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Quote Well no wonder he is here, then. He cannot “speak his mind at home….”. Mandy, does it make sense to you, at all, for him to believe that JW's are a “daughter of the whore of babylon” and to speak negatively about the many things he disagrees with…. and yet, for him to go to our meetings?
Quote It sounds like JW's demand complete compliance then?
What they scripturally demand, is that you not be an apostate.Quote What kind of religion is this?
If you check, you'll find that first century Christianity was extremely unpopular with the “politically correct” type.Quote It certainly is unlike any Christian church I have known or been a part of.
Yes, it definitely is. It's probably the most different. Jesus wasn't popular. His followers weren't popular. Their message wasn't popular. Their beliefs, their attitudes, weren't popular. The way they lived their lives weren't popular…..And yes, disfellowshipping (what most other churches would call “ex-communication”) isn't popular.
I mean, no other religion really actually practices this biblical teaching, do they? Extreme example: Hitler. He wasn't excommunicated from the Catholic church. So what do you have to do in most religions to be removed?As DK admits, disfellowshiping is scriptural, even if he doesn't agree with the methods of JW's.
Hi David,
Quote Mandy, does it make sense to you, at all, for him to believe that JW's are a “daughter of the whore of babylon” and to speak negatively about the many things he disagrees with…. and yet, for him to go to our meetings?
It does make absolute sense. Were you listening when he shared that his family is tied into the JW's from the top down? This religion is not only a Hall that he visits, it's his blood-family along with probably a huge support system for him. It's what he knows and has trusted for many years, I imagine. So, yes I can believe that while he is deciding what he wants to let go of, he continues to celebrate Christ with them as he let's go of some things…..or questions other's.Quote Christianity was extremely unpopular with the “politically correct” type.
Yes, I have been deemed a “PC” type before. To some degree I do not apologize for this. Tolerance and allowing other's to make their choices and find their own way goes a long way in understanding and loving your brother.Quote Jesus wasn't popular.
Is this why people followed him everywhere? Is this why he was invited to dinner at probably more houses than he could attend? Is this why he had expensive perfumed poured onto his feet? Is this why folks would go hungry and walk miles and miles in the hot sun to hear his words? If Jesus wasn't popular I'll eat my bikini (it's so hot here I've been in it all day – 88 degrees here in Washington – it's amazing).Quote Is this why people followed him everywhere? No, it's why they killed him, some of his followers, persecuted others, etc.
Quote If Jesus wasn't popular I'll eat my bikini No need to do that! Maybe popular was the wrong word. “liked.” The majority didn't like him. Yes, he was well known, but most didn't follow him. A lot did, but many didn't.
Regarding his followers he said:
MATTHEW 24:9-10
“Then people will deliver YOU up to tribulation and will kill YOU, and YOU will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name.”JOHN 15:17-20
“If the world hates YOU, YOU know that it has hated me before it hated YOU. If YOU were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because YOU are no part of the world, but I have chosen YOU out of the world, on this account the world hates YOU. Bear in mind the word I said to YOU, A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will persecute YOU also; if they have observed my word, they will observe YOURS also.”MATTHEW 10:24-25
““A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a slave above his lord. It is enough for the disciple to become as his teacher, and the slave as his lord. If people have called the householder Beeĺzebub, how much more [will they call] those of his household so?”MATTHEW 10:22
“And YOU will be objects of hatred by all people on account of my name; but he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.”2 TIMOTHY 3:12
“In fact, all those desiring to live with godly devotion in association with Christ Jesus will also be persecuted.”The good news, the truth about Christ, it will divide people:
MATTHEW 10:34-37
“Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man’s enemies will be persons of his own household. He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me.”MATTHEW 5:10-12
““Happy are those who have been persecuted for righteousness’ sake, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them. “Happy are YOU when people reproach YOU and persecute YOU and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against YOU for my sake. Rejoice and leap for joy, since YOUR reward is great in the heavens; for in that way they persecuted the prophets prior to YOU.”Jesus himself said that he was hated by the world.
Quote (it's so hot here I've been in it all day – 88 degrees here in Washington – it's amazing).
Quite warm here too. 30 Celcius. Don't know what that is in ferenheit.“If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you. . . . A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will persecute you also.” (John 15:18, 20)
Why would they be hated?
Because, like Jesus, they are “no part of the world.” (John 17:14, 16)
ie: They are not politically or worldy correct.
The world does things it's way. Jesus followers do not copy that way. And so they are hated.
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 30 2008,14:34) Quote (david @ June 30 2008,14:26) While I believe he does speak his mind at home
Well no wonder he is here, then. He cannot “speak his mind at home….”. How sad. It sounds like JW's demand complete compliance then? What kind of religion is this? It certainly is unlike any Christian church I have known or been a part of.
I do speak my mind when I feel it is needed..but you are right…they do demand complete compliance…and they use this scripture to show why we should never doubt the organization..
Philippians 2:2…2then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose.
oh lets not forget this one
Philippians 1:27… 27Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then, whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in one spirit, contending as one man for the faith of the gospel
almost forgot this one…
Ephesians 4:4…4There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called—
suffice it to say…this point Paul was trying to make is completely missed…I don't think Paul meant for us to be mindless drones…but thats another thread
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 30 2008,14:58) Hi David, Quote Mandy, does it make sense to you, at all, for him to believe that JW's are a “daughter of the whore of babylon” and to speak negatively about the many things he disagrees with…. and yet, for him to go to our meetings?
It does make absolute sense. Were you listening when he shared that his family is tied into the JW's from the top down? This religion is not only a Hall that he visits, it's his blood-family along with probably a huge support system for him. It's what he knows and has trusted for many years, I imagine. So, yes I can believe that while he is deciding what he wants to let go of, he continues to celebrate Christ with them as he let's go of some things…..or questions other's.Quote Christianity was extremely unpopular with the “politically correct” type.
Yes, I have been deemed a “PC” type before. To some degree I do not apologize for this. Tolerance and allowing other's to make their choices and find their own way goes a long way in understanding and loving your brother.Quote Jesus wasn't popular.
Is this why people followed him everywhere? Is this why he was invited to dinner at probably more houses than he could attend? Is this why he had expensive perfumed poured onto his feet? Is this why folks would go hungry and walk miles and miles in the hot sun to hear his words? If Jesus wasn't popular I'll eat my bikini (it's so hot here I've been in it all day – 88 degrees here in Washington – it's amazing).
Wow…so much understanding and love from an unbeliever ( i say that in jest ) Maybe the body of Christ and Christianity extends beond the walls of the Hall after all… Mandy…I am continually blessed by you
May Peace and Blessings richly envelope your days
Hallelujah!!!
You know David and the JW's don't believe you worship in spirit and truth because you are not a JW…thats why I made the comments about “unbelievers”…
Of course I think otherwise
dirtyknections I can really sympathize with you. My Husband likes to talk about the Bible and when two J.W. showed up at our Door, He let them in. The one man told me that I did not worship the Father and the way He said that, made me very upset.
They have not been around for awhile, and I hope they stay away.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (david @ June 30 2008,15:09) 30 Celcius. Don't know what that is in ferenheit.
88F = 31C So we were about the same today! We're not used to these temp's. It's nice for swimming, boating and all that. But to be honest, we have been so busy with baseball and other things that the heat just took all my energy away today.Quote (david @ June 30 2008,15:18) “If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you. . . . A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will persecute you also.” (John 15:18, 20) Why would they be hated?
Because, like Jesus, they are “no part of the world.” (John 17:14, 16)
ie: They are not politically or worldy correct.
The world does things it's way. Jesus followers do not copy that way. And so they are hated.
David, thanks for all the verses and time it took to put them together. It did clarify quite nicely what you were trying to say. Thanks. Yes, I guess the world did hate him…… But his follower's loved him dearly. I guess that was the point I was trying to make. I see your point now, too.Quote (Irene @ June 30 2008,16:06) dirtyknections I can really sympathize with you. My Husband likes to talk about the Bible and when two J.W. showed up at our Door, He let them in. The one man told me that I did not worship the Father and the way He said that, made me very upset.
They have not been around for awhile, and I hope they stay away.
Peace and Love Irene
Hi Irene,It sounds like you have had a very bad experience with the JW visitor's. As for me, the same ladies have been coming to my door since 2003 and we have become great friends! When we see each other around town, we hug hello. We've had some great studies together and I do plan to visit their meetings because they have invited me. But I've always found other belief system's extremely interesting.
I remember as an elementary student asking my mom if I could go with a friend to her Mormon church. I had been invited and I was very curious. She let me go and then within days their Mormon nuns came to convert the family. Egads! My mom never let me visit another faith church again.
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