God is bound by his word. God can only intervene on your behalf when you ask for his help. IMO!
Jesus said that in “the world” we would have tribulation. The world he was talking about was the old, religious, Jewish, world order that was passing away.(John15:18 then look at V25)
Jesus promised us that persecution, affliction would arise because of the word/truth. Many that aren't grounded and firmly rooted will hear the good news with joy but when persecution and affliction arise (mostly from religious hierarchy) that say, no, we are in sin and there must be pain and suffering for God, then, likely, the word/seed is uprooted and destroyed. Remember, liars(satan) come immediately to choke the word and make it unfruitful.
The testing of one faith always comes after they hear the word of truth with joy and immediately, lies and deception come to kill, steal and destroy the joyus truth of God word.
To come to God one must: Believe that he is and that he is a rewarder of those who diligently search for him!! Peace to you and yours through Christ! TKQuote (Tim Kraft @ Jan. 14 2011,00:26) Mark: To come to earth each had to loose himself. Total amnesia as to who and where he came from. We are from God, pieces of God if you will.
TK
Hi Tim,Most here don't understand this. …I'm glad you do!
2Tm.1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling,
not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace,
which was given [[[us]]] in Christ Jesus before the world began, (John 15:27)“The Word” in us!
John 15:27 And ye also shall bear witness (by the HolySpirit),
because [[[ye]]] have been with me from the beginning.
Acts 12:24 “The word” of God grew and multiplied(in us).God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgTim,
First, if you would be so kind to answer my question on Paul, and why you warn about following him, even though he was a devout follower and apostle of Christ, and died for him. According to you he is sinless/blameless/perfect. Please explain.Second, I do not believe that one can shed original sin. Also, you believe that the world will be transformed into the Kingdom of God by understanding perfection, and not by destruction and judgement. You say peace and love are what matters and you are right, but scripture states that is not how things will end. Luke 12v51 “Do you think that I have come to establish peace on earth? I assure you, the contrary is true;I have come for division”. And he has . The muslim world hates us, passionately, and because of our idols and turning away from God and worship of sports etc. ,the world will be delivered into enemy hands, but hopefully God's Israel, his sheep, will escape first. Then will come WRATH.
Luke 11:51 >>
New International Version (©1984)
from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.Third, you mentioned the last judgement in Revalations, and said that only the dead were judged, and the “perfect thinkers”were not. Revalation 20v12- “I saw the dead, the great and the lowly, standing before the throne. Lastly, among the scrolls, the book of the living was opened” ( The dead are those who died once, the first death, and were judged like you and me are going to be) “The dead were judged according to their conduct on the scrolls” (Yes, this means your conduct does matter, and there is a record of everything you do, it is written, and it is the truth)…..v14 “Then death and the nether world were hurled into the pool of fire, which is the second death; anyone whose name was not found inscribed in the book of the living was hurled into this pool of fire.” (That leaves the living). Note that The dead were judged according to their conduct. Also in ch14 v 13 “I heard a voice from heaven say to me: happy now are the dead who die in the Lord!” These are wiitten as “dead”, but also happy, because they are dead but died in the Lord. Also the spirit adds “Yes, they shall find rest from their labors, for their good works accompany them.” This plainly states that your works do matter, because they are performed because of and in unison with your faith in Jesus, which gives glory and honor to the Father. Also, Satan is definately described as a person, opposed to God, which is literally cast into the pool of fire.
But Tim, i agree with what you say in some ways- for instance Jesus says that “The truth will set you free” I agree with that . My faith in Jesus and knowing that as his child sin is abhorrent, my mind leads me to good things mostly. I am not the devils toy or whipping post, because even if I sin out of weakness, God is always there, and loves me no matter what. Like Paul said, does that mean that I can do as I please or sin to show God's mercy? Certainly Not! God convicts my concience even when I don't realize I have done anything wrong, and when I think back and reflact on it, I realize why he made me feel that way, and I tell him I'm sorry and to help me, and he restores me (too much to explain now). I am free. Anyway I hope you are well and blessed my friend- Love,Mark
Quote (Tim Kraft @ Jan. 14 2011,08:09) Gods hands (if you will) are tied. God is bound by his word. God can only intervene on your behalf when you ask for his help.
Hi Tim,Did you read Chapters 8, 9 & 10 of “HolyCityBibleCode”?
Because your spirit seems to understand this “Bible Truth”!Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Tim Kraft @ Jan. 12 2011,23:03) Mark & Mike: You both challenged my truth as non-biblical without quoting one scripture! Your truth is as you say and believe. If in my twenty thousand and more hours of Bible study I am willing to share with inquiring minds that want to know a deeper truth, then I will continue to respond. If you wish to call me names or degrade me I will stop.
Hi Tim,You're not referring to me, are you? I thought we had a good, respectful conversation in the other thread. And I've only posted one sentence on this thread.
You do know that mikeangel is called “Mark”, not “Mike”, right?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeangel @ Jan. 14 2011,08:27) Tim,
First, if you would be so kind to answer my question on Paul, and why you warn about following him, even though he was a devout follower and apostle of Christ, and died for him. According to you he is sinless/blameless/perfect. Please explain.Second, I do not believe that one can shed original sin. Also, you believe that the world will be transformed into the Kingdom of God by understanding perfection, and not by destruction and judgement. You say peace and love are what matters and you are right, but scripture states that is not how things will end. Luke 12v51 “Do you think that I have come to establish peace on earth? I assure you, the contrary is true;I have come for division”. And he has . The muslim world hates us, passionately, and because of our idols and turning away from God and worship of sports etc. ,the world will be delivered into enemy hands, but hopefully God's Israel, his sheep, will escape first. Then will come WRATH.
Luke 11:51 >>
New International Version (©1984)
from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.Third, you mentioned the last judgement in Revalations, and said that only the dead were judged, and the “perfect thinkers”were not. Revalation 20v12- “I saw the dead, the great and the lowly, standing before the throne. Lastly, among the scrolls, the book of the living was opened” ( The dead are those who died once, the first death, and were judged like you and me are going to be) “The dead were judged according to their conduct on the scrolls” (Yes, this means your conduct does matter, and there is a record of everything you do, it is written, and it is the truth)…..v14 “Then death and the nether world were hurled into the pool of fire, which is the second death; anyone whose name was not found inscribed in the book of the living was hurled into this pool of fire.” (That leaves the living). Note that The dead were judged according to their conduct. Also in ch14 v 13 “I heard a voice from heaven say to me: happy now are the dead who die in the Lord!” These are wiitten as “dead”, but also happy, because they are dead but died in the Lord. Also the spirit adds “Yes, they shall find rest from their labors, for their good works accompany them.” This plainly states that your works do matter, because they are performed because of and in unison with your faith in Jesus, which gives glory and honor to the Father. Also, Satan is definately described as a person, opposed to God, which is literally cast into the pool of fire.
But Tim, i agree with what you say in some ways- for instance Jesus says that “The truth will set you free” I agree with that . My faith in Jesus and knowing that as his child sin is abhorrent, my mind leads me to good things mostly. I am not the devils toy or whipping post, because even if I sin out of weakness, God is always there, and loves me no matter what. Like Paul said, does that mean that I can do as I please or sin to show God's mercy? Certainly Not! God convicts my concience even when I don't realize I have done anything wrong, and when I think back and reflact on it, I realize why he made me feel that way, and I tell him I'm sorry and to help me, and he restores me (too much to explain now). I am free. Anyway I hope you are well and blessed my friend- Love,Mark
Mark: God bless you: That remark was a bit tongue in cheek about Paul because most people will follow what Paul says even when it disagrees with Jesus. I think most of his writings were mistranslated not actually in disagreement.I feel so much love for your desiring heart unto God. I know you want to know the truth of God. If you were to recognize instantly how perfect you are and how clean Jesus has made us I do believe you would jump for joy.
Its a bit unique to think that something a man believed ten thousand or more years ago which caused a feeling of separation from God would still bind the mind of a man. Refering to Adams “sin”!
We probably both agree that eating a wrong piece of fruit would not cause the most High God to condemn mankind to death and destruction forever?
You say love commanded the man not to partake. I say love does not control or command. Its an improper word translation. The same thing is offered today as was offered to Adam. God says,..I have set before you good and evil(beliefs, not deeds) now choose….but choose life that you and your family might live!
If you continue to choose the mental bondage of sin which you believe is an eternal condition, never to be shed, then you must die in your sin/evil beliefs. No sin can have communion with God. There is no sin in God.
Your other choice given to you at great price is salvation from sin and death. Who can save us from sin? Jesus came and told us the truth. That he has made us clean by the truth of God. He broke the chains of misunderstanding, the bonds of error of thinking that we are stuck in sin and all wrong thinking that led us to death and destruction.
The Bible has two kinds of examples to follow. One example follows the way of sin and death and physical works to please God and one example is the new way of Jesus Christ which is by faith that all was completed by Jesus and handed to mankind on a gold platter. This is perfection of man by faith, not by anything we have done or will do. If is finished! If you say yes, I believe and accept the cleansing of Jesus for unity to God then as the lightning flashes from the east to the west, in the twinkling of an eye, you are returned to total perfection in God. Saved from wrath but heir of the blessings!
Jesus brought peace and joy to the believers in him. Those that hated him remained in death and destruction, pain and suffering on the outside of God where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. That is the division Jesus caused.I believe Jesus cursed the old Israel when he cursed the fig tree and told it not to bear any more fruit. All are one in the new way of Jesus. We are all the chosen of God. No names, Jew or Greek or male or female or bond or free. ALL ONE!
Wrath has always been on the ungodly. Wrath will destroy evil. Wrath is upon the sinner. One who believes in sin. The word of God and the fire of the Holy Spirit will burn away all evil THINKING. There are no evil people. Just people that don't think correctly.
If you want to read a translation that actually says “happy are the dead” that is your business. Every new translation takes what is already mistranslation and amplifies for deeper error!
I anyone thinks that their works, as in deeds, either considered good or bad have any effect on their gift of salvation by faith then they are doomed to working their own salvation. Believing for perfection and doing good deeds for perfection in God do not mix.
Perfection is by faith in the work of Jesus. This creates the deepest love imaginable which expresses to the world as fruit of the spirit. (good works) IMO, TK
PS Jesus didn't say the truth would set you free. To be set free would mean you were actually bound. You were not actually bound it was an error of thinking or sin thought. Jesus said the truth will MAKE you free!
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,13:06) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Jan. 12 2011,23:03) Mark & Mike: You both challenged my truth as non-biblical without quoting one scripture! Your truth is as you say and believe. If in my twenty thousand and more hours of Bible study I am willing to share with inquiring minds that want to know a deeper truth, then I will continue to respond. If you wish to call me names or degrade me I will stop.
Hi Tim,You're not referring to me, are you? I thought we had a good, respectful conversation in the other thread. And I've only posted one sentence on this thread.
You do know that mikeangel is called “Mark”, not “Mike”, right?
peace and love,
mike
Mike: God bless you. I am so sorry. In my ignorance I was anaware which of you said what. Am I bad? I promise to try to keep things straight. I love the questions, they challenge my truth. I own nothing. I am ready to change my beliefs as truth comes my way. You both have some of what I need. I appreciate your time. Bless you both, MIKE and Mark. TKQuote (Tim Kraft @ Jan. 14 2011,21:32)
I am ready to change my beliefs as truth comes my way.TK
Hi Tim,I hope you are serious saying this.
James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word,
and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
1John 2:3-4 And hereby we do know that we know him,
if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and
keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)
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