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Hi Tim
That is pretty whacked if a church teaches tithing on welfare, unemployment, social security, pensions and the like.-Later
Quote (gnipp gnopp @ Mar. 22 2008,02:20) Quote (david @ Mar. 21 2008,04:16) Quote L A W that's a funny way to spell old, unless your putting a little 'spin' on things. –gnipp gnopp
(2 Corinthians 3:14)
But their mental powers were dulled. For to this present day the same veil remains unlifted at the reading of the old covenant, because it is done away with by means of Christ.In some translations of the Christian Greek Scriptures the word di·a·the′ke is variously rendered “covenant,” “will,” “testament” (testamentum, Vg). However, M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopaedia (1891) says, under “Covenant”: “There seems, however, to be no necessity for the introduction of a new word [other than “covenant”] conveying a new idea. The Sept[uagint] having rendered [berith′] (which never means will or testament, but always covenant or agreement) by [di·a·the′ke] consistently throughout the O.T., the N.T. writers, in adopting that word, may naturally be supposed to intend to convey to their readers, most of them familiar with the Greek O.T., the same idea. Moreover, in the majority of cases, the same thing which has been called a ‘covenant’ (berith′) in the O.T. is referred to in the N.T. (e.g. 2Cor. iii, 14; Heb. vii, ix; Rev. xi, 19); while in the same context the same word and thing in the Greek are in the English [in KJ] sometimes represented by ‘covenant,’ and sometimes by ‘testament’ (Heb. vii, 22; viii, 8-13; ix, 15).”
Repeatedly in the book of Hebrews (Heb 7:22; 8:6, 8, 9, 10; 9:4, 15, 16, 17, 20) the writer uses the word di·a·the′ke with undeniable reference to a covenant in the old Hebrew sense, even quoting from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and referring to “the ark of the covenant.” In translating these verses of Jeremiah, the Greek Septuagint uses di·a·the′ke for the ancient Hebrew berith′, meaning “covenant.” Also, Hebrews 9:20 quotes from Exodus 24:6-8, where a covenant is unmistakably spoken of.
Anyway, this old covenant, was the law covenant. Read the scripture in full context.
Giving me the definition of covenant is a funny way to comment on the words old or law. Well, I guess it is an election year. I wonder how you would define the word is?-Later
Greetings GG…..To quote a certain President ” It depends on your definition of what IS IS “…Quote (gnipp gnopp @ Mar. 22 2008,02:20) Quote (david @ Mar. 21 2008,04:16) Quote L A W that's a funny way to spell old, unless your putting a little 'spin' on things. –gnipp gnopp
(2 Corinthians 3:14)
But their mental powers were dulled. For to this present day the same veil remains unlifted at the reading of the old covenant, because it is done away with by means of Christ.In some translations of the Christian Greek Scriptures the word di·a·the′ke is variously rendered “covenant,” “will,” “testament” (testamentum, Vg). However, M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopaedia (1891) says, under “Covenant”: “There seems, however, to be no necessity for the introduction of a new word [other than “covenant”] conveying a new idea. The Sept[uagint] having rendered [berith′] (which never means will or testament, but always covenant or agreement) by [di·a·the′ke] consistently throughout the O.T., the N.T. writers, in adopting that word, may naturally be supposed to intend to convey to their readers, most of them familiar with the Greek O.T., the same idea. Moreover, in the majority of cases, the same thing which has been called a ‘covenant’ (berith′) in the O.T. is referred to in the N.T. (e.g. 2Cor. iii, 14; Heb. vii, ix; Rev. xi, 19); while in the same context the same word and thing in the Greek are in the English [in KJ] sometimes represented by ‘covenant,’ and sometimes by ‘testament’ (Heb. vii, 22; viii, 8-13; ix, 15).”
Repeatedly in the book of Hebrews (Heb 7:22; 8:6, 8, 9, 10; 9:4, 15, 16, 17, 20) the writer uses the word di·a·the′ke with undeniable reference to a covenant in the old Hebrew sense, even quoting from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and referring to “the ark of the covenant.” In translating these verses of Jeremiah, the Greek Septuagint uses di·a·the′ke for the ancient Hebrew berith′, meaning “covenant.” Also, Hebrews 9:20 quotes from Exodus 24:6-8, where a covenant is unmistakably spoken of.
Anyway, this old covenant, was the law covenant. Read the scripture in full context.
Giving me the definition of covenant is a funny way to comment on the words old or law. Well, I guess it is an election year. I wonder how you would define the word is?-Later
the law covenant is the old covenant. It was replaced by the “new” covenant. The reason for the definitions is so that we're not confused by the wrong use of the word “testament” in the scripture I quoted.And I'm really not sure what you meant by spin? I took it to mean that you didn't think the law covenant was the old covenant.
Is that correct?
Quote (gnipp gnopp @ Mar. 22 2008,02:32) Quote (david @ Mar. 21 2008,12:03) Quote Yes after His death we find Paul making reference to the Holy Days and what they portray (or teach, if you like) for the new covenant christians and that they were keeping these annual Sabbaths [Holy Days] (1Cor 11 where Paul also reaffirms Christ's change to the passover and shows how they were not keeping the passover properly). gnipp gnopp, are you referring to the “lord's evening meal”? (1 cor 11:20)
I'm referring to a passover ceremony that Paul commented on as he referred to a passover ceremony where Jesus instituted new proceedures for keeping the passover.-Later
Could you give me a specific scripture? Thankyou.Quote (david @ Mar. 22 2008,17:04) Quote (gnipp gnopp @ Mar. 22 2008,02:32) Quote (david @ Mar. 21 2008,12:03) Quote Yes after His death we find Paul making reference to the Holy Days and what they portray (or teach, if you like) for the new covenant christians and that they were keeping these annual Sabbaths [Holy Days] (1Cor 11 where Paul also reaffirms Christ's change to the passover and shows how they were not keeping the passover properly). gnipp gnopp, are you referring to the “lord's evening meal”? (1 cor 11:20)
I'm referring to a passover ceremony that Paul commented on as he referred to a passover ceremony where Jesus instituted new proceedures for keeping the passover.-Later
Could you give me a specific scripture? Thankyou.
When did you decide that JW wasn't right for you any longer?
-LaterQuote (Guest @ Mar. 21 2008,20:14) Quote (TimothyVI @ Mar. 21 2008,04:52) Quote (doctorex @ Mar. 21 2008,03:58) Tim
I've never tithed of my “personal forune” either, I tithe of my increase, just as Abraham did. No matter how we choose to look at it, He did give a tithe:
And exactly how do you achieve that fortune if not thru increase? And yet you have never tithed on your personal fortune. It was never said that Abraham ever gave 10% of all he had accumulated while he was accumulating it.I totally believe in giving because the LORD loves a cheerful giver. But tithing of 10% of your gross income is totally unscriptural. Jesus never tithed, his apostles never tithed and Paul never said that anyone following Jesus should tithe.
And when the Jews did tithe it was only on the increase of the products of the land, not money. And they did have money back then.Do you realize that fishermen never tithed, carpenters never tithed, only land owners who were commanded to return 10% of their gain in animals or produce in order to help feed the widows and the poor. Even then it was not the first 10% as the church says. A cattleman was supposed to give the tenth cow to walk under the rod. If he only had nine cows he did not even give.
Sorry I got on my soapbox. I despise the thought of the church robbing from poor people on welfare who are afraid to not tithe because they have been told that God will curse them.
The church preaches tithing to extort money from the flocks that fear being cursed by God.
Tim[/quote]
I was only recently called into a relationship with God, and have been tithing in my increase from when he called me, and not on gross. I don't tithe because of fear of being cursed, I tithe because I want to. Why would Paul or Jesus teach to tithe when it was already part of the Law? It's just like the Sabbath, people say Jesus never said to observe the Sabbath, but he didn't have to, it was already a given. As for people on welfare etc, why would they tithe? It would be like the chiurch helping out the poor and asking for it back, but that's another story altogether. Besides, I'm not telling you to tithe, that's between you and God.
Greetings……I would think your personal fortune is a gift from God…and with a greatfull appreciative heart you should give cheerfully….Many times opportunities to extend kindness in the form of remunation are before us sometimes a simple Tip of a generous nature can go a long way for a person who is earning their living waiting on tables….
With reference to the poor…The likes of the pastors of these Mega Churches in their glutenous want for riches are the ones who impose financial burdens on the poor in the form of obligitory tithing….God said the poor will always be with us,however,in this country we fail to see the diference between the poor and the lazy so we pay them all…”A man is to earn his keep by sweat of his brow”Quote When did you decide that JW wasn't right for you any longer?
-Later
Being a witness for Jehovah will always be right for me. He is deserving of the glory and honor and of having his name and purpose spoken of.
And it makes sesne to congregate with othes who feel similarly.Are you attempting to change the subject?
Quote (david @ Mar. 25 2008,12:27) Quote When did you decide that JW wasn't right for you any longer?
-Later
Being a witness for Jehovah will always be right for me. He is deserving of the glory and honor and of having his name and purpose spoken of.
And it makes sesne to congregate with othes who feel similarly.Are you attempting to change the subject?
I agree that it is good to fellowship with people of like mind. So I'm wondering why you're talking to me and why I'm talking to you? If I'm not interested in converting to the way you walk and your not interested in learning to walk the way I do, then we are doing each other a disservice.I have given you scriptural reference to things I've stated and how I see it, yet you ask for scriptural reference and ask what am I saying.
All this being, three scriptures come to mind, here are two:
1Tim 1/4-8
Tts 3/8-11They work for whichever way one is walking.
-Later
Quote I have given you scriptural reference to things I've stated and how I see it, yet you ask for scriptural reference and ask what am I saying.
I only asked the once and I was asking for which specific scripture you were referring to. You stated:Quote Yes after His death we find Paul making reference to the Holy Days and what they portray (or teach, if you like) for the new covenant christians and that they were keeping these annual Sabbaths [Holy Days] (1Cor 11 where Paul also reaffirms Christ's change to the passover and shows how they were not keeping the passover properly).
I looked through 1 cor 11 and I was wondering which verses you were actually referrring to. That's all.Quote So I'm wondering why you're talking to me and why I'm talking to you?
Because logically, one of us must be completely wrong. And I feel that the truth is something that is important.Also, i guess you said this:
Quote If you really want to draw it out further, if the 10 commandments were done away with then there really was no need for Paul to correct the corinthians in their mishandling of a sinning brother to begin with. Then I said this:
Quote Please explain using scriptures. Then you said this:
Quote No scripture is needed for this statement. If the law was done away, the man was not guilty of sleeping with is father's wife and the church rightly showed grace and was wrongly chastised by Paul. All I wanted was the scripture you were referring to where Paul was correcting the Corinthians as you say, of their mishandling of a sinning brother.
Quote (david @ Mar. 26 2008,11:42) Quote I have given you scriptural reference to things I've stated and how I see it, yet you ask for scriptural reference and ask what am I saying.
I only asked the once and I was asking for which specific scripture you were referring to. You stated:Quote Yes after His death we find Paul making reference to the Holy Days and what they portray (or teach, if you like) for the new covenant christians and that they were keeping these annual Sabbaths [Holy Days] (1Cor 11 where Paul also reaffirms Christ's change to the passover and shows how they were not keeping the passover properly).
I looked through 1 cor 11 and I was wondering which verses you were actually referrring to. That's all.and
Quote (david @ Mar. 26 2008,11:48) Also, i guess you said this: Quote If you really want to draw it out further, if the 10 commandments were done away with then there really was no need for Paul to correct the corinthians in their mishandling of a sinning brother to begin with. Then I said this:
Quote Please explain using scriptures. Then you said this:
Quote No scripture is needed for this statement. If the law was done away, the man was not guilty of sleeping with is father's wife and the church rightly showed grace and was wrongly chastised by Paul. All I wanted was the scripture you were referring to where Paul was correcting the Corinthians as you say, of their mishandling of a sinning brother.
David
Please accept my apology. As you laid out your replies, I now believe I see that you didn't understand why I referenced whole chapters or books. I feel that there are times for whole chapters to be read and not just a couple of verses, for a thought to be conveyed.Using dessert as an example. If I offered you a bite of the end corner of a slice of cheese cake (50% cake & 50% crust) you would walk away with a different impression of what cheese cake is about. To get the full experience and favor you need to have a whole slice with sliced apple topping, apple syrup, whipped topping and yes even sprinkles of cinnamon. That is why I offered you a full serving.
I forget that some do not view things in such manner and it was wrong of me to assume you did. I had also assumed you knew part of the reason that Corinthians was written. Again sorry. I do recommend from time to time that maybe you slow down and savor the full flavor.
david,Mar. wrote:Quote
Because logically, one of us must be completely wrong. And I feel that the truth is something that is important.
You are right in that the truth is important, however, your logic is flawed, for both could be wrong too.Regardless, both of us being solid in our different walks it is ridiculous to continue this subject. Each of us may as well be conversing with a rock, and how silly is that?
-Later
April is here and where are all of Mr.Weinlands People? Chickened-out I guess. Even tho our Economy is rather slow, but we still have lots of food to buy.
So sorry for them, I wonder how they must feel right now.
Peace and Love Mrs.I'm reading these books now.
I was already leaning toward some of the stuff he is saying…however there are some points that I'm not all to sure about.
I do believe that a lot of religions have some of the truth and not the “Whole” truth…like they all “Claim” to have. Which in my opinion withholding the truth is the say thing as telling a lie. If you know a truth and withhold it in order to support a “Self-Made” “New” religion or Doctrine…your just as dirty as Satan…if not a tool of Satan.
But thats just my two cents.
I'll let you know more about this guy once I get through with the books…if I don't get disgusted first. Because if he goes off saying how hes something that he is not…then I will not want to hear any more.
Samuel We belonged to the W,W, Church of God for 18 years and Mr. Weinland was our Assistant Minister. Just can't think and understand that He would be one of the 12 Witnesses. I started reading one of His Book, but got disinterested in it. Not for me, and time will tell. April is here, and no Nukes so far.
Prove all thing Sam and just watch it. O K. Many Antichrist will come and have come in there end times.
Peace and Love Mrs.I'm watching it…
I watch everything. I do agree with some of his views…however some of them I don't know if they are altogether “Truth” or not.
I'm going to the church to pray now. I will pray about these things that I am studying…and test the spirits.
Quote (seek and you will find @ April 02 2008,08:32) April is here and where are all of Mr.Weinlands People? Chickened-out I guess. 
Chickened out? If they're anything like me they stopped posting because they were sick of their account disappearing and having to re-register all the time, even after attempts to activate it.Quote (seek and you will find @ April 02 2008,08:32) Even tho our Economy is rather slow, but we still have lots of food to buy.
So sorry for them, I wonder how they must feel right now.Oh please don't feel sad for us, we're all feeling just fine thanks, and you aint seen nothing yet.
Quote (Samuel @ April 02 2008,13:53) I'm reading these books now. I was already leaning toward some of the stuff he is saying…however there are some points that I'm not all to sure about.
I do believe that a lot of religions have some of the truth and not the “Whole” truth…like they all “Claim” to have. Which in my opinion withholding the truth is the say thing as telling a lie. If you know a truth and withhold it in order to support a “Self-Made” “New” religion or Doctrine…your just as dirty as Satan…if not a tool of Satan.
But thats just my two cents.
I'll let you know more about this guy once I get through with the books…if I don't get disgusted first. Because if he goes off saying how hes something that he is not…then I will not want to hear any more.
Greetings Samual….When you finish RWs'books you will find a man of conviction,which I might say ,draws his conviction and boldness from an interpretation of scripture that causes you to rethink the truths you hold near and dear and in the process you might see that you have come to believe things that you really don't know why you believe….point of reference ….you might want to listen to his 3/29 sermon on his website….go to the audio section and go to the green border at the bottom of the page and click twice and open the MP3 link….
The man speaks of the consecuences should his prophesy prove to be false…..Quit simply he will admit to being a false prophet….
Quote (seek and you will find @ April 02 2008,14:04) Samuel We belonged to the W,W, Church of God for 18 years and Mr. Weinland was our Assistant Minister. Just can't think and understand that He would be one of the 12 Witnesses. I started reading one of His Book, but got disinterested in it. Not for me, and time will tell. April is here, and no Nukes so far.
Prove all thing Sam and just watch it. O K. Many Antichrist will come and have come in there end times.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Greetings Mrs….There are only Two witnessesJust wondering if anyone knows how Ron Weinland's prophecies were revealed to him. I was reading through a little bit of his second book last night and I didn't catch him mentioning anything about how his revelations came about.
Was it through a dream or did an angel or Yeshua visit him?
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