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Quote (Tim2 @ June 05 2007,07:42) 94, “He who searches the hearts and minds” is a Biblical title for God. Do you agree? So if Paul uses this of Jesus in Romans 8:27, then it means Jesus is God.
But you are reading Romans 8:26-27 in a deliberate attempt to detract from the omniscience of Jesus, when Jesus isn't even mentioned in the passage. Why don't you confess along with the disciples, “Lord, you know all things”? John 16:30. So again, Jesus isn't mentioned in Romans 8:26-27 but you assume it's Him, He who searches the hearts is a consistent Biblical title for God, the Intercessor described in the passage is the Holy Spirit, and “because” is given to show the mind of the Spirit being known by God because of the Spirit's intercession for the saints. I have no idea how this detracts from Revelation 2:23.
And you still haven't answered John 16:14. You assert that Romans 8:26-27 shows that Jesus is dependent on the Spirit for knowledge, even though it doesn't say that, but you won't answer a direct Scripture showing in fact that the opposite is true.
John 16:14 and Romans 8:27 together show that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit know each other's minds perfectly and share all things completely. How does this detract from their Godhead?
Hebrews 1 is a perfectly clear statement that Jesus is God. You think the Brightness of God's glory isn't God? So the Brightness is something created? It becomes something less than God when it is generated from God? And you think the Brightness didn't even exist until Jesus was born 2000 years ago? The Brightness was foreordained? God didn't always have Brightness?
And the express image of God's person, that is generated from the Father as His Brightness, isn't God? So in what respect is it lacking, if it isn't God?
And someone other than God upholds all things by the Word of His Power? Nonsense.
Tim
TimAgain, AMEN!
Hi Tim2,
You say
“You think the Brightness of God's glory isn't God?”Well only if the glory of the Son is also the Son.
Jn 1
” 14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. “Your God is too small if you think He is just His glory.
Isaiah 42:12
Let them give glory unto the LORD, and declare his praise in the islands.Logic is a useless tool apart from scripture.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2007,09:12) Hi Tim2,
You say
“You think the Brightness of God's glory isn't God?”Well only if the glory of the Son is also the Son.
Jn 1
” 14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. “Your God is too small if you think He is just His glory.
Isaiah 42:12
Let them give glory unto the LORD, and declare his praise in the islands.Logic is a useless tool apart from scripture.
NHCan you look at the brightness of Gods Glory and the express image of his substance and not be looking at God NH?
Hi Tim2,
You say
“John 16:14 and Romans 8:27 together show that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit know each other's minds perfectly “Add in 1Cor 2
“9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.”
So the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God.
Does this Spirit have a mind too.
Goodness me!Hi Tim2:
You wanted me to elaborate on the following scripture
And you still haven't answered John 16:14. Jphn 16:14
He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.He explains this statement in the following verse:
John 16:15
All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.Heb 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, WHOM HE HATH APPOINTED HEIR OF ALL THINGS, by whom also he made the worlds;I also want to share the following scripture that shows why Jesus searches the minds and hearts:
John 5:20
For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
5:21
For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
5:22
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:Inasmuch as the Father (that is God) hath committed all judgment unto the Son. This shows that he is not God but that he has been given this authority, but if he is the judge, then why do you go around telling people that unless they believe your doctrine they are not saved or that they are going to hell. I believe that you need to repent and to appologize to Not3in1, and to any one else that you have told this lie.
God was angry with me at one point in time during my walk with him and I can assure you that you do not want him angry with you. It is one thing to discuss our understanding of the scriptures, but it is another thing to take the role of judge. That authority was given by God to Jesus, and not to you.
Hebrews 10:30
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
10:31
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.Quote (Not3in1 @ June 08 2007,13:50) 94, thank you for you kind words and direction concerning the Word of God. 
Hi Not3in1:John 10:4
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
10:5
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
10:11
I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.Mt 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.God Bless
I agree with Greg from earlier post. The present teaching of the soul in churches today is wrong. God breathed into man and he became a living soul (ie being) At death, the breath, the spirit which gives life, returns to God and man returns to dust. Our hope as was the hope of the patriarchs, was the coming of the messiah and the hope of the resurrection of which Christ was first to be resurrected with the immortal body. Others had been brought back to life, but only Christ possessed the immortal body spoken of by Paul in his epistles. The teaching an immortal soul with man comes from Plato and others who taught the false doctrine of the immortality of man, some even perverting it to the point of re-incarnation.
Hi WF,
Man is body, soul and spirit[1thess5]
The home of the soul is sheol in the earth.
Abraham saw the day of Christ and rejoiced.Quote (wildfire007 @ June 11 2007,07:57) I agree with Greg from earlier post. The present teaching of the soul in churches today is wrong. God breathed into man and he became a living soul (ie being) At death, the breath, the spirit which gives life, returns to God and man returns to dust. Our hope as was the hope of the patriarchs, was the coming of the messiah and the hope of the resurrection of which Christ was first to be resurrected with the immortal body. Others had been brought back to life, but only Christ possessed the immortal body spoken of by Paul in his epistles. The teaching an immortal soul with man comes from Plato and others who taught the false doctrine of the immortality of man, some even perverting it to the point of re-incarnation. AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! No, No, No, Jesus not God or as you say, YHWH. Remember the verse where Jesus is asked about the time of the end and he explicitly told his followers that no one knows the time of the end, not even the angels in heaven nor the himsel, but only God. There is only one God, not three. There is only one Son of God. Many have claimed to be the Son or the messiah promised… . And it is by this Son who we can only be saved. We must believe He is the Son of God and live a llife which is in obedience to God. We believe by faith even tho we haven't seen. Jesus told Thomas he was blessed in having seen and believed, but also blessed were those who have not seen yet believe. That is hope we share in that we who have not seen, yet we believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and the Savior sent by God to save those who believe in His name.
I disagree, Nick. There is no home for the soul in sheol. You must look at the original manuscript in Hebrew and you will see that Sheol is the place of the dead, the grave. All who have died from Abraham to David to those of this present day are there awaiting the trumpet of God which will announce the resurrection. The died with the hope of the coming messiah and the hope of a resurrection, else their faith had been in vain. We have a body with the breath of life within us, llife in the blood. Apart from that llife we we are but lumps of clay, decaying in death.
Hi WF,
Jesus expounded on Hades and the bosom of Abraham in Lk16.
I prefer his words to the BU view of men as just spirit and body .
Only the second death can destroy both the body and the soul[Mt10]Quote (Tim2 @ June 02 2007,15:59) Jesus said, in Revelation 2:23, “And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am He which searcheth the kidneys and the hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.” Jesus declares that He does two activities that belong solely to God: searching the hearts and minds, and recompensing everyone according to their works. Below are the relevant Scriptures, but I can already hear the reply: “God does it through someone else.,” as if God forgot to mention in the Old Testament that He really was doing it all through someone else. Clearly not, for Romans 11:36 says that all things are through God, not someone else.
Psalm 7:9 -“The righteous God tries the hearts and kidneys.”
Psalm 26:2 -“Examine me, O YHWH, and try me. Test my kidneys and my heart.”
Jeremiah 11:20 -“But, O YHWH of Hosts, who judges righteously, who tries the kidneys and the heart …”
Jeremiah 17:10 -“I, YHWH, search the heart, I test the kidneys, even to give to each man according to his ways, according to the results of his deeds.”
Psalm 62:12 -“And lovingkindness is Yours, O Lord, for You recompense a man according to his work.”
Romans 2:5 -“… the righteous judgment of God, who will render to each person according to His deeds.”Jesus is explicitly declaring Himself to be YHWH here.
Tim
Hi,
The letters written to the churches via their angels by Jesus Christ do not apply to the world but to those in Christ.Rev2
1Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write;Christ lives in them and they share the mind of Christ so Christ indeed is the one who knows their hearts.
Any comparison, therefore, with how God knows the hearts of all men is not a valid argument.
Hi,
19.Proverbs 16:2
All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the Lord weigheth the spirits.22.Proverbs 20:27
The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord, searching all the inward parts of the belly.The spirit God lends to man for life is never separate from the Father of spirits.
He knows our hearts by it
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