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Quote (bodhitharta @ June 20 2010,02:03) Quote (theodorej @ June 20 2010,00:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 09 2010,13:03) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 09 2010,07:29) Observation:
5) Bible whether corrupted or not, cannot validate the Quran. witch means that the Quran needs to validate itself.
The bible does validate the Quran and The Quran validates the Bible.Think about it, if we were in front of a Jew and the Jew said Christ is a fairy tale there was no one named Jesus
well if it is simply you and him his case would be just as strong as your but when you insert the Muslim and he says yes, I know me and the Christian might not agree on everything we certainly agree that Jesus existed, was born of a Virgin and the Children of Israel plotted to kill him even though he was the Christ they were waiting for.This my friend is validation especially since you know that the Christian and the Muslim is not plotting together to fool the Jew they are telling two independent testimonies of Chrsit Jesus
Greetings B…. The validation that stands and serves as a basis is Abraham….The god of Abraham speaks to Islam through Ishmael,and christianity as well as judaism through Jacob( or Israel)…His promises speak of both being great nations with numbers as the grains of sand….Judah was given the septre ( Law) and has been a keeper of same through history….Israel was dispersed and removed from Gods sight for Idoletry with a promise that upon repentance mercy will be shown…The commonality between the Quran and The Bible start with the obedience of Abram to the eternal….The OT has not changed since its introduction….to keep the law was the commission of Judah….The NT is nothing more than a reassertion with practicle application of the original law….With the exception of the deification of Jesus the Quran restates much of the abramic covenant…
Wow,Why is that so easy for you to understand and yet baffles so many here. Great and accurate post
Good post,I agree with the deifcation of Jesus *point you made*. The Quran does restate many storys and the arambic covenant, but there are alot of things that the Quran has that dont connect to the bible.
common foundation, knowing that the Quran was written more than a centery after the bible, of course its going to restate many things that the bible has.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 21 2010,16:29) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 20 2010,02:03) Quote (theodorej @ June 20 2010,00:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 09 2010,13:03) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 09 2010,07:29) Observation:
5) Bible whether corrupted or not, cannot validate the Quran. witch means that the Quran needs to validate itself.
The bible does validate the Quran and The Quran validates the Bible.Think about it, if we were in front of a Jew and the Jew said Christ is a fairy tale there was no one named Jesus
well if it is simply you and him his case would be just as strong as your but when you insert the Muslim and he says yes, I know me and the Christian might not agree on everything we certainly agree that Jesus existed, was born of a Virgin and the Children of Israel plotted to kill him even though he was the Christ they were waiting for.This my friend is validation especially since you know that the Christian and the Muslim is not plotting together to fool the Jew they are telling two independent testimonies of Chrsit Jesus
Greetings B…. The validation that stands and serves as a basis is Abraham….The god of Abraham speaks to Islam through Ishmael,and christianity as well as judaism through Jacob( or Israel)…His promises speak of both being great nations with numbers as the grains of sand….Judah was given the septre ( Law) and has been a keeper of same through history….Israel was dispersed and removed from Gods sight for Idoletry with a promise that upon repentance mercy will be shown…The commonality between the Quran and The Bible start with the obedience of Abram to the eternal….The OT has not changed since its introduction….to keep the law was the commission of Judah….The NT is nothing more than a reassertion with practicle application of the original law….With the exception of the deification of Jesus the Quran restates much of the abramic covenant…
Wow,Why is that so easy for you to understand and yet baffles so many here. Great and accurate post
Good post,I agree with the deifcation of Jesus *point you made*. The Quran does restate many storys and the arambic covenant, but there are alot of things that the Quran has that dont connect to the bible.
common foundation, knowing that the Quran was written more than a centery after the bible, of course its going to restate many things that the bible has.
Greetings Forgiven……Point well made….I struggle with the origin of the Quran with respect to its inspirational claims…Although it does restate biblical text and must I say in most cases accurately….The deminishing of the Godhead,which consists of the Father and the Son in conjunction with the spirit or power of God is where it loses me….The prophet Mohamed claims visions and direct communication with the eternal and Iam not here to question nor would I dispute these claims….The proof is in the practice and from what I can see Gods government is theocratic,it is a living ,loving way of life that involves submission to HIS law,which is plainly laid out in the ten commandments and the Torah….Under Gods law there is no denial of liberties to either men or women….Quote (theodorej @ June 21 2010,16:09) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 21 2010,16:29) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 20 2010,02:03) Quote (theodorej @ June 20 2010,00:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 09 2010,13:03) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 09 2010,07:29) Observation:
5) Bible whether corrupted or not, cannot validate the Quran. witch means that the Quran needs to validate itself.
The bible does validate the Quran and The Quran validates the Bible.Think about it, if we were in front of a Jew and the Jew said Christ is a fairy tale there was no one named Jesus
well if it is simply you and him his case would be just as strong as your but when you insert the Muslim and he says yes, I know me and the Christian might not agree on everything we certainly agree that Jesus existed, was born of a Virgin and the Children of Israel plotted to kill him even though he was the Christ they were waiting for.This my friend is validation especially since you know that the Christian and the Muslim is not plotting together to fool the Jew they are telling two independent testimonies of Chrsit Jesus
Greetings B…. The validation that stands and serves as a basis is Abraham….The god of Abraham speaks to Islam through Ishmael,and christianity as well as judaism through Jacob( or Israel)…His promises speak of both being great nations with numbers as the grains of sand….Judah was given the septre ( Law) and has been a keeper of same through history….Israel was dispersed and removed from Gods sight for Idoletry with a promise that upon repentance mercy will be shown…The commonality between the Quran and The Bible start with the obedience of Abram to the eternal….The OT has not changed since its introduction….to keep the law was the commission of Judah….The NT is nothing more than a reassertion with practicle application of the original law….With the exception of the deification of Jesus the Quran restates much of the abramic covenant…
Wow,Why is that so easy for you to understand and yet baffles so many here. Great and accurate post
Good post,I agree with the deifcation of Jesus *point you made*. The Quran does restate many storys and the arambic covenant, but there are alot of things that the Quran has that dont connect to the bible.
common foundation, knowing that the Quran was written more than a centery after the bible, of course its going to restate many things that the bible has.
Greetings Forgiven……Point well made….I struggle with the origin of the Quran with respect to its inspirational claims…Although it does restate biblical text and must I say in most cases accurately….The deminishing of the Godhead,which consists of the Father and the Son in conjunction with the spirit or power of God is where it loses me….The prophet Mohamed claims visions and direct communication with the eternal and Iam not here to question nor would I dispute these claims….The proof is in the practice and from what I can see Gods government is theocratic,it is a living ,loving way of life that involves submission to HIS law,which is plainly laid out in the ten commandments and the Torah….Under Gods law there is no denial of liberties to either men or women….
Hi Theo,I think you need to take some time and see the points i made against the Quarn.
First of all, just becuase it sounds the same, doesnt mean it is. thats a dangerous road to take. Think about it, just because its 80 percent the same of the stories trust me when there are details that make them totally different.
Bod can second this on me, and he has even posted the scripture from the Quran stating different situations within the Quran.
in the end, the Bible has more stories than the Quran does. For example it does not have the story about Nebercanzor (i know i spelled it wrong) who is going to burn the 4 boys, but they didnt die, they didnt burn at all.
anyways it doesnt restate word its more like a counterfeit.
Muhammed cliams he received his messsage from the angel Gabriel, and not from I AM,The submission of law does not save anyone.
The law does not make you perfect, it shows you how IMPERFECT one is.
Hebrews 7:19
For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.Love is above all those things, according to 1John 4 that God is love, and to be of God, one must love. nothing else matters.
Colossians 3:14And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.The first law is spiritual, and all the laws after were against our own sinful nature. but through the first law, is the greatest commandemnt of them all.
even the phrarise understood this in Mark.
Mark 12:28And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
32And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
33And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
34And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.We are nothing without love, 1Co13
Submit all you want,
But first love He who has loved Us First, 1John4Much love,
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 21 2010,22:30) Quote (theodorej @ June 21 2010,16:09) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 21 2010,16:29) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 20 2010,02:03) Quote (theodorej @ June 20 2010,00:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 09 2010,13:03) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 09 2010,07:29) Observation:
5) Bible whether corrupted or not, cannot validate the Quran. witch means that the Quran needs to validate itself.
The bible does validate the Quran and The Quran validates the Bible.Think about it, if we were in front of a Jew and the Jew said Christ is a fairy tale there was no one named Jesus
well if it is simply you and him his case would be just as strong as your but when you insert the Muslim and he says yes, I know me and the Christian might not agree on everything we certainly agree that Jesus existed, was born of a Virgin and the Children of Israel plotted to kill him even though he was the Christ they were waiting for.This my friend is validation especially since you know that the Christian and the Muslim is not plotting together to fool the Jew they are telling two independent testimonies of Chrsit Jesus
Greetings B…. The validation that stands and serves as a basis is Abraham….The god of Abraham speaks to Islam through Ishmael,and christianity as well as judaism through Jacob( or Israel)…His promises speak of both being great nations with numbers as the grains of sand….Judah was given the septre ( Law) and has been a keeper of same through history….Israel was dispersed and removed from Gods sight for Idoletry with a promise that upon repentance mercy will be shown…The commonality between the Quran and The Bible start with the obedience of Abram to the eternal….The OT has not changed since its introduction….to keep the law was the commission of Judah….The NT is nothing more than a reassertion with practicle application of the original law….With the exception of the deification of Jesus the Quran restates much of the abramic covenant…
Wow,Why is that so easy for you to understand and yet baffles so many here. Great and accurate post
Good post,I agree with the deifcation of Jesus *point you made*. The Quran does restate many storys and the arambic covenant, but there are alot of things that the Quran has that dont connect to the bible.
common foundation, knowing that the Quran was written more than a centery after the bible, of course its going to restate many things that the bible has.
Greetings Forgiven……Point well made….I struggle with the origin of the Quran with respect to its inspirational claims…Although it does restate biblical text and must I say in most cases accurately….The deminishing of the Godhead,which consists of the Father and the Son in conjunction with the spirit or power of God is where it loses me….The prophet Mohamed claims visions and direct communication with the eternal and Iam not here to question nor would I dispute these claims….The proof is in the practice and from what I can see Gods government is theocratic,it is a living ,loving way of life that involves submission to HIS law,which is plainly laid out in the ten commandments and the Torah….Under Gods law there is no denial of liberties to either men or women….
Hi Theo,I think you need to take some time and see the points i made against the Quarn.
First of all, just becuase it sounds the same, doesnt mean it is. thats a dangerous road to take. Think about it, just because its 80 percent the same of the stories trust me when there are details that make them totally different.
Bod can second this on me, and he has even posted the scripture from the Quran stating different situations within the Quran.
in the end, the Bible has more stories than the Quran does. For example it does not have the story about Nebercanzor (i know i spelled it wrong) who is going to burn the 4 boys, but they didnt die, they didnt burn at all.
anyways it doesnt restate word its more like a counterfeit.
Muhammed cliams he received his messsage from the angel Gabriel, and not from I AM,The submission of law does not save anyone.
The law does not make you perfect, it shows you how IMPERFECT one is.
Hebrews 7:19
For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.Love is above all those things, according to 1John 4 that God is love, and to be of God, one must love. nothing else matters.
Colossians 3:14And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.The first law is spiritual, and all the laws after were against our own sinful nature. but through the first law, is the greatest commandemnt of them all.
even the phrarise understood this in Mark.
Mark 12:28And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
32And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
33And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
34And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.We are nothing without love, 1Co13
Submit all you want,
But first love He who has loved Us First, 1John4Much love,
Greetings Forgiven…..The Bible is the inspired word of God and it stands as education for the unknown and prophesy of things to come….Any connection between the
teachings of the Quran and the Bible are routed in antiquity and it is my feeling that given the times we live in the Quran serves as a proof of things to come as per Biblical prophesy….Let us reflect on Gen: when we are told that the decendants of Ishmael will be at the throats of his brothers….Forgive the loose correlation Iam not a chapter and verse reciter… If I were in front of a Jew who said that Jesus was a fairy tale I would point to Jesus'geneology and emphasize that some day we will all stand before the quintessential Jew…There would be no way possible for Muhammad to have simply copied from the bible the information that is in the bible and bibles were not
just laying around available for everyone to readas they are today. Bibles didn't really become available to the Masses until Gutenberg invented the printing press in around 1439The key point about the Quran also is that it was given in Arabic
We have sent it down as an arabic Qur'an, in order that ye may learn wisdom.
( سورة يوسف , Yusuf, Chapter #12, Verse #2)We know indeed that they say, “It is a man that teaches him.” The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is arabic, pure and clear.
( سورة النحل , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #103)Thus have We sent this down – an arabic Qur'an – and explained therein in detail some of the warnings, in order that they may fear Allah, or that it may cause their remembrance (of Him).
( سورة طه , Taha, Chapter #20, Verse #113)In the perspicuous arabic tongue.
( سورة الشعراء , Ash-Shuara, Chapter #26, Verse #195)It is) a Qur'an in arabic, without any crookedness (therein): in order that they may guard against Evil.
( سورة الزمر , Az-Zumar, Chapter #39, Verse #28)A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in arabic, for people who understand;-
( سورة فصلت , Fussilat, Chapter #41, Verse #3)Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than arabic, they would have said: “Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in arabic and (a Messenger an Arab?” Say: “It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes): They are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!”
( سورة فصلت , Fussilat, Chapter #41, Verse #44)Quote (bodhitharta @ June 21 2010,20:26) There would be no way possible for Muhammad to have simply copied from the bible the information that is in the bible and bibles were not
just laying around available for everyone to readas they are today. Bibles didn't really become available to the Masses until Gutenberg invented the printing press in around 1439The key point about the Quran also is that it was given in Arabic
We have sent it down as an arabic Qur'an, in order that ye may learn wisdom.
( سورة يوسف , Yusuf, Chapter #12, Verse #2)We know indeed that they say, “It is a man that teaches him.” The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is arabic, pure and clear.
( سورة النحل , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #103)Thus have We sent this down – an arabic Qur'an – and explained therein in detail some of the warnings, in order that they may fear Allah, or that it may cause their remembrance (of Him).
( سورة طه , Taha, Chapter #20, Verse #113)In the perspicuous arabic tongue.
( سورة الشعراء , Ash-Shuara, Chapter #26, Verse #195)It is) a Qur'an in arabic, without any crookedness (therein): in order that they may guard against Evil.
( سورة الزمر , Az-Zumar, Chapter #39, Verse #28)A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in arabic, for people who understand;-
( سورة فصلت , Fussilat, Chapter #41, Verse #3)Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than arabic, they would have said: “Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in arabic and (a Messenger an Arab?” Say: “It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes): They are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!”
( سورة فصلت , Fussilat, Chapter #41, Verse #44)
Nor revelant Bod,
Since the stories are not exactly alike, they are not a perfect recited text of the bible.they sound different becaues these stories are told as part of culture,
by the time mohammed recieved it, it might have sounded different in some points and the same in others,common foundation.
the bible didnt have to be avaible
Quote (bodhitharta @ June 21 2010,15:57) you didn't send your book yet
Hi BD,You're not asking questions to learn from are you? (Luke 11:54)
Your only requesting the free e-book called “HolyCityBibleCode”
to try to poke holes in it's contents; which you already admitted.
I will not help you in this type of endeavor, I told you this before!Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 22 2010,06:42) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 21 2010,20:26) There would be no way possible for Muhammad to have simply copied from the bible the information that is in the bible and bibles were not
just laying around available for everyone to readas they are today. Bibles didn't really become available to the Masses until Gutenberg invented the printing press in around 1439The key point about the Quran also is that it was given in Arabic
We have sent it down as an arabic Qur'an, in order that ye may learn wisdom.
( سورة يوسف , Yusuf, Chapter #12, Verse #2)We know indeed that they say, “It is a man that teaches him.” The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is arabic, pure and clear.
( سورة النحل , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #103)Thus have We sent this down – an arabic Qur'an – and explained therein in detail some of the warnings, in order that they may fear Allah, or that it may cause their remembrance (of Him).
( سورة طه , Taha, Chapter #20, Verse #113)In the perspicuous arabic tongue.
( سورة الشعراء , Ash-Shuara, Chapter #26, Verse #195)It is) a Qur'an in arabic, without any crookedness (therein): in order that they may guard against Evil.
( سورة الزمر , Az-Zumar, Chapter #39, Verse #28)A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in arabic, for people who understand;-
( سورة فصلت , Fussilat, Chapter #41, Verse #3)Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than arabic, they would have said: “Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in arabic and (a Messenger an Arab?” Say: “It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes): They are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!”
( سورة فصلت , Fussilat, Chapter #41, Verse #44)
Nor revelant Bod,
Since the stories are not exactly alike, they are not a perfect recited text of the bible.they sound different becaues these stories are told as part of culture,
by the time mohammed recieved it, it might have sounded different in some points and the same in others,common foundation.
the bible didnt have to be avaible
The greatest failure of this point of view you have in regards to forgery and plagiary is why would anyone at the height of Christianity declare that Jesus didn't die on the cross and in the middle of the height of Judaism that Jesus is The Christ wouldn't that just be a foolish couple of things to make up?Yet, Islam has overcome both
Quote (bodhitharta @ June 22 2010,10:21) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 22 2010,06:42) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 21 2010,20:26) There would be no way possible for Muhammad to have simply copied from the bible the information that is in the bible and bibles were not
just laying around available for everyone to readas they are today. Bibles didn't really become available to the Masses until Gutenberg invented the printing press in around 1439The key point about the Quran also is that it was given in Arabic
We have sent it down as an arabic Qur'an, in order that ye may learn wisdom.
( سورة يوسف , Yusuf, Chapter #12, Verse #2)We know indeed that they say, “It is a man that teaches him.” The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is arabic, pure and clear.
( سورة النحل , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #103)Thus have We sent this down – an arabic Qur'an – and explained therein in detail some of the warnings, in order that they may fear Allah, or that it may cause their remembrance (of Him).
( سورة طه , Taha, Chapter #20, Verse #113)In the perspicuous arabic tongue.
( سورة الشعراء , Ash-Shuara, Chapter #26, Verse #195)It is) a Qur'an in arabic, without any crookedness (therein): in order that they may guard against Evil.
( سورة الزمر , Az-Zumar, Chapter #39, Verse #28)A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in arabic, for people who understand;-
( سورة فصلت , Fussilat, Chapter #41, Verse #3)Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than arabic, they would have said: “Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in arabic and (a Messenger an Arab?” Say: “It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes): They are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!”
( سورة فصلت , Fussilat, Chapter #41, Verse #44)
Nor revelant Bod,
Since the stories are not exactly alike, they are not a perfect recited text of the bible.they sound different becaues these stories are told as part of culture,
by the time mohammed recieved it, it might have sounded different in some points and the same in others,common foundation.
the bible didnt have to be avaible
The greatest failure of this point of view you have in regards to forgery and plagiary is why would anyone at the height of Christianity declare that Jesus didn't die on the cross and in the middle of the height of Judaism that Jesus is The Christ wouldn't that just be a foolish couple of things to make up?Yet, Islam has overcome both
allah + islam = Lake of fireRev. 20:10: And the devil (Gal.1:8) that deceived them was cast into the 'lake of fire' and brimstone,
where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
.Rev.19:20-21 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet
that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that
had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image.
These both were cast alive into a 'lake of fire' burning with brimstone. And
the remnant were slain with the sword of him (Rev.19:11) that sat upon the horse,
which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
.Quote (bodhitharta @ June 22 2010,02:26) There would be no way possible for Muhammad to have simply copied from the bible the information that is in the bible and bibles were not
just laying around available for everyone to readas they are today. Bibles didn't really become available to the Masses until Gutenberg invented the printing press in around 1439The key point about the Quran also is that it was given in Arabic
We have sent it down as an arabic Qur'an, in order that ye may learn wisdom.
( سورة يوسف , Yusuf, Chapter #12, Verse #2)We know indeed that they say, “It is a man that teaches him.” The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is arabic, pure and clear.
( سورة النحل , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #103)Thus have We sent this down – an arabic Qur'an – and explained therein in detail some of the warnings, in order that they may fear Allah, or that it may cause their remembrance (of Him).
( سورة طه , Taha, Chapter #20, Verse #113)In the perspicuous arabic tongue.
( سورة الشعراء , Ash-Shuara, Chapter #26, Verse #195)It is) a Qur'an in arabic, without any crookedness (therein): in order that they may guard against Evil.
( سورة الزمر , Az-Zumar, Chapter #39, Verse #28)A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in arabic, for people who understand;-
( سورة فصلت , Fussilat, Chapter #41, Verse #3)Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than arabic, they would have said: “Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in arabic and (a Messenger an Arab?” Say: “It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes): They are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!”
( سورة فصلت , Fussilat, Chapter #41, Verse #44)
Greetings B…..You are absolutely correct there were no copies of the bible available to Mohamed,but the written word of the torah was, and the keepers of the law were Jews….The same Jews that hid the written word in the caves of Quram( The Essenes )…..Quote (Ed J @ June 21 2010,07:55) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 21 2010,03:13) Quote (Ed J @ June 20 2010,15:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 20 2010,15:13) Quote (Ed J @ June 20 2010,10:05) Hi BD, It is antichrist to preach different Jesus and that's what the 'book of fraud' does!
.
Is your book the book of fraud? You definitely preach another Jesus one who was linked with Lucifer
Hi BD,Is that why you requested it;
to try to use the information against me?
The quran (with 114 suras) is the 'book of fraud'=114!
You and your lovely numberskeep the faith= 114
Importance=114
History=114
Its all good=114
The grace of God=114.
A evil princeJohn 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for
the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
.
.
Devil's book=114.
Quote (Ed J @ June 22 2010,14:01) Quote (Ed J @ June 21 2010,07:55) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 21 2010,03:13) Quote (Ed J @ June 20 2010,15:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 20 2010,15:13) Quote (Ed J @ June 20 2010,10:05) Hi BD, It is antichrist to preach different Jesus and that's what the 'book of fraud' does!
.
Is your book the book of fraud? You definitely preach another Jesus one who was linked with Lucifer
Hi BD,Is that why you requested it;
to try to use the information against me?
The quran (with 114 suras) is the 'book of fraud'=114!
You and your lovely numberskeep the faith= 114
Importance=114
History=114
Its all good=114
The grace of God=114.
A evil princeJohn 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for
the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
.
.
Devil's book=114.
Moses book=114 really ED? so desperateAct of God book= 114
Ed, please leave these numbers alone you think they mean something but when I ask you what does 114 mean or 117 mean or any number you clam up because you have no idea what anything means
Quote (bodhitharta @ June 22 2010,14:39) Quote (Ed J @ June 22 2010,14:01) Quote (Ed J @ June 21 2010,07:55) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 21 2010,03:13) Quote (Ed J @ June 20 2010,15:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 20 2010,15:13) Quote (Ed J @ June 20 2010,10:05) Hi BD, It is antichrist to preach different Jesus and that's what the 'book of fraud' does!
.
Is your book the book of fraud? You definitely preach another Jesus one who was linked with Lucifer
Hi BD,Is that why you requested it;
to try to use the information against me?
The quran (with 114 suras) is the 'book of fraud'=114!
You and your lovely numberskeep the faith= 114
Importance=114
History=114
Its all good=114
The grace of God=114.
A evil princeJohn 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for
the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
.
.
Devil's book=114.
Moses book=114 really ED? so desperateAct of God book= 114
Ed, please leave these numbers alone you think they mean something but when I ask you what does 114 mean or 117 mean or any number you clam up because you have no idea what anything means
Hi BD,'new death' allah=114
Rev.20:14 And death and hell were cast into the 'lake of fire'=88.
(quran + allah = 88) This is the second death. (Revelation 2:11)Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
2Cor.3:6-11 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit:
for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones,
was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his
countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (bodhitharta @ June 22 2010,04:21) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 22 2010,06:42) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 21 2010,20:26) There would be no way possible for Muhammad to have simply copied from the bible the information that is in the bible and bibles were not
just laying around available for everyone to readas they are today. Bibles didn't really become available to the Masses until Gutenberg invented the printing press in around 1439The key point about the Quran also is that it was given in Arabic
We have sent it down as an arabic Qur'an, in order that ye may learn wisdom.
( سورة يوسف , Yusuf, Chapter #12, Verse #2)We know indeed that they say, “It is a man that teaches him.” The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is arabic, pure and clear.
( سورة النحل , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #103)Thus have We sent this down – an arabic Qur'an – and explained therein in detail some of the warnings, in order that they may fear Allah, or that it may cause their remembrance (of Him).
( سورة طه , Taha, Chapter #20, Verse #113)In the perspicuous arabic tongue.
( سورة الشعراء , Ash-Shuara, Chapter #26, Verse #195)It is) a Qur'an in arabic, without any crookedness (therein): in order that they may guard against Evil.
( سورة الزمر , Az-Zumar, Chapter #39, Verse #28)A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in arabic, for people who understand;-
( سورة فصلت , Fussilat, Chapter #41, Verse #3)Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than arabic, they would have said: “Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in arabic and (a Messenger an Arab?” Say: “It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes): They are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!”
( سورة فصلت , Fussilat, Chapter #41, Verse #44)
Nor revelant Bod,
Since the stories are not exactly alike, they are not a perfect recited text of the bible.they sound different becaues these stories are told as part of culture,
by the time mohammed recieved it, it might have sounded different in some points and the same in others,common foundation.
the bible didnt have to be avaible
The greatest failure of this point of view you have in regards to forgery and plagiary is why would anyone at the height of Christianity declare that Jesus didn't die on the cross and in the middle of the height of Judaism that Jesus is The Christ wouldn't that just be a foolish couple of things to make up?Yet, Islam has overcome both
lol bod,are you serious,
the failure is on the Quran, who cant prove how Christ didnt die on the cross, 100 YEARS LATER, by some random guy, supposly from an Angel,whom do we believe, the witness who was there, or the Guy 100 years later….
intresting.
Quote (theodorej @ June 21 2010,19:32) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 21 2010,22:30) Quote (theodorej @ June 21 2010,16:09) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 21 2010,16:29) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 20 2010,02:03) Quote (theodorej @ June 20 2010,00:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 09 2010,13:03) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 09 2010,07:29) Observation:
5) Bible whether corrupted or not, cannot validate the Quran. witch means that the Quran needs to validate itself.
The bible does validate the Quran and The Quran validates the Bible.Think about it, if we were in front of a Jew and the Jew said Christ is a fairy tale there was no one named Jesus
well if it is simply you and him his case would be just as strong as your but when you insert the Muslim and he says yes, I know me and the Christian might not agree on everything we certainly agree that Jesus existed, was born of a Virgin and the Children of Israel plotted to kill him even though he was the Christ they were waiting for.This my friend is validation especially since you know that the Christian and the Muslim is not plotting together to fool the Jew they are telling two independent testimonies of Chrsit Jesus
Greetings B…. The validation that stands and serves as a basis is Abraham….The god of Abraham speaks to Islam through Ishmael,and christianity as well as judaism through Jacob( or Israel)…His promises speak of both being great nations with numbers as the grains of sand….Judah was given the septre ( Law) and has been a keeper of same through history….Israel was dispersed and removed from Gods sight for Idoletry with a promise that upon repentance mercy will be shown…The commonality between the Quran and The Bible start with the obedience of Abram to the eternal….The OT has not changed since its introduction….to keep the law was the commission of Judah….The NT is nothing more than a reassertion with practicle application of the original law….With the exception of the deification of Jesus the Quran restates much of the abramic covenant…
Wow,Why is that so easy for you to understand and yet baffles so many here. Great and accurate post
Good post,I agree with the deifcation of Jesus *point you made*. The Quran does restate many storys and the arambic covenant, but there are alot of things that the Quran has that dont connect to the bible.
common foundation, knowing that the Quran was written more than a centery after the bible, of course its going to restate many things that the bible has.
Greetings Forgiven……Point well made….I struggle with the origin of the Quran with respect to its inspirational claims…Although it does restate biblical text and must I say in most cases accurately….The deminishing of the Godhead,which consists of the Father and the Son in conjunction with the spirit or power of God is where it loses me….The prophet Mohamed claims visions and direct communication with the eternal and Iam not here to question nor would I dispute these claims….The proof is in the practice and from what I can see Gods government is theocratic,it is a living ,loving way of life that involves submission to HIS law,which is plainly laid out in the ten commandments and the Torah….Under Gods law there is no denial of liberties to either men or women….
Hi Theo,I think you need to take some time and see the points i made against the Quarn.
First of all, just becuase it sounds the same, doesnt mean it is. thats a dangerous road to take. Think about it, just because its 80 percent the same of the stories trust me when there are details that make them totally different.
Bod can second this on me, and he has even posted the scripture from the Quran stating different situations within the Quran.
in the end, the Bible has more stories than the Quran does. For example it does not have the story about Nebercanzor (i know i spelled it wrong) who is going to burn the 4 boys, but they didnt die, they didnt burn at all.
anyways it doesnt restate word its more like a counterfeit.
Muhammed cliams he received his messsage from the angel Gabriel, and not from I AM,The submission of law does not save anyone.
The law does not make you perfect, it shows you how IMPERFECT one is.
Hebrews 7:19
For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.Love is above all those things, according to 1John 4 that God is love, and to be of God, one must love. nothing else matters.
Colossians 3:14And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.The first law is spiritual, and all the laws after were against our own sinful nature. but through the first law, is the greatest commandemnt of them all.
even the phrarise understood this in Mark.
Mark 12:28And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
32And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
33And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
34And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.We are nothing without love, 1Co13
Submit all you want,
But first love He who has loved Us First, 1John4Much love,
Greetings Forgiven…..The Bible is the inspired word of God and it stands as education for the unknown and prophesy of things to come….Any connection between the teachings of the Quran and the Bible are routed in antiquity and it is my feeling that given the times we live in the Quran serves as a proof of things to come as per Biblical prophesy….Let us reflect on Gen: when we are told that the decendants of Ishmael will be at the throats of his brothers….Forgive the loose correlation Iam not a chapter and verse reciter… If I were in front of a Jew who said that Jesus was a fairy tale I would point to Jesus'geneology and emphasize that some day we will all stand before the quintessential Jew…
The bible is inspired by God,The Quran is just the counterfeited of it.
If i draw a vampire right now, and you do as well I ASSURE YOU that our vampire drawings will be different.
they will have common foundation though, fangs, blood sucking, dead. and what not,but mine might be black, and yours might be dracula.
is it the same vampire? NO.The God of the Quran is not the same as the God of the bible.
By Quran claiming to for correct interpretation from allah is based of a educated muslim to read from both books is a fallacy.
its an intellectual psychological trap.
dont be fooled.
Quote (theodorej @ June 22 2010,07:50) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 22 2010,02:26) There would be no way possible for Muhammad to have simply copied from the bible the information that is in the bible and bibles were not
just laying around available for everyone to readas they are today. Bibles didn't really become available to the Masses until Gutenberg invented the printing press in around 1439The key point about the Quran also is that it was given in Arabic
We have sent it down as an arabic Qur'an, in order that ye may learn wisdom.
( سورة يوسف , Yusuf, Chapter #12, Verse #2)We know indeed that they say, “It is a man that teaches him.” The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is arabic, pure and clear.
( سورة النحل , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #103)Thus have We sent this down – an arabic Qur'an – and explained therein in detail some of the warnings, in order that they may fear Allah, or that it may cause their remembrance (of Him).
( سورة طه , Taha, Chapter #20, Verse #113)In the perspicuous arabic tongue.
( سورة الشعراء , Ash-Shuara, Chapter #26, Verse #195)It is) a Qur'an in arabic, without any crookedness (therein): in order that they may guard against Evil.
( سورة الزمر , Az-Zumar, Chapter #39, Verse #28)A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in arabic, for people who understand;-
( سورة فصلت , Fussilat, Chapter #41, Verse #3)Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than arabic, they would have said: “Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in arabic and (a Messenger an Arab?” Say: “It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes): They are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!”
( سورة فصلت , Fussilat, Chapter #41, Verse #44)
Greetings B…..You are absolutely correct there were no copies of the bible available to Mohamed,but the written word of the torah was, and the keepers of the law were Jews….The same Jews that hid the written word in the caves of Quram( The Essenes )…..
Bod,to extend THeo point.
The bible did not have to be avialable. and if you note the stories, that the stories are more alike to the Torah than the gospel.
The gospel is farther apart than the Torah in correlation to the Quran.
it was smart tactic.
How did people know about the gospel? because the apostles PREACHeD IT!!!!!!
people talked and talke and talked, and it went into one ear into some elses. that even the Roman empire destroyed israel!!!
how did mohammed not know about this?I think mohammed was a evil genius. you must think he is a holy idioit.
Its either he is oblivious to everything abuot the jews and knew nothing and poof one day an angel appeared and showed him stuff.
or its that he knew the stories, and heard about the israel and about the Christians, and based on what he knew, he created the Quran.
how is a prophet confirmed? by his wife? wasnt mohammed confirmed by his wife?
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 22 2010,17:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 22 2010,04:21) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 22 2010,06:42) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 21 2010,20:26) There would be no way possible for Muhammad to have simply copied from the bible the information that is in the bible and bibles were not
just laying around available for everyone to readas they are today. Bibles didn't really become available to the Masses until Gutenberg invented the printing press in around 1439The key point about the Quran also is that it was given in Arabic
We have sent it down as an arabic Qur'an, in order that ye may learn wisdom.
( سورة يوسف , Yusuf, Chapter #12, Verse #2)We know indeed that they say, “It is a man that teaches him.” The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is arabic, pure and clear.
( سورة النحل , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #103)Thus have We sent this down – an arabic Qur'an – and explained therein in detail some of the warnings, in order that they may fear Allah, or that it may cause their remembrance (of Him).
( سورة طه , Taha, Chapter #20, Verse #113)In the perspicuous arabic tongue.
( سورة الشعراء , Ash-Shuara, Chapter #26, Verse #195)It is) a Qur'an in arabic, without any crookedness (therein): in order that they may guard against Evil.
( سورة الزمر , Az-Zumar, Chapter #39, Verse #28)A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in arabic, for people who understand;-
( سورة فصلت , Fussilat, Chapter #41, Verse #3)Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than arabic, they would have said: “Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in arabic and (a Messenger an Arab?” Say: “It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes): They are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!”
( سورة فصلت , Fussilat, Chapter #41, Verse #44)
Nor revelant Bod,
Since the stories are not exactly alike, they are not a perfect recited text of the bible.they sound different becaues these stories are told as part of culture,
by the time mohammed recieved it, it might have sounded different in some points and the same in others,common foundation.
the bible didnt have to be avaible
The greatest failure of this point of view you have in regards to forgery and plagiary is why would anyone at the height of Christianity declare that Jesus didn't die on the cross and in the middle of the height of Judaism that Jesus is The Christ wouldn't that just be a foolish couple of things to make up?Yet, Islam has overcome both
lol bod,are you serious,
the failure is on the Quran, who cant prove how Christ didnt die on the cross, 100 YEARS LATER, by some random guy, supposly from an Angel,whom do we believe, the witness who was there, or the Guy 100 years later….
intresting.
There were no witnessess, no one who wrote the Gospels witnessed Jesus Crucified, they also couldn't have witnessed the conversations between Jesus and Herod or pilate and why?Mark 14:50
And they all forsook him, and fled.The Gospels are witness to many but not all events listed, much of it is filled in with speculation.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 22 2010,17:41) Quote (theodorej @ June 22 2010,07:50) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 22 2010,02:26) There would be no way possible for Muhammad to have simply copied from the bible the information that is in the bible and bibles were not
just laying around available for everyone to readas they are today. Bibles didn't really become available to the Masses until Gutenberg invented the printing press in around 1439The key point about the Quran also is that it was given in Arabic
We have sent it down as an arabic Qur'an, in order that ye may learn wisdom.
( سورة يوسف , Yusuf, Chapter #12, Verse #2)We know indeed that they say, “It is a man that teaches him.” The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is arabic, pure and clear.
( سورة النحل , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #103)Thus have We sent this down – an arabic Qur'an – and explained therein in detail some of the warnings, in order that they may fear Allah, or that it may cause their remembrance (of Him).
( سورة طه , Taha, Chapter #20, Verse #113)In the perspicuous arabic tongue.
( سورة الشعراء , Ash-Shuara, Chapter #26, Verse #195)It is) a Qur'an in arabic, without any crookedness (therein): in order that they may guard against Evil.
( سورة الزمر , Az-Zumar, Chapter #39, Verse #28)A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in arabic, for people who understand;-
( سورة فصلت , Fussilat, Chapter #41, Verse #3)Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than arabic, they would have said: “Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in arabic and (a Messenger an Arab?” Say: “It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes): They are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!”
( سورة فصلت , Fussilat, Chapter #41, Verse #44)
Greetings B…..You are absolutely correct there were no copies of the bible available to Mohamed,but the written word of the torah was, and the keepers of the law were Jews….The same Jews that hid the written word in the caves of Quram( The Essenes )…..
Bod,to extend THeo point.
The bible did not have to be avialable. and if you note the stories, that the stories are more alike to the Torah than the gospel.
The gospel is farther apart than the Torah in correlation to the Quran.
it was smart tactic.
How did people know about the gospel? because the apostles PREACHeD IT!!!!!!
people talked and talke and talked, and it went into one ear into some elses. that even the Roman empire destroyed israel!!!
how did mohammed not know about this?I think mohammed was a evil genius. you must think he is a holy idioit.
Its either he is oblivious to everything abuot the jews and knew nothing and poof one day an angel appeared and showed him stuff.
or its that he knew the stories, and heard about the israel and about the Christians, and based on what he knew, he created the Quran.
how is a prophet confirmed? by his wife? wasnt mohammed confirmed by his wife?
You still would have a problem concerning the questionWhy would Muhammad
1. Confirm that Jesus is The Christ born of a virgin
2. Reveal that this Jesus The Christ was not crucified or killed
No Chistian or Jew would agree with both of those statements and therefore how would he hearof or believe in either statement unless it was revealed to him?
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