Revelation 17:9-11 explained

[Berean]

 

 

 

 

T8

 

 

I know it’s a subject
difficult but it can be unlocked for you as it was unlocked for me.

I want you to know that

1) Daniel and John are in harmony

There are no more heads with Daniel.
than with Jean because history is history;
simply to John is…
revealed the broader things and other elements that complement Daniel

In Revelation, the emphasis is on
the fifth head when she was,(chap.13)
then her judgment when she’s in the wilderness(chap.17) when she’s gone.
John does not speak from his time (Gentile Rome)
He speaks (the angel) shows the beast in the
wilderness and that’s when the fifth head is gone,
and from there the angel shows the judgment of the whore when the beast was (538-1798)

I’m also going to specify for the sixth…
head and also the 7th

The seventh head: the “one is”

The “one is” head is the head that dropped the fifth head;
likewise…
that the second dropped the first, the third dropped the second and the fourth dropped the third.
and that the fifth one brought down
the fourth. OK

The “one is” head is the head that dropped the fifth head;
It happened in 1798.

But does the bible speak of a
power (beast) that came to power in that period of time?

The answer is yes
We find it in Revelation 11:7.

“And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast coming up out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.”

 

[GeneBalthrop]

Berean…….the one that “is”,  is speaking of the Sixth kingdom to come on this earth, it is the one that hits the the image on the feet of Iron and Clay , that is the kingdom of Jesus Christ and the Saint’s.  We are now living in that Fifth kingdom period, of the Babyloian type of kingdoms. Just read what Daniel says about that kingdom period, it fits this present world condition right now. The next to come will be the Sixth kingdom of rule on this earth of Jesus and the Saint’s,  Satan will be put into the bottomless pit, and the Babyloian type of kingdoms will be abolished until the end of  the millennial regin of Jesus and the Saint’s.  Just that simple. AND THE THE SEVENTH AND EIGHTH KINGDOMS WILL RISE UP ON THIS WORLD FOR A SHOT TIME, at the end of that millennial reign .

Non of those  Babylon type kingdoms have anything to do with religions,  but are  world rulling  economic and military powers. Because all the wold religions existed within all of them, and no religion ever concurred the whole world at anytime and that includes today also.

Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

 

 

[Berean]

 

“Hey Berean, can’t say much right now, on way to work but yes, Rev 20:7 – Satan is let loose from being bound (to deceive the nations).

Being bound: what did that mean to you /all.”

Hi miia

When someone is bound, he cannot act freely; likewise when Satan shall be bound, he will no longer be able to tempt the nations.

The reason is that the earth will be empty of its inhabitants during the millennium. Because
on the return of jesus
then all the unrepentant will perish “by the breath of His mouth”, and “by the brightness of His coming” (2 Thessalonians 2: 8).
So there will be no one left on earth except Satan and demons who will no longer be able to tempt anyone.

The righteous will be safe in heaven with Jesus from God.
Martyrs to Attend Forsaken Millennium Judgment

Revelation 20

[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Be blessed

[GeneBalthrop]

T8……YOU ARE CORRECT, but Daniel shows Six kingdoms not four or five, the fifth kingdom is the one we are in right now, the Sixth comes next and that is the kingdom JOHN is speaking from as the “one that is”.  And after the sixth kingdom of Jesus Christ and the Saint’s,  comes the seventh and eighth,  and they only last for a short time 3 1/2 years, and the comes God the Father and destroys them. And he takes over all the earth as the king of all kings.  

There never was a papal world ruling kingdom, the papacy never ruled the entire world, not then nor now.

Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene

[Berean]

 

T8

 

Hi

In one of your posts you write this down :

“The Ottoman Empire was dismantled after WWI. It became an empire when it conquered the Roman Empire in the eastern leg, but existed as a rising power before then. So it’s reign was about  1453 – 1924.

According to this view, the following are part of the beast.

Egypt – 3100 to ?
Assyria – 2500 BC to 605 BC
Babylon – 612 – 539 BC
Medo-Persia – 539 – 331 BC
Greecia – 331 – 168 BC
Rome – 168-476 AD / 1453 AD – inc Byzantine period
Ottoman – 1453 – 1924

The beast died at this point but will rise again as an Islamic Empire once again. That is there will be an eighth that is of the seventh or seven.”

 

If we start with Egypt as
first head,
and that we believe that John
considered the heads at his time (the moment when he receives the visions),
we have Greece as the last fallen head (the fifth)
According to this “view”
Rome is the sixth (the one is)

The seventh says Rev.17 should not last long.

Questions / problems? ??

John said, “The beast that you saw was, and it is no longer. It must rise from the bottomless, and go to perdition.”

You think he’s talking about the seventh head (Ottoman)
But you see, but in John’s time, this head was not there yet and John could just say: when it comes, it will not last long.
In this point of view, the head “which was and which is not any more” should be Greece (the last fallen in the time of John)

Another problem:
The seventh you think is an Ottoman,
Rev.17 says it will last “shortly”
According to your data the Ottoman Empire lasted 471 years (1453AD -1924 AD)

DO YOU FIND IT SHORT-TIME?
It’s more than all the other kingdoms apart
Assyria

 

471 Years    A SHORT TIME FOR YOU  ????

 

[Berean]

The 1260 years of Papal Supremacy

Catholic writers attest to 12 centuries of Papal Supremacy and Sovereignty:

And now that the temporal power of the Roman Pontiffs belongs to the past, that the head of the Church must under heaven depend for its maintenance upon the generosity of his spiritual children throughout the world, that a usurper holds the throne from which the Pope ruled for a thousand years, while its rightful owner is a prisoner in his own city, it will be of interest from many points of view to review what Roman people and Rome were like before 1870 and what they are to-day.

[pg. 194]

Long ages ago, when Rome through the neglect of the Western emperors was left to the mercy of barbarous hordes, Romans turned to one figure for aid and protection and asked him to rule them; and thus in this simple manner, the best title of all to kingly right, commenced the temporal sovereignty of the Popes. And meekly stepping to the throne of Caesar, the Vicar of Christ took up the sceptre to which the emperors and kings of Europe were to bow in reverence through so many ages, from sentiments of respect for the dignity of his office and because he was the only mediator whom they recognized in their almost interminable wars.
Source: Two Romes, by James P. Conry, in The American Catholic Quarterly Review, Volume XXXVI (36), edited by James Andrew Corcoran, Patrick John Ryan, Edmond Francis Prendergast, 1911, pgs. 193-194.

… the right to her Temporal Sovereignty is an integral right of the Church as constituted by her Divine Founder. It has prevailed de facto for more than twelve hundred years, and has been possessed de jure by Divine Natural Law from the beginning of Christianity, …
Source: The Victories of Rome and the Temporal Monarchy of the Church, 5th edition, By Kenelm Digby Best, London, 1906, pg. xii.

Rome has been a government under the Popes for some twelve hundred years.
Source: Complete Works of the Most Rev. John Hughes, Archbishop of New York, 1866, Volume 2. pg. 778

[GeneBalthrop]

Berean. ….it’s  not about religions at all, it’s about World rulling powers and economics.  You will never understand Revelations without understanding that. We are now in the Fifth world ruling  powers of what Daniel prophesy to come it is the feet and toes of iron and clay.

If you don’t understand that,  “and one “IS’.  Time dates the prophesy and opens up the whole thing to understanding it in regards to the prophesy of Daniel, you in no way will ever have a right understanding of Rev 17.  

What I wrote about Rev 17 is exactly right, it set the time line and is exactly right. By understanding it you will know we are in the FIFTH  BABYLOIAN TYPE OF WORLD RULLING EMPIRE’S. The feet of Iron and clay. The next to come is the Sixth which is t h e kingdom of Jesus Christ and the Saint’s.  

Those who are looking for something else to happen will be caught by suprise when Jesus returns. Why? Because they will be looking for all these false Prophesies to happen befor he returns and be caught off guard.

Peace and love to you and yours. ………….gene

[Berean]

 

 

Gene

You don’t prove your “sayings” with the bible alone… you interpret in your own way
I don’t see any specific explanation for anything you’re saying.
God didn’t just give Daniel 2 as prophecy.
There’s Daniel 7 and 8, DANIEL 9 and 11.
In fact every chapter is important
As well as the book of Revelation of John, which must be studied in relation to the book of Daniel.

 

The” one is ” is now

I know that

This is the feet (iron and clay) of Daniel 2

But it is not the number 5 because

number 5 are fallen

“Five are fallen”(Rev.17)

When God give prophecy to John

Angel who speak to him carry him

away “in the spirit” into the wilderness…..and John saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns

 

In this vision John was carried forward to our day, the time of the judgment.

From the period of the judgment he looked back in time to when the Papal church was supported by the Papal State, the whore supported by the beast. 

In that période of judgment (after 1798)  we are when “5 are fallen”

And It’s from 1798 until now. .

The fallen heads are

BABYLON

MEDO PERSE

GRECIA

ROME IMPÉRIAL

AND PAPAL ROME

WE ARE LIVING NOW AFTER

THE BEAST WOUND IN TIME OF THE SIXTH HEAD :  LICENTIOUS

ATHEISM AND COMMUNISME (SOCIALISM)  IN WAR WITH CAPITALISM Orchestrated by the Rothschild family and compagny  and the papacy “who is  ascending out of the bottomless”

 

The HEAD NUMBER SEVEN

WILL BE  THE UNITED STATE OF AMERICA

You’ll see it with your own eyes soon in the near future

We’ll talk about this later.

 

And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

This beast is THE USA (the last before

THE EIGHTEENTH KING

WITH IS THE PAPACY AGAIN

FOR SHORT TIME (ONE PROPHETIC HOUR)

 

 

[Miia]

Gene said:

Those who are looking for something else to happen will be caught by suprise when Jesus returns. Why? Because they will be looking for all these false Prophesies to happen befor he returns and be caught off guard.

Hi gene,

We should always be ready.

When Jesus returns we either live or die by the brightness of his coming. The earth will become uninhabitable.

Thereafter, according to my understanding of scriptures those who survive will be taken to heaven.

 

[Miia]

Berean said:

When someone is bound, he cannot act freely; likewise when Satan shall be bound, he will no longer be able to tempt the nations.

Hi Berean,

From my understanding Satan was bound by the cross so he could deceive the nations no more, which is how the nations learned of God up until this day. He is like a chained dog, restricted in what he can do, though he has his minions.

Soon – if not already – he is unbound and will attempt to deceive the nations once more.

Might explain the sudden technological advances etc.

That is my view.

People say “Oh but evil still exists”. Well of course it exists.

The reason is that the earth will be empty of its inhabitants during the millennium. Because
on the return of jesus
then all the unrepentant will perish “by the breath of His mouth”, and “by the brightness of His coming” (2 Thessalonians 2: 8).
So there will be no one left on earth except Satan and demons who will no longer be able to tempt anyone.

The righteous will be safe in heaven with Jesus from God.
Martyrs to Attend Forsaken Millennium Judgment

I have heard that somewhere before.

We have a few differences, Berean but the major things we seem to agree on.

I believe there will be a false return before the true coming. Do you?

 

[Proclaimer]

If we start with Egypt as first head, and that we believe that John considered the heads at his time (the moment when he receives the visions), we have Greece as the last fallen head (the fifth)
According to this “view”
Rome is the sixth (the one is)

The seventh says Rev.17 should not last long.

Questions / problems? ??

I think that is a weakness if the text is translated correctly. But the Ottoman Empire pails in comparison to the reign of Egypt, Assyria, and Rome which reigned over a millennia each. But the Ottoman appears to be slightly longer than Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece. From this observation there appears to be two groups of empires, one’s that reigned for an extended time and the others which were measured in centuries.

How does your theory figure? The reign of the Vatican seems to be quite long.

[Proclaimer]

T8……YOU ARE CORRECT, but Daniel shows Six kingdoms not four or five, the fifth kingdom is the one we are in right now, the Sixth comes next and that is the kingdom JOHN is speaking from as the “one that is”.  And after the sixth kingdom of Jesus Christ

Jesus Christ’s kingdom is the kingdom of God. That kingdom is the stone that strikes the statue which represents the kingdoms that came out of the great sea and the one that the woman rides. The woman doesn’t ride on the Kingdom of God. God’s kingdom is not associated with a harlot. Both John and Daniel saw the same thing but Daniels was a subset of the kings that John saw.

Your view is pulled out of a hat. You do not explain why it is that. you just say it and expect people to take your word. Come on Gene. You really expect people to think that is acceptable.

[Berean]

Hi miia

 

I believe there will be a false return before the true coming. Do you?

Yes, Satan himself will attempt
to counterfeit the coming of Christ
We can believe this and it’s not surprising because as Paul says
Satan himself disguises himself as an angel of light.
Since the fall of our first parents Adam and Eve, he has been at work on our earth; he transfers his hatred of God against humans by seducing them in order to better destroy them.
We must not believe that he is bound.
Satan is not bound.
At the cross Jesus spiritually defeated the devil and the devil was defeated, but he is not yet bound.
as it says in Revelation 20
That’ll happen when Jesus comes back.

 

[GeneBalthrop]

T8….if you can see,  Daniel spoke of only  Babyloian  kingdoms that would rise up after kING NEBURCHNASSER

1………The head of Gold ………………Babyloian Empire……………………Neburchnasser

2……….The chest and arms…………..Medo-Persian Empire. …………….Daruis

3……….The belly of Brass……………. Greece Empire…………………………..Alexander the great

4……….The legs of Iron………………..Roman  Empire………………………….Julius Caesar

5……….The feet of Iron and Clay ……present ruling nations…………..a mixture of different powerful nations who do not agree nor act as one single rulling empire, but it is broken up into many different nations mixed with different seed of men who don’t agree or operate as one single empire ,  Just as Daniel said.

6………..The next  kingdom to come is the “SIXTH KINGDOM of Jesus Christ and the Saint’s..

Now T8 how much clearer can I get then that?  Now if you understand this, then you can easely see  the reason Rev 17 says, it takes wisdom to understand what it was being said,  the wisdom is in understanding John was speaking from what was to take place at the “END” of the SIXTH KINGDOM OF JESUS CHRIST AND THE SAINTS, 

7 and 8,   that’s when the Seventh and eight rise up .  It’s easy to understand,  nothing complicated about it, once you come to understand the timeline everything falls into place. 

I don’t know how much easier and clearer I can make it, like I said you people can’t see the FOREST BECAUSE OF THE TREES.  THOSE SCRIPTURES ARE  GIVING YOU AN “OVER VIEW” NOT ALL THE LITTLE DETAILS OF HOW THOSE KINGDOM COME TO BE. Just and outline of those kingdoms. 

We are in the FIFTH kingdom of Iron and Clay powerful nations mixed with different nationalities,  or seeds of men just as it is today.  Just plug in what Daniel said the Fifth kingdom of iron and clay would be like, it fits us today exactly as Daniel described it. 

Peace and love to you and yours. ………….gene

 

[GeneBalthrop]

Miia…..Yes we should be ready, but when people are feed a bounch of lies as to when Jesus returns they can be caught off guard, thinking all those thing must happen, when infact they have got what takes place at the end of the millennial  period mixed up with what takes place befor his return.

Satan is not bound up yet, that takes place when Jesus returns and then he will be placed into the bottomless pit and kept there for a thousand years and release for a short period of time and go into perdition.  Juse as it says. REV 17.

Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Berean……there is no such thing as a world rulling kingdom as “PAPAL ROME ” .

Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene

[Proclaimer]

Gene.

How about a numbered list with just headings. Then put the same list into Revelation 17:9-11. Remember, that five had already fallen at the time of the prophecy.

[Berean]

Gene
If you stick to Daniel 2 alone
you can’t get very far in the knowledge of biblical prophecy truth.
I’m sorry to tell you, but it’s the truth.
There isn’t just one chapter in the book of Daniel.
In Daniel 7
can you tell who the little horn is?
that rises after the Fourth Empire? (476AD) After the 10 horns.

Daniel 7

Horns’ S fourth beast(ROME)

7:8 And I considered the horns, and, behold, another little horn came out from among them; and three of the first horns were plucked off before that horn: and, lo, it had eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth that spake proudly.

7:11 Then I looked, because of the arrogant words which the horn spake;

7:19 Then I desired to know the truth of the fourth beast, which was different from all the rest, and exceeding terrible, and had teeth of iron, and nails of brass, and did eat, and break, and trample under foot what was left;

7:20 And upon the ten horns that were upon his head, and upon the other that came out, before which three fell, and upon that horn that had eyes, and a mouth speaking arrogantly, and a greater countenance than the rest.

7:21 And I saw this horn make war with the saints, and prevailed against them,

7:22 Until the former days came, that the saints of the most High should have the right, and the time came that the saints were in possession of the kingdom.

7:23 And he spake thus unto me: The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom which shall be upon the earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, which shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. 7:24 And the ten horns are ten kings which shall arise out of that kingdom. And another shall rise up after them, and shall be diverse from the first, and shall bring down three kings. 7:25 And he shall speak words against the most High, and shall oppress the saints of the most High, and shall hope to change times and laws: and the saints shall be given into his hand for a time and times and half a time. 7:26 And there shall come judgment, and his dominion shall be taken away from him, and he shall be destroyed and destroyed for ever.

 

 

[Berean]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

T8

In vision John was carried forward to our day, the time of the judgment.

See Rev.14
[7] Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

From the period of the judgment he looked back in time to when the Papal church was supported by the Papal State, the whore supported by the beast. The angel, speaking from our point in time, told John that the Papal State that supported the Papal Church had been and was not, having been abolished in 1798 – i.e. received a deadly wound. However it is to arise again and be called the eighth head. Then all the corrupt powers which have apostatized from God will give their support to the Papacy for a prophetic hour in her last effort to eradicate the saints. However, when her triumph looks certain her supporters will turn on her and destroy her as described in Revelation 18.

[GeneBalthrop]

T8…..What I have told you is the true timeline of all those Prophesies it was never meant to describe ever little details,  it and over view, so all the other things must fit into that time line, get it?,  how they come about is another story, I am not dealing with that, but whoever tries to fit thing in, must follow the time line given in Rev 17.  If it doesn’t it simply is not true,  everything has to fit in the time line of Rev 17, and the prophesy of  Daniel 2:32-45 , fits exactly.

I understand what you are saying, but most if not all those thing people are say dosen’t fit, so they force the text to try to make it fit, but it simply dosen’t, and because of that,  you get people comming up with thousand if not millions of false teachings.  Sometimes it pays to keep your eyes on the simple straight forward things,  to keep you from getting off track brother. What people say “must fit” into the time line or it simply misses the mark.  REV 17 IS THE KEY to that time line.  You must get that right before you can move forward. 

Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

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