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Hi Karmarie,
I hope you are well.
I think the big difference lies between modern English and Biblical Hebrew and Greek. The Hebrew word “el” simply meant a “mighty one”. It was similar with the Greek “theos”.
Paul called Satan a “god”. He said there were many who were called “gods”. Jesus was one of those “mighty ones”. It is when translators capitalize the g when referring to Jesus as a “god” that it gets confusing. We could have properly said in those days, “Alexander the Great is the god of war”. If you served in his army, you might even call him “my god”, because he is “your mighty one whom you serve under”. But that doesn't mean you consider him THE God. Anyway, that's how I understand it.
As far as denying Jesus as my Lord and Savior under threat of death: Never. It is those who die for the sake of his name that will be in the first resurrection. Plus, he said that those who disown him, he will also disown before his Father.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (karmarie @ June 22 2010,12:41) Hi Nick. But what about the title also of God? One Almighty God the Father AND the Lord God Jesus His Son? Because it seems this is what they used to say, (though knowing there was The One Almighty God alone but also the Son)
Wouldnt this be classed as having 2 Gods? And is that why they were persecuted and killed in such a strict monotheistic society?
Who called him “Lord God”?mike
Hi Mike, im well thankyou, hope your well too.
You asked
Quote Who called him “Lord God”? …”but of the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever; And the sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of thy kingdom”.
..Thomas answered him, “”My Lord, and my God!'“
Or Ignatius…
“But our Physician is the Only true God, the unbegotten and unapproachable, the Lord of all, the Father and Begetter of the only-begotten Son.
We have also as a Physician the Lord our God, Jesus the Christ, the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For “the Word was made flesh.” (VII).
Hi KM,
The last guy has no credibility.
Thomas was taught about God AND Christ in Jn 14
There are many gods often mentioned in scripture but for US? ONE GODHi Nick, Ignatius loved God and the Son so much he wished to die so he could be with them, He was a Saint and Martyr. He was taught by the Apostles themselves. So I would think He had alot of credibility.
Hi KM,
Do you rate catholic saints?“God knows those who are his
“
Ignatius was not among those anointed ones.
Dying for falsehood has always been a popular vanityNick, I have to go but Ignatius was a Martyr IMO, please read this, with the letter to the Romans further down the page.
Hi KM
Travelling over land or sea to make proselytes does not prove truth.
Even those who give their bodies to be burnt may be following delusions.Quote (karmarie @ June 22 2010,13:07) Hi Mike, im well thankyou, hope your well too. You asked
Quote Who called him “Lord God”? …”but of the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever; And the sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of thy kingdom”.
..Thomas answered him, “”My Lord, and my God!'“
Or Ignatius…
“But our Physician is the Only true God, the unbegotten and unapproachable, the Lord of all, the Father and Begetter of the only-begotten Son.
We have also as a Physician the Lord our God, Jesus the Christ, the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For “the Word was made flesh.” (VII).
Hi K,None of these say “Lord God”. And all of them fit into the loose usage of the word “god” for a “mighty one”. Fill in the “gods” with “mighty one” once. You'll see that no one is calling Jesus the Almighty One here.
Your throne, O mighty one……because YOUR mighty one has placed you above your companions.
My Lord and my mighty one.
We also have as a physician the Lord our mighty one …..(who was begotten by the only “unbegotten” who is the ONLY TRUE GOD.)
IMO, every writer here knew that Jesus, although being a mighty one -or god – was NOT THE Almighty One – or God.
mike
To All,
Mike is right in his contrast of 'God [Almighty]' and all other references to 'God', or 'god'…
This has been gone over so many times. It is as if the 'few people' in this forum have repetitive amnesia.
Oh, i forgot, you do. Did i already say that?
It's like the few people in this forum have repetitive amnesia.
What is 'God'? The word 'God' is a Title, 'like 'Mister', 'Mistress', 'Sir', 'Judge', 'Lord', etc., and denotes a 'Station', a 'position of note', a 'distinguished one', etc., All in a 'seat…' of high power and authority … Relative to others.
Everything is heirachical:
Man is 'god' over the animals;
A Woman is …god… over Children
A Man is ,,,god… Over a Woman;
Some of Mankind are …god… Over others of Mankind;
Jesus is …god… Over Mankind;
YHVH is …god… Over Jesus.Since YHVH is …god… Over ALL, it means that He and He alone possesses ALL Power and ALL Authority and occupies the Highest Position, the Superior position, the high ground, the 'Mount', the 'High Chair', the 'Throne'.
'Throne' means 'Seat of power and authority'.
YHVH is in the form of Spirit…YHVH 'IS' Spirit.
Spirit does not possess a physical body therefore requiring a physical 'seat' to sit in. This 'physical seat' is from human perception. Drop it….please, think Spiritual and all will be clear.YHVH's 'Throne' is His 'Position of All Power and Authority'. He can share that Power and Authority with whom He will and He does so with His Son, Jesus Christ.
This does not mean that Jesus now 'owns' his Father's power and authority, it means he 'shares it' and is as Mighty with it as YHVH Himself is… Because the Power and Authority is the same. (A lethal weapon is a lethal weapon no matter whose hand it is in…true, some [Humans] are better users than some but remember, it is only given to 'them that qualify to use it')
Jesus 'sitting' at the righthand of his Father…Spirits do not possess physical 'left' or 'right', so 'at his righthand' does not mean 'physical right'.
It means 'In the Strength of One'.In one verse in Scriptures it also says that God is at Jesus' 'righthand'…so how can Jesus be at God's righthand..if God is at Jesus' righhand..ha! Because the thinker is thinking 'physical'…stop it, please…think Spiritual!!!!
Ok, back to 'God'.
Because there is only one Supreme …god… Over ALL, we give that one the first letter CAPITALISED title 'God' and implicitly agree that anything written 'God' is …. Contextually… Refering to 'YHVH', God ALL Mighty, God Almighty.
However, that would all be too simple and some might believe from sheer observance of Scripture and Satan is not unaware of 'best disruptive practices'.
So, thus, and therefore, confusion arises where there need not be, in that, instead of devising a different title for 'Amighty God' and 'different levels' of the heirachial order, the same title letters written: 'GOD', 'God' or 'god', are used, and it is left up to the translators and readers to interpret their own contextual idea of which level is being refered to.
In fact, it is quite simple: Only YHVH is 'God Almighty'.
Every other reference containing such as 'O God', 'My God', 'Your God', 'Their God', means 'O Mighty One' 'My Mighty One', 'Our Mighty One', 'Your Mighty One'…and does not imply 'The Mighty One', YHVH, God Almighty.
Read and understand: To the Philistines, Dagon was 'God', and 'their God', 'a Might God' (Note the 'indefinite article ['a'] as opposed to the 'Definite' article ['the'])
Read back over Mike's post with this knowledge in mind and all will be clear, unequivocally.
Hi all,
I know this has been gone over endlessly but I havent followed any of those discussions.
I realise there is only one God Almighty, Obviously Thomas, Ignatius, and so on knew there was Almighty God the Father AND Jesus, but what I really want to know is, do any of you non Trinitarians use the title God (or god) for Jesus also, Not the Almighty God but next to God, right hand side (I know Ja its not a literal throne, I worked that out a long time ago). If Thomas, Ignatius and others addresed Jesus as 'My Lord and my God', could you…do you..do the same?
A thought: It seems that if we take the term God and add a name of any kind, we create in our minds an individual.That would be limiting. Also whatever a person believes God to be to him, is what God is (to him). There are as many Gods as there are people. Each sees a different view of God from a different path. In truth, God is all and in all. In the beginning of our comprehension and awareness was God. God was all that was. Everything that is came from all that was. From minus 0 to the 31st power energy, a quark of living plasmic energy,in a matrix completely entangled into ONE existence. All that is, all that was and all that will be is in God.
Now we have the greatest teacher ever in Jesus telling us that God is love and God,he and us are all ONE together. We are all in God. There is no outside of God because God is all there is. The idea of God being off somewhere or coming or going is totally in the mind. God will never leave you he has no place to go that he isn't already there! Nothing you do can separate you from God! Its what you believe that can cause you to believe that you are apart from or separated from God. Those beliefs are lies! You are always one with God.All relationships with God (including the belief of no God) are within the mind. Thoughts either enlighten and give awareness of who you are or they darken your mind so that you can't see the truth of who you are and have always been. God bless, TK
Quote (karmarie @ June 22 2010,20:18) Hi all, I know this has been gone over endlessly but I havent followed any of those discussions.
I realise there is only one God Almighty, Obviously Thomas, Ignatius, and so on knew there was Almighty God the Father AND Jesus, but what I really want to know is, do any of you non Trinitarians use the title God (or god) for Jesus also, Not the Almighty God but next to God, right hand side (I know Ja its not a literal throne, I worked that out a long time ago). If Thomas, Ignatius and others addresed Jesus as 'My Lord and my God', could you…do you..do the same?
Karmarie………..To me the saying my lord and my God, came about when it finally dawned on Thomas that GOD the FATHER, was indeed (IN) Jesus. GOD the Father was literally there with Jesus. Here is some clues, remember when Jesus spoke these words, “destory this temple and in three days i shall raise it up”. Let me paraphrase this for you, OK, (GOD) SPOKE THROUGH JESUS' MOUTH AND SAID DESTROY THIS (TEMPLE) AND IN THREE DAY (I) GOD, SHALL RAISE (IT) THIS TEMPLE UP. That was (NOT) Jesus speaking it was GOD speaking through him. God considers us temples He can and does (INDWELL) GOD was present (IN) Jesus and Speaking (through) him. So Thomas Just came to realize this and said my Lord (Jesus) and My GOD (the FATHER) (IN) Jesus. Two Beings present in ONE Body.peace and love to you and yours…………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 23 2010,03:52) Karmarie………..To me the saying my lord and my God, came about when it finally dawned on Thomas that GOD the FATHER, was indeed (IN) Jesus. GOD the Father was literally there with Jesus. Here is some clues, remember when Jesus spoke these words, “destory this temple and in three days i shall raise it up”. Let me paraphrase this for you, OK, (GOD) SPOKE THROUGH JESUS' MOUTH AND SAID DESTROY THIS (TEMPLE) AND IN THREE DAY (I) GOD, SHALL RAISE (IT) THIS TEMPLE UP. That was (NOT) Jesus speaking it was GOD speaking through him. God considers us temples He can and does (INDWELL) GOD was present (IN) Jesus and Speaking (through) him. So Thomas Just came to realize this and said my Lord (Jesus) and My GOD (the FATHER) (IN) Jesus. Two Beings present in ONE Body. peace and love to you and yours…………….gene
Ah- I get that, thanks Gene.Quote (Tim Kraft @ June 22 2010,22:58) A thought: It seems that if we take the term God and add a name of any kind, we create in our minds an individual.That would be limiting. Also whatever a person believes God to be to him, is what God is (to him). There are as many Gods as there are people. Each sees a different view of God from a different path. In truth, God is all and in all. In the beginning of our comprehension and awareness was God. God was all that was. Everything that is came from all that was. From minus 0 to the 31st power energy, a quark of living plasmic energy,in a matrix completely entangled into ONE existence. All that is, all that was and all that will be is in God.
Now we have the greatest teacher ever in Jesus telling us that God is love and God,he and us are all ONE together. We are all in God. There is no outside of God because God is all there is. The idea of God being off somewhere or coming or going is totally in the mind. God will never leave you he has no place to go that he isn't already there! Nothing you do can separate you from God! Its what you believe that can cause you to believe that you are apart from or separated from God. Those beliefs are lies! You are always one with God.All relationships with God (including the belief of no God) are within the mind. Thoughts either enlighten and give awareness of who you are or they darken your mind so that you can't see the truth of who you are and have always been. God bless, TK
Hi Tim thats a good post. But remember then it would mean its ok to reject YHVH and Jesus and go after some other god. So I dont think its that simple.Quote (karmarie @ June 22 2010,20:18) I realise there is only one God Almighty, Obviously Thomas, Ignatius, and so on knew there was Almighty God the Father AND Jesus, but what I really want to know is, do any of you non Trinitarians use the title God (or god) for Jesus also, Not the Almighty God but next to God, right hand side (I know Ja its not a literal throne, I worked that out a long time ago). If Thomas, Ignatius and others addresed Jesus as 'My Lord and my God', could you…do you..do the same?
Hi K,My answer is no. Not because I don't adore and praise and honor Jesus as the “mighty one” who died so I could have the opportunity to dwell in God's presence. But simply because the word “god” has different implications today than it did in Biblical times.
For example, if I say “Jesus is a god”, then I'm a polytheist in most peoples eyes – even though what I said is scripturally correct and in no way makes me a polytheist.
And if I lose the “a” and just call Jesus “my Lord and god”, then I am a trinitarian in most peoples eyes. In our society, “my lord and god” sounds like I think he is THE God, because we don't view “god” as just “mighty one” anymore. When we say “god” in our culture, it is usaually understood that we are talking of either God, or some man-made triad of persons in a godhead.
Why confuse people? I can get by just fine with Messiah, Christ, Jesus, the Lamb of God, the Word, Lord of lords, King of kings, savior, etc.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (t8 @ Sep. 12 2009,09:48) Romans 10; 9-11
]If you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord; and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, “YOU WILL BE SAVED”.For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and ARE SAVED! anyone who trust in him will never be put to shame.The above verse is often quoted as being the prerequisite for salvation.
However, it must be noted that the letters of Paul were written to believers and it could be argued that belief is what is required after other prerequisites such as baptism in the name of Yeshua.
What do others think. Is Romans 10: 9-11 a salvation verse for all including the unsaved, or advice on how to keep your salvation if you have been baptised into Christ.
yes, it is enough. Please look at who Paul is talking about in Romans 9-11. He is discussing Judeans and Gentiles, not those in the church of God. The Judeans and Gentiles are not yet saved. In Romans 12:1, he starts with brethren, brethren who are saved. Them he exhorts to do more, ie, be transformed by the renewing of the mind. Why? so that we utilize that gift of salvation for useful godly means and end.Consider the parable of the forgiving father, more commonly called, the prodigal son. When the son left the house of his Father, did the son cease to be a son? No. Was the son damned to eternal hellfire? No. The father was anticipating the safe return of the son to the privileges,responsibilities and benefits of the Father's house. Salvation is a gift, it is up to us to live up to the standards of the nature and Giver of that gift.
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