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WHERE IN THE WORD DOES IT REFER TO,OR PEOPLE GET THAT THERE IS A SECRET RAPTURE THAT IS TO TAKE PLACE BEFORE THE GRAND TRIBULATION.
Quote (SERVANT OF THE MOST HIGH @ Feb. 28 2009,02:02) WHERE IN THE WORD DOES IT REFER TO,OR PEOPLE GET THAT THERE IS A SECRET RAPTURE THAT IS TO TAKE PLACE BEFORE THE GRAND TRIBULATION.
Hi Servant of the Most High:I just want to acknowledge your post and to say welcome to the forum. I want to wait to see if someone who believes in a secret rapture will answer your question. I do not.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (SERVANT OF THE MOST HIGH @ Feb. 28 2009,02:02) WHERE IN THE WORD DOES IT REFER TO,OR PEOPLE GET THAT THERE IS A SECRET RAPTURE THAT IS TO TAKE PLACE BEFORE THE GRAND TRIBULATION.
Don't shout! Others will hear about this secret rapture and get jealous.Stuart
Quote (SERVANT OF THE MOST HIGH @ Feb. 28 2009,02:02) WHERE IN THE WORD DOES IT REFER TO,OR PEOPLE GET THAT THERE IS A SECRET RAPTURE THAT IS TO TAKE PLACE BEFORE THE GRAND TRIBULATION.
Hi Servant of the most High.
The “rapture”, not a biblical term, but is referred to in scripture as being “snatched away”. It is not a 'secret', it is written about in 2Thes.4:13-18…
…13 Now we do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who are reposing, lest you may sorrow according as the rest, also, who have no expectation.
14 For, if we are believing that Jesus died and rose, thus also, those who are put to repose, will God, through Jesus, lead forth together with Him.
15 For this we are saying to you by the word of the Lord, that we, the living, who are surviving to the presence of the Lord, should by no means outstrip those who are put to repose,
16 for the Lord Himself will be descending from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the Chief Messenger, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ shall be rising first,
17 Thereupon we, the living who are surviving, shall at the same time be snatched away together with them in clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And thus shall we always be together with the Lord.
18 So that, console one another with these words.See also 1Cor.15:23, that describes the order of ressurection …23 Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence;
Blessings, Jerry.
Servant
The rapture, as it is preached by most ministers, is a false doctrine; likewise the fear of Antichrist and his seven years of tribulation, is a false doctrine.
Georg
Quote (Cindy @ Mar. 01 2009,03:00) Servant The rapture, as it is preached by most ministers, is a false doctrine; likewise the fear of Antichrist and his seven years of tribulation, is a false doctrine.
Georg
Hi Cindy.
So what about 2Thes.4:13-18?Blessings.
chosenone
1 Thes. 4:13-18 speaks of the first resurrection, not the rapture.
It is this verse that confuses people.1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
If those that are alive at Christs return were to be changed instantly, 1 Cor. 15:51,52, why would Paul say, “and remain”? They remain alive until their death, at which time their change will come instantly. They will have to spent no time in a grave waiting. Meeting Christ in the air simply means, the spirit world, and clouds hide things.
Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Jesus tried to explain to Nicodemus what a spirit was, John 3:4-8.
Georg
Hi Georg,
You assume the meaning of REMAIN?If it was just written ALIVE it could include Abraham, David, Isaac, Jacob, Elijah….
God is very careful with words so we should be too.
Nick
I assume nothing, I let scripture teach me, you should do the same.
(“If it was just written ALIVE it could include Abraham, David, Isaac, Jacob, Elijah….”)
No it couldn't, not unless you explain what you mean.
(“God is very careful with words so we should be too.”)
You give good advise.
Georg
Georg,
Matthew 22:32
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.Mark 12:25-27
25For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.26And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
27He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
Luke 20:36-38
36Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
37Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
38For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.
Nick
Mat. 22:32; of course he is, they are not dead, they are asleep.
Mark 12:25; is speaking of the first resurrection, the saints-spirit beings, they will not marry again.
Luke 20:36; death has no more power over them; referring to Satan who will be loosed after the 1000 years are up, and goes around deceiving the nations.
Georg
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 22 2009,17:48) Georg,
They are alive to God.
Abraham rejoiced to see the time of Jesus.
NickI am happy to see you understand that.
Every one is alive to God, asleep, until after the second death.Georg
Quote (Cindy @ Mar. 23 2009,01:11) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 22 2009,17:48) Georg,
They are alive to God.
Abraham rejoiced to see the time of Jesus.
NickI am happy to see you understand that.
Every one is alive to God, asleep, until after the second death.Georg
Greetings Georg…….Let us suppose the dead in christ consists of all the apostles, Abraham,Elisha,Moses,King david and any other person described as a deciple and had lived a rightous existance in both the OT and NT..up to our time…This group could conceivably be a portion of the 144,000 who will be summoned with a shout and rise from the dead or from their sleep along with those who are still living and are in Christs Body eg.The church( the ecclesiastes aka the called out ones)…The sum total of the dead in christ as well as the living(who will be changed in the twinkling of an eye)will be the 144000 spoken of in Rev:…I can understand how the imagination of man can create a fable such as the rapture…It obvious that once again scripture has been mis understood…Once the 144000 assume their positions of leadership in the kingdom/Government of God the harvest as well as the education of those who were blessed to survive the trials of the tribulation period will educated in the ways of God and his statutes…This will constitute a period of judgement that will last a 1000 years…justice will prevail and the 144000 will be those appointed by God to rule as kings and princes over their assigned juristictions…IMOHi theodorej
There is only one group of 144000, Rev. 7 and 14 is the same group. As you read in chapter 7, they are all Israelites.
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Chapter 14 reveals something very unique.
Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
These 144000 are the only ones that have received the Fathers name.
Question, when does a child receive a mans name who is not his biological father? when he is adopted. They are the ones that will sit with Christ on his throne.
Then you have this great multitude.Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
These are the rest of the saints, from all nations, the result of having heard the gospel.
Notice, they stand before the throne, they are the priests.Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Georg
Quote (theodorej @ Mar. 23 2009,02:56) Quote (Cindy @ Mar. 23 2009,01:11) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 22 2009,17:48) Georg,
They are alive to God.
Abraham rejoiced to see the time of Jesus.
NickI am happy to see you understand that.
Every one is alive to God, asleep, until after the second death.Georg
Greetings Georg…….Let us suppose the dead in christ consists of all the apostles, Abraham,Elisha,Moses,King david and any other person described as a deciple and had lived a rightous existance in both the OT and NT..up to our time…This group could conceivably be a portion of the 144,000 who will be summoned with a shout and rise from the dead or from their sleep along with those who are still living and are in Christs Body eg.The church( the ecclesiastes aka the called out ones)…The sum total of the dead in christ as well as the living(who will be changed in the twinkling of an eye)will be the 144000 spoken of in Rev:…I can understand how the imagination of man can create a fable such as the rapture…It obvious that once again scripture has been mis understood…Once the 144000 assume their positions of leadership in the kingdom/Government of God the harvest as well as the education of those who were blessed to survive the trials of the tribulation period will educated in the ways of God and his statutes…This will constitute a period of judgement that will last a 1000 years…justice will prevail and the 144000 will be those appointed by God to rule as kings and princes over their assigned juristictions…IMO
Hi TJ,
This myth about education in the millenium seems to come from the WWOGQuote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2009,12:37) Hi georg,
The time to learn is now.
Jesus has greater matters to deal with like restoring the earth.
NickIf only you would listen to yourself, and follow your own advice.
Jesus will know what to do with this earth once he takes over the reign.Georg
Cindy;
In Revelation, the term Jew applies to the believers, whether Gentile or Jew according to the flesh. Jesus calls those who have rejected him to be in the synagogue of Satan. He wasn't kidding when he called the Jews who did not believe children of the devil in John. Revelation 2 and 3 is a snapshot of the judgment that occurs in the church when Christ returns as a thief in the night and one is taken and one is left. All of these churches are in Asia indicating that all the parables of Christ do indeed refer to Christ revealing himself to his church during a time of negligence immediately before the tribulation begins. Those who are ready are like the two in the field where one is taken and the other remains. Jesus said in the same hour if you see the AntiChrist, head for the hills, your home is now a liability. Do not return to your houses because the AntiChrist will be taking inventory of who remains. Jesus taught us to pray to be worthy to escape the terrible tribulation that is coming upon the earth and to stand before the Son of Man. So Christ gives the parables of the coming rapture and judgment and then a preview is seen based upon Revelation 2 and 3. Jesus says to all the churches, “I know thy works.” He that hath an ear to hear let him hear what the spirit says to the churches.
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