Revelation

Participant

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 12 2014,17:21)

Quote

Its great that you Love the Lord Jesus with all your heart, i don't worry about you on the day of Judgement. I admire that you love the others here and want them to be saved

What? Talk about a judgmental fraud!

What right do you have to judge based on a belief in a trinity?

Hi 2b,

All I care about is the truth and to Love God with all my heart soul and mind – and my neighbor as myself.

The Trinity means Tri-Unity, its does NOT teach that the Son is the Father but it teaches that the Son has the same nature as his true Father, its truly common sense but NOT for those who deny the Father or for those good people who have been tricked and deceived by their trust.

There are so ***MANY** questions that can NOT be addressed if you DON'T believe that Jesus is
1: the one and only true Son of God
2: true God by nature FROM and OF his Fathers substance

Do you understand that the Son derives his nature and substance FROM the Father alone, as the one and only true Son of God???

Do have a problem understand that the water that flows down a mountains from its source [the snow] has the same substance [h2o] as its source the snow which is also h20.

I believe in eteranl generation, that being that the Son is the eternal generated expression of the Father ungenerated sunbstance. The Son is the radiance of the glory of God Hebrews 1:3

Do you understand how a one and only TRUE Son has the same nature as his TRUE Father?

Is Jesus a true God or a false God???

Do you belong to Jesus, is he your God???

The Father is ungenerated, uncaused, unbegotten YET he does express cause and begetts his Glory. Hebrews 1:3 Identifies the Son as the radiance of the Father Glory.

The Father can NOT be
1: eternally Father
2: eternally Almighty

Without a eternal expression of his Fatherhood and Almighty power.

The Father holds the highest place above the Son, just as Adam holds a higher place than Eve, the head of every Women is Man. Women came from Man is OF Man, just as *the* one and only comes from the Father and is OF the Father. Women and Men are equal in nature they are fully human but Eve came from the rib of man. No one can call themself *THE* Son of God just as you don't hear people calling themself THE Father, its a sin to try and take the unique identy of the Father or the Son.

Sorry I dont know much about your background do you believe that Jesus pre-existed and do you believe he is THE Son of God?

Take care.

Life in the Son and in his name
Daniel.

February 13, 2014 at 12:10 am#371102

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 12 2014,17:40)

Quote (4Thomas @ Feb. 12 2014,15:16)

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 12 2014,11:58)

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 12 2014,11:06)

So if the Word is God and is made flesh, Jesus is not an individual person as we are, but an extension of God right?

T8.

Jesus is the Word Of God in the flesh.
Which He was spirit, before He came down to earth.
He is the IMAGE OF GOD; but also God's own Word.
The Word of God in the form of a being.
A living spiritual being shaped into God's own image.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup,

Its great that you Love the Lord Jesus with all your heart, i don't worry about you on the day of Judgement. I admire that you love the others here and want them to be saved, we have to trust in Gods love and them being open to the truth.

I believe that Jesus is

1: the one and only true Son of God = the Word of God, the Lord of Lords, Jehovah [the Son] seen in the old testament, the radiance of the Father, the expressed image. God from God, light from light, true God from true God, begotten NOT made.

AND

2: the Son of man = the last adam, the messiah (the man Jesus), the Lamb.

Jesus has two natures, you need to understand both to be saved. He is the the eternal word, the only true Son of God which took the man of a man to save us from our Sins.

The key is also understand that NOONE has ever seen the Father at anytime.

John 1:18
No one has ever seen God; the only-begotten God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.

Now it is IMPOSSIBLE FOR *him* to be *A* god when he is called ***THE*** only begotten God.

Why, *easy*
1: because he is the ***ONLY God [begotten]
2: because he is called ****THE**** only begotten God.

If you are the ONLY one then you cant be called *A* as you are THE only one.

John 1:18

New International Version
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

When scripture says the is whom himself is God, its doesnt mean he is the Father but instead it means he is God by nature because he IS OF and FROM the Fathers substance.

New Living Translation
No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father's heart. He has revealed God to us.

English Standard Version
No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.

The Key to understand what Jesus is, is to understand that he is the one and only true Son of God, this is why he was killed.

John 5:18
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

John chapter 5 shows that Jesus was Jehovah (the Son) in the Old Testament that Moses seen in Number 12:8 when he explicitly said that Moses seen the form of Jehovah, not in a vision or dream but for real.

Jesus said for the sake of our salvation that no-one has ever seen God at any time YET many people have Seen Jehovah the Almighty *MANY* times.
Only once they couldn't see his face AND that was only when Moses requested to see ALL his glory/goodness

Thomas in front of all the other disciples calls Jesus “HIS Lord and HIS God, when he said my Lord and My God.

Then scripture says these things are written so you will believe THAT Jesus is **THE** Son of God.

Blessings in Jesus name
Daniel

Hi 4thomas.

1.God gave his only begotten son.
He did not gave Himself.God did not die on the cross,but
his Son did.

2.Jesus is not God the father nor is he A god.

3.The living Word of God was brought forth,and given a
form;in the image of God himself . He was just called by
what He is.
THE WORD OF GOD. **THIS WAS JUST BEFORE
CREATION**BEGAN.(John said:and the Word was with
God). When John said: the Word was God; this was before
God spoke.
**BEFORE CREATION**.
4. Then all things were created through Him.(THE WORD).

5.The Word(the being) was made flesh,his name is called
JESUS.

6. Jesus was transformed back into spirit at the
resurrection,and is back with
God in heaven,waiting for his next assignment. And that is
to destroy Babylon,and to collect His saints,and to set up
his kingdom on earth.

7.He will not come by the name *JESUS*.
But by the name of; The Word of God.

8. Jesus is God: but he is God's own word.
Gods Word,can never be above God.
God always has control of His Word.
Because of that; He calls God; His God.
He is always in subjection to God;His God.

We Worship one God and His Word in Him.
We can worship God's Word also,for he is part of God.
Beside me there is no saviour.This is true.
God and his own Word is our one and only saviour.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup,
A lot of what you say is great but do you believe in the Holy Spirit [The breath of God]
and do you believe that Jesus raised from the dead in his true Body?

Luke 24:39
New American Standard Bible
“See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”

Luke 24:39
King James Bible
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Luke 24:39
New International Version
Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

If you love The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit with all your heart soul and mind all that's really matters.

Take care and blessings in the name of Jesus
Daniel

February 13, 2014 at 1:16 am#371106

Participant

Thomas,

Quote

There are so ***MANY** questions that can NOT be addressed if you DON'T believe that Jesus is
1: the one and only true Son of God
2: true God by nature FROM and OF his Fathers substance

Do you understand that the Son derives his nature and substance FROM the Father alone, as the one and only true Son of God???

Do have a problem understand that the water that flows down a mountains from its source [the snow] has the same substance [h2o] as its source the snow which is also h20.

I believe in eteranl generation, that being that the Son is the eternal generated expression of the Father ungenerated sunbstance. The Son is the radiance of the glory of God Hebrews 1:3

The Father is ungenerated, uncaused, unbegotten YET he does express cause and begetts his Glory. Hebrews 1:3 Identifies the Son as the radiance of the Father Glory.

The Father can NOT be
1: eternally Father
2: eternally Almighty

Without a eternal expression of his Fatherhood and Almighty power

Sorry, what is this gibberish? I lost what you were saying, is that out of a textbook? Heard it all before, even on this forum, exactly the same, just a different font color layout and avatar!

Quote

Do you belong to Jesus, is he your God???

Jesus' God, our God, is the Father God.

Have you read this verse?

Jesus said to Mary, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

There is one God.

“For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”

I believe what is in the Bible.

Quote

Sorry I dont know much about your background do you believe that Jesus pre-existed and do you believe he is THE Son of God?

I believe that Jesus pre-existed as the eternal spirit but was also man in the flesh. And of course I believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

Can you please explain why you feel non-trinitarians are unsaved? Because I would not say that a person is saved due to belief in trinity or non-trinity. When Jesus returns he judges on what a person has done, and not only in outer appearances either.

February 13, 2014 at 5:06 am#371119

Participant

Hi 2besee,

So you believe that Jesus is *THE* Son of God but you dont think he is God by nature/substance FROM and OF the Fathers nature/substance.

So the Father isn't THE true Father of the one and only true Son Jesus?

You cant be saved with the wrong Jesus.

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

Its very INTERESTING when you look in the old testament when Jehovah says “I AM HE”

Do you think it was Jehovah the Father that was seen in the Old testament, or Jehovah the Son?

Jesus said EXPLICITLY for the sake of our salvation that no one has ever seen the Father at any time.

John 5:34
34Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved.

To answer your question regarding how we are judged, I believe we are Judged by agape [Love].

Basically it doesn't matter how much faith you have or what you do if its not done in Love.

Love is the key even if you give everything to the poor and your body to be burned as a martyr. wITHOUT LOVE NOTHING MATTERS

The question is where does Jesus fit into the commandment of love?

Do you love him only as your neighbor or as God [the Son]

Life in the Son and his name
Daniel

February 13, 2014 at 11:29 am#371121

Participant

Hi 4Thomas.

Quote

A lot of what you say is great but do you believe in the Holy Spirit [The breath of God]
and do you believe that Jesus raised from the dead in his true Body?

THE *HS* IS THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, **the Spirit of truth**, is come, he will guide you into all truth: ***for he shall not speak of himself***; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and ***he will shew you things to come***.

John 16:14 ***He shall glorify me***: ***for he shall receive of mine***, and shall shew it unto you.
IF WE HAVE THE TRUTH WE WILL GLORIFY JESUS.
IF DONT HAVE THE TRUTH,WE WILL GLORIFY SOME OTHER JESUS.

Quote

Luke 24:39
New American Standard Bible
“See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”

JESUS COULD NOT SHOW THEM AS HE IS;BECAUSE THEY CAN NOT SEE A SPIRIT. HE HAD TO PROOF TO THEM THAT HE REALLY IS THE LORD CRUCIFIED.HE HAD TO SHOW THEM HIS WOUNDS;JUST TO PROOF THAT IT IS NOT A DREAM OR VISION. BUT REAL LIVE.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him;
***for we shall see him as he is***.
NO ONE HAS SEEN JESUS AS HE *REALLY* IS.
REV.19. WILL GIVE YOU AN IDEA,WHAT HE REALLY IS.

Quote

Luke 24:39
King James Bible
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

BELIEVE IN JESUS OWN WORDS:
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
***and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit***.
JESUS WAS BORN *AGAIN* OF THE SPIRIT(resurrected).
AND HE IS SPIRIT. FLESH AND BLOOD AND BONE, CAN NOT
ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.ANGELS ARE MADE OF SPIRIT. JESUS CAN NOT BE MADE OF LESS THAN SPIRIT.HE IS THE CREATOR BY THE POWER OF GOD. ALL THINGS ARE MADE FOR HIM. HE IS THE WORD OF GOD HIMSELF.
GOD'S OWN LIVING WORD.GOD AND HIS WORD IS ONE GOD.

Quote

YES, HE HAD TO PROOF TO THEM. THEY MUST SEE AND TOUCH.
Luke 24:39
New International Version
Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

HE INDEED WAS THERE WITH THEM IN THE FLESH.HE SPEAKS THE TRUTH.AT THAT TIME HE WAS TRULY FLESH.
FOR A WINESS THAT HE INDEED IS HE.
ALL RESURRECTED SAINTS WILL HAVE A BODY AS THE ANGELS. (spirit body).
Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, ***but are as the angels of God in heaven***.

Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; ***but are as the angels which are in heaven***.

Quote

If you love The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit with all your heart soul and mind all that's really matters.

1. ALL POWER AND WISDOM COMES FROM GOD.
2.HE EXECUTES HIS WILL BY HIS WORD. ALL
DONE/PERFORMED BY HIS WORD;
A LIVING WORD;WITH A FORM. IN GOD'S OWN
IMAGE.
3. THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH THAT IS *IN*
THE WORD.
4.THE WORD IS *IN GOD*; THE HOLY SPIRIT IS *IN THE
WORD*.THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH IS IN THE WORD,WHICH
COMES OUT FROM GOD.

wakeup.

February 13, 2014 at 10:42 pm#371151

Participant

Quote (4Thomas @ Feb. 13 2014,17:06)

Hi 2besee,

So you believe that Jesus is *THE* Son of God but you dont think he is God by nature/substance FROM and OF the Fathers nature/substance.

So the Father isn't THE true Father of the one and only true Son Jesus?

You cant be saved with the wrong Jesus.

Scripture says:

Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ?
This is the antichrist,
he who denies the Father and the Son.
No one who denies the Son has the Father.
Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.
Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you.
If what you heard from the beginning abides in you,
then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father.
And this is the promise that he made to use—eternal life.

I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you.
But the anointing that you received from him abides in you,
and you have no need that anyone should teach you.
But as his anointing teaches you about everything,
and is true,
and is no lie—just as it has taught you,
abide in him.

So what are you talking about?

Quote

Do you think it was Jehovah the Father that was seen in the Old testament, or Jehovah the Son?

YHWH the Father was in the Old Testament.
Jesus' name is Jesus.

Here is also YHWH and Jesus:

(Daniel 7)
“As I looked,
thrones were placed,
and the Ancient of Days took his seat;
his clothing was white as snow,
and the hair of his head like pure wool;
his throne was fiery flames;
its wheels were burning fire.
A stream of fire issued and came out from before him;
a thousand thousands served him,
and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him;
the court sat in judgment,
and the books were opened.

“I looked then because of the sound of the great words that the horn was speaking. And as I looked, the beast was killed, and its body destroyed and given over to be burned with fire. As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.

“I saw in the night visions,
and behold,
with the clouds of heaven
there came one like a son of man,
and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him.
And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
that all peoples,
nations,
and languages should serve him;
his dominion is an everlasting dominion,
which shall not pass away,
and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.

Quote

Jesus said EXPLICITLY for the sake of our salvation that no one has ever seen the Father at any time.

Seen is to know properly. Jesus came to reveal the Father. If you have seen Him, you have seen the Father.

Quote

To answer your question regarding how we are judged, I believe we are Judged by agape [Love].

Basically it doesn't matter how much faith you have or what you do if its not done in Love.

Love is the key even if you give everything to the poor and your body to be burned as a martyr. wITHOUT LOVE NOTHING MATTERS

The question is where does Jesus fit into the commandment of love?

Do you love him only as your neighbor or as God [the Son]

Do you believe in eternal hell, as in eternal conscious hell?

February 13, 2014 at 11:36 pm#371155

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 13 2014,21:29)

Hi 4Thomas.

Quote

A lot of what you say is great but do you believe in the Holy Spirit [The breath of God]
and do you believe that Jesus raised from the dead in his true Body?

THE *HS* IS THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH.

Quote

Luke 24:39
New American Standard Bible
“See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”

Quote

Luke 24:39
King James Bible
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Quote

Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; ***but are as the angels which are in heaven***.

Quote

If you love The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit with all your heart soul and mind all that's really matters.

wakeup.

Amen Wakeup, I'm just on a lunch break but from what I have read I agree. The Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth and Jesus the Word does contain the spirit of truth.
The Word of God contains the breath of God. it is impossible to speak or sing without using breath.

I wont be able to spend much time replying to you sorry as I would like to spend the time on those who think Jesus is an angel or Michael the arch angel.

I would ask you to look into your beliefs that Jesus doesn't have a real body, what happens to it if he no longer has one. His spirit wasn't resurrected as his spirit is FROM and OF the Father and could not be killed. Again this is just a small matter compare to WHAT Jesus is.

Blessings to you and Love in Christ Jesus
Daniel.

February 13, 2014 at 11:57 pm#371159

Participant

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 14 2014,08:42)

Quote (4Thomas @ Feb. 13 2014,17:06)

Hi 2besee,

So you believe that Jesus is *THE* Son of God but you dont think he is God by nature/substance FROM and OF the Fathers nature/substance.

So the Father isn't THE true Father of the one and only true Son Jesus?

You cant be saved with the wrong Jesus.

Scripture says:

So what are you talking about?

Quote

Do you think it was Jehovah the Father that was seen in the Old testament, or Jehovah the Son?

YHWH the Father was in the Old Testament.
Jesus' name is Jesus.

Here is also YHWH and Jesus:

Quote

Jesus said EXPLICITLY for the sake of our salvation that no one has ever seen the Father at any time.

Seen is to know properly. Jesus came to reveal the Father. If you have seen Him, you have seen the Father.

Quote

To answer your question regarding how we are judged, I believe we are Judged by agape [Love].

Basically it doesn't matter how much faith you have or what you do if its not done in Love.

Love is the key even if you give everything to the poor and your body to be burned as a martyr. wITHOUT LOVE NOTHING MATTERS

The question is where does Jesus fit into the commandment of love?

Do you love him only as your neighbor or as God [the Son]

Do you believe in eternal hell, as in eternal conscious hell?

Hi 2be,

I do believe in the lake of fire and eternal punishment.
I don't want to get into it as its just one of many side issues.

I started a doc on it on a basic website I started a while back after being inspired by the stuff I seen T8 doing on this.

Do you want me to provide you with the link and also the writing from the earliest Church regarding this?

OK. Let get back to whats important and that is WHAT is Jesus.

1: he become the Son of man = he became a man
2: he is THE one and ONLY true Son of God.

It VERY clear that Satan is not FROM and OF the fathers substance would you agree?

You believe that Jesus is the Son of God but you dont think he is God by substance.

What came in the FLESH

1 John 4
1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

WHAT came in the flesh, was it Michael or the one and only true Son by Nature/substance.

Its not good believing the wrong Jesus came in the flesh, the arch angels or chief angels Gabriel, michael and the fallen angel Lucifier didn't come in the flesh did they.

Please let me know what foundation you are built on.

WHAT is Jesus before the only-begotten God took flesh

Life and love in the Son and in his name
Daniel

February 14, 2014 at 12:35 am#371162

Participant

Quote

I do believe in the lake of fire and eternal punishment.
I don't want to get into it as its just one of many side issues.

I started a doc on it on a basic website I started a while back after being inspired by the stuff I seen T8 doing on this.

Do you want me to provide you with the link and also the writing from the earliest Church regarding this?

Well then if you do believe in eternal conscious torment, then I believe you have been TAUGHT a lie about God. How can you then say that you know God, and others do NOT know God?

God is love.

The wages of sin is death, the free gift from God is eternal life, in Christ Jesus.

So, the way I see it, don't tell me about Love, when you don't know about loving your neighbor. Appearances can be deceiving. Jesus gave His life for others. We should be the same. THAT is Love.

You would save your own life, but allow in your mind so many people to go to eternal torment, whilst you happy in Heaven?

Again, God is love. God forgives. God does not hold his anger forever.

I do not need the “Early Church Fathers” to teach me. Neither should you.

How do you reconcile a loving and forgiving God who IS love, with a God who allows people to suffer for an eternity?

Quote

You believe that Jesus is the Son of God but you dont think he is God by substance.

What came in the FLESH

1 John 4
1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

WHAT came in the flesh, was it Michael or the one and only true Son by Nature/substance.

Its not good believing the wrong Jesus came in the flesh, the arch angels or chief angels Gabriel, michael and the fallen angel Lucifier didn't come in the flesh did they.

I believe that Jesus was the Holy Spirit in the flesh.

I do not believe that you or I or anyone has the right to judge another as being lost and needing saving when they have the Son. SIN should be judged.

And convince some,
who doubt;
save some,
by snatching them out of the fire;
on some have mercy with fear,
hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

February 15, 2014 at 9:51 am#371245

Participant

Daniel, I went to church today (first time in ages), the Seventh Day Adventists, the place I love to go, where God drew me years ago. I don't agree with everything, but I do agree with one thing mainly – God's spirit is there, I feel God there, and I always learn something. Well, today, this sabbath I learned that I did not love Jesus as I should, I was lost, I could no longer pray properly, my heart had hardened, and although I had been taken out of Egypt like ancient Israel, I lost sight, I disbelieved.
A trip that could have taken ancient Israel 11 days to the promised land took them 40 years.
Why? Because of their disbelief, their hardened hearts and their pride, etc.

So tonight I had a good talk with the Lord, an honest talk. And that felt so good.

So, in ways you are right. Maybe we, Christians, THINK we know Jesus, when deep down we are lost.

As for you and your belief in eternal conscious torment, you know that goes right against God's nature, and you say you have written a (blog?) regarding it, well I have humbled myself lost my pride and admitted my faults, so maybe you could do the same. (Maybe check some Adventist sites out).

Anyway, you will have to excuse my bad behavior, I have been on this particular forum for quite some years, and over the time have met trinitarians or semi trinies………………but you are okay, you seem to have a more pleasant side, and you made me think.

You have done good. Thanks. :o)

Take care Daniel.

*late edit: removed a line.

February 15, 2014 at 10:35 am#371246

Proclaimer

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 12 2014,12:58)

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 12 2014,11:06)

So if the Word is God and is made flesh, Jesus is not an individual person as we are, but an extension of God right?

T8.

wakeup.

A different person to the Father?

February 15, 2014 at 10:46 am#371247

Proclaimer

Participant

@ 4Thomas

If Jesus came from God then he would likely have the nature of God. It is written that although he existed in the form of God, he emptied himself, and came in the flesh.

This was never meant to teach that Jesus is God, but that God was his Father and he came from him, thus possessing the only nature that was in existence before creation.

People get confused over the nature of God and being God. Adam was in nature man. Eve was in nature man (mankind). But Eve is not Adam. Similarly, Jesus may possess the nature of God, but he is not God. He is the glory of God and the son of God.

Think about the word “OF”. It means something that the Trinity Doctrine turns a blind eye to.

If you are teaching the Trinity, then your doctrine leads you to this view.

The Son of God.
The Spirit of God.
…So far we agree, but not the next step.
The Father of God.

I believe as we should, that the Father is God.

The Trinity would have us believe that there is one God, the Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
Thus the Father of God, the Son of God, the Spirit of God.
I strongly disagree with that doctrine.

February 15, 2014 at 6:33 pm#371263

Participant

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 15 2014,20:35)

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 12 2014,12:58)

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 12 2014,11:06)

So if the Word is God and is made flesh, Jesus is not an individual person as we are, but an extension of God right?

T8.

wakeup.

A different person to the Father?

T8.

Yes two beings: and the *Word was with God*.
The cecond being is God's own Word with a form/shape.

1. LONG BEFORE CREATION.
*The word was God*. In God.God not spoken anything.Yet.

2.JUST BEFORE CREATION:
God spoke His Word,and gave him a form.
*And the Word was with God*.

3.AT CREATION:
God created all things through Him;His image.

4. The same LIVING WORD,became flesh.

wakeup.

February 15, 2014 at 6:51 pm#371269

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 15 2014,23:33)

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 15 2014,20:35)

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 12 2014,12:58)

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 12 2014,11:06)

So if the Word is God and is made flesh, Jesus is not an individual person as we are, but an extension of God right?

T8.

wakeup.

A different person to the Father?

T8.

Yes two beings: and the *Word was with God*.
The cecond being is God's own Word with a form/shape.

1. LONG BEFORE CREATION.
*The word was God*. In God.God not spoken anything.Yet.

2.JUST BEFORE CREATION:
God spoke His Word,and gave him a form.
*And the Word was with God*.

3.AT CREATION:
God created all things through Him;His image.

4. The same LIVING WORD,became flesh.

wakeup.

SCRIPTURES DO NOT SAY THAT

February 16, 2014 at 2:46 am#371285

Participant

T8 is correct.

The Word is *OF* GOD.
Another being *OF* God.
The image *OF* God.
God's Word belongs to God HIMSELF.
He was in God,untill God spoke out His Word.

Our *SUBSTANCE*,which is THE WORD OF GOD,
BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN FEEDING ON THE WORD,WHICH IS JESUS.
ALSO WILL BE GIVEN A FORM/SHAPE.
Creatures with a spirit body,LIKE THE SON OF GOD.

If we believe this,we must also believe that,
THE WORD OF GOD IS A LIVING BEING WITH A FORM;
THE IMAGE OF GOD.
WE TRUE CHRISTIANS WILL BE IN JESUS,AND JESUS IN GOD.

THE HS,IS ALSO *OF* GOD.

wakeup.

February 17, 2014 at 12:21 am#371330

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Adventism-en.png

Participant

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 15 2014,19:51)

So tonight I had a good talk with the Lord, an honest talk. And that felt so good.

So, in ways you are right. Maybe we, Christians, THINK we know Jesus, when deep down we are lost.

Anyway, you will have to excuse my bad behavior, I have been on this particular forum for quite some years, and over the time have met trinitarians or semi trinies, who did damage, not good….. belittling Gods children, falsely believing that their superiority and knowledge, falsely so called, triumphed. But you are okay, you are honestly the first trinitarian on this forum who, although somewhat like them, in some ways, seems to have a more pleasant side, and you made me think.

You have done good. Thanks. :o)

Take care Daniel.

Praise God for you 2besee,
What you have said about loving Jesus is true. This is all I want is for everyone to love Jesus how he should be loved. there is no fear or judgement in loving THE Son, he is the radiance of the Father (hebrews 1:3) he is THE *only* begotten God John 1:18

To love the *Lord* your God with all your heart soul and mind is the first commandment. And to love your neighbor as yourself in the second.

Where we live now is an absolute miracle, after praying God blessed my family with large section 80,000m2, I divided the section into two 40,000m2 lots and sold one of the sections. I prayed for God to bring me a neighbor who i could share my faith with.

What he gave me was a wonderful family who were Seventh Day Adventists and a with him being a pastor also. I admire the Seventh Day Adventists that have changed there minds and no longer believe that Jesus is Michael the arch angel but instead God [THE Son]. He being a pastor and me loving to test my faith against anything reasonable – we spent many nights opening the scriptures.

If you truly Love Jesus with all your heart soul and mind and truly Love your neighbor as self.

From what my friend, a SDA pastor said is that they believe in Hell for Satan and the demons but not for people.

The Jehovah Witnesses, Seventh-day Adventist and Christadelphians were all formed from the Adventism movement that no longer exists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventism

From my research i truly believe the Seventh-day Adventist are safe [those who truly Love Jesus as THE only true Son, God by nature]. I think the Christadelphians are greatly deceived [sadly] and believe that Jehovah Witnesses are mostly loving people who are trusting an organisation that is trying to put itself in the place of Jesus THE Son of God. Any organisation that tries to control and *LIMIT* the Love that you are allowed to have for Jesus THE Son of God is very dangerous.

I haven't spent much time on the hell subject on my website, its not a forum but here is a link for you to consider. Forgive my direct questions its only done to make you and anyone else think.

http://www.4unity.net/hell/

Jesus does Love us but its clear that there is punishment

Luke 8:28
When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at his feet, shouting at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don’t torture me!”

Matthew 8:29
“What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”

Hebrews 10:29 – 31
How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

The Seventh-day Adventists are good people – better than most Christian churches to be honest, I do think they are still under the law not allowed to eat meat or drink alcohol. Jesus did turn the water into Wine and I don't buy the fermented grape juice argument.

You have Life in the Son praise God for you being honest and open to accept him as your true Lord and Savior. You can trust Jesus, He will not forsake you. Keep strong in your love for him and don't let anyone separate you from his Love.

Daniel.

February 17, 2014 at 12:28 am#371331

Participant

Hi T8,
I just started to read your reply but my lunch break is over, I will reply tomorrow.

Quickly here is what I believe.

That the Trinity confirms that the Father is the Source of All but he is eternally Father.

The Father is unbegotten, ungenerated, uncaused, unoriginated, he is the source of the whole divinity. Beyond understanding except through his Son.

The Son is begotten, light from light, true God from true God, begotton not made, the expressed substance and radiance of the Fathers begotten glory [the Fathers begotten Word/substance whom through he made the entire universe and heavens and whom he saved the entire World], the one and only true Son by explicit substance and nature.

It is impossible to divide the Substance of the unbegotten Father from the substance of the begotten Son (God). the Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father. When you see the Son you see the Father. The Son is *the* way the Truth and the Life and noone can gain access to the Father by any other means or ways or beliefts if he has not the Son, he has not the Father.

The Holy Spirit is the unity [Love and Life] of the unbegotton God/ the ultimate Source and the begotton God his true Son.

Just as Eve comes from the substance of Adam, Women being the image of man and taken from man, so also the begotton is the image of the unbegotten the source of unapprocable Light.

Do you Love Jesus with all your heart soul and mind?
Daniel

February 17, 2014 at 9:28 am#371351

Participant

Thanks Daniel. I'll write more when I can.

February 17, 2014 at 10:35 pm#371362

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Adventism-en.png

Participant

Quote (4Thomas @ Feb. 17 2014,10:21)

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 15 2014,19:51)

So tonight I had a good talk with the Lord, an honest talk. And that felt so good.

So, in ways you are right. Maybe we, Christians, THINK we know Jesus, when deep down we are lost.

You have done good. Thanks. :o)

Take care Daniel.

To love the *Lord* your God with all your heart soul and mind is the first commandment. And to love your neighbor as yourself in the second.

If you truly Love Jesus with all your heart soul and mind and truly Love your neighbor as self.

From what my friend, a SDA pastor said is that they believe in Hell for Satan and the demons but not for people.

The Jehovah Witnesses, Seventh-day Adventist and Christadelphians were all formed from the Adventism movement that no longer exists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventism

I haven't spent much time on the hell subject on my website, its not a forum but here is a link for you to consider. Forgive my direct questions its only done to make you and anyone else think.

http://www.4unity.net/hell/

Jesus does Love us but its clear that there is punishment

Luke 8:28
When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at his feet, shouting at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don’t torture me!”

Matthew 8:29
“What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”

Daniel.

4Thomas.

Please answer.

If the sda is that good;
1.Then why do the preach that allah is also God?
2.Why do some pray in mosques?
3.Why do they teach that the mark of the beast
is sunday worship? When NON christians also can not buy
or sell?
4.Why have they changed doctrines?
Micha'el is now not Jesus anymore.
5. Babylon is the catholic church,which contradicts
revelation?(18:4).
For Jesus is not coming just to destroy
the vatican, catholics, and sunday worshippers: but the
world system of things.
Babylon is the world.

The angel said: come out of her my people.
Is he only speaking to christian catholics and all sunday worshippers?, OR TO THE WHOLE WORLD?
For babylon is the world system of things.
The angel is speaking to all people of the world.
To come to the city of God which is holy jerusalem.(spiritually).

wakeup.

February 18, 2014 at 12:13 am#371376