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Hi kenrch,
He was born a son of man.
Jb 25
“4How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?5Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight.
6How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?”
He had to overcome sin as he faced temptation.
He had to overcome – this is why Jesus can relate to us!
Believe me, I've counted on that reality even today!
Hi Not3 ,
When you are in a plane looking down at dots that move along threads called roads and these dots contain people then why do we think we are something?
Or if on the ground looking up we see a dot at the head of a jetstream and that dot represents 350 people why do we think we deserve the love of God?
We are nothing.
We deserve nothing.
We should fear God and not develop theories about Him.Nick, so true.
And yet we do…….develop theories, don't we?
One man's theories are another man's truth. One man's truth are another man's theories. And so the wisdom of man goes.
Hi not3,
Actually we do not.
Human masters do and men who should be following Christ instead follow themQuote (Not3in1 @ April 17 2007,08:02) Isaiah, I went right to Hebrews 1:3 to check out essence…..
What I found was that Jesus is God's representative. This has always been interesting to me. Because to be someone's representative (albeit “exact” representative), you are still ONLY the representative of that person – you are not that person. To represent someone is to act in their stead. That is what Jesus was doing here on earth – acting in God's stead.
Jesus also radiates God's glory as the one and only Son of God. God has all glory – he is God – he rules from heaven. I can't imagine the throne room, can you? It must contain some of the prettiest colors we have ever seen. The glory must be breathtaking, for lack of a better way to describe it. Jesus, as God's son, will certainly “reflect” some of the glory that he was given as the Son. That makes perfect sense to me.
What this verse doesn't say, is that as the second person of the triune God – Jesus is equal with God in essence. It does not. It says, Jesus represents that essence. Am I wrong?
A representative of what though?….Not3, how would you define “hypostasis”?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 17 2007,09:45) Hi kenrch,
He was born a son of man.
Jb 25
“4How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?5Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight.
6How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?”
He had to overcome sin as he faced temptation.
So Jesus was born with the sin of Adam from Mary?The Word became flesh that was sin as you and I? Which is why He had to be Baptized “born again”. So the Son of God (actualy born of God) was in a fleshly sinfull body and had to repent of sin and be Baptized?
Scripture says that He was TEMPTED AS YOU AND I. So was He born under sin Or just tempted after His baptism?
I believe He was tempted more than you and I Satan came after Him with everything he had.
Was He tempted before He was baptized?
You guys are cracken me up
Nick – we DO make theories! A theory is a guess. Sometimes I read things from you, and others and I think – where did they get that? It's not in scripture, well, then, it's a theory. The theory may even be truth – but it's still a guess! Some things are not written in scripture, and being men (and women), we are used to filling in the blanks. Why do you think we have Trinitarians on this board that do not agree 100% with one another? The same is true for us so-called Unitarians. We make individual guesses along the way to forming our various theologies. It happens. As spiritual as we want to be – as close to the scriptures as we want to be – we all have done it here.
The world is founded on theories.
Quote (kenrch @ April 18 2007,01:37) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 17 2007,09:45) Hi kenrch,
He was born a son of man.
Jb 25
“4How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?5Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight.
6How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?”
He had to overcome sin as he faced temptation.
So Jesus was born with the sin of Adam from Mary?The Word became flesh that was sin as you and I? Which is why He had to be Baptized “born again”. So the Son of God (actualy born of God) was in a fleshly sinfull body and had to repent of sin and be Baptized?
Scripture says that He was TEMPTED AS YOU AND I. So was He born under sin Or just tempted after His baptism?
I believe He was tempted more than you and I Satan came after Him with everything he had.
Was He tempted before He was baptized?
Hi kenrch,
He was an ordinary but pious child and man.
Does anyone get an easy ride?Hi Ken,
Was He tempted before He was baptized?
**************************Well, this is just a theory because we are not told much of Jesus' life as a child.
We are told he had to learn right from wrong…..so we can draw our own ideas from that.Also, in Isaiah somewhere it talks about God holding the right hand of the Servant and “keeping his ways straight” – so again, we can also have various ideas about that possibility (that God was able to “keep” Jesus from sinning).
Of course, my ideas have never been documented in Popular Theology Today – but I believe that Jesus had a sinful nature. There. I said it. I believe that Jesus was born of the flesh (come in the flesh), and some translations translate “sin” as “human nature – flesh,” so I believe that when Jesus participated in the baptism of John, it wasn't just as an “example” of what Christians should do. He actually needed that baptism like we do. I believe that after his baptism, he was re-born and remained sinless (however tempted to sin until he gave up his spirit at the cross).
I know some will say what I have written is blasphemy, however; Jesus was flesh. Human nature is bound to sin. What? Are we to discount the flesh body now, too? I don't know…..
Isaiah wrote:
A representative of what though?….
****************************************His Father.
Remember the story in the gospels about the Father who sent his son to see about the rent (or the harvest) that was being robbed of him? He sent a couple servants to see about it for him, and they were killed. Then he sent his son, and they killed him too. These that he sent were representatives. And I believe this story says much of our Father. As he sent many prophets and they were killed, finally he sent his Son, and they killed him too. The point is though, that Jesus is God's representative.
My parents have a foundations. A lot of times, I am required to give speeches, and address commitees in my Mother's stead. I am her representative. Literally, I AM HER – IN THE FLESH. I am her daughter. I even look like her (lucky me).
I say exactly what she wants me to say. In fact, she writes my speeches!Jesus is God's exact representative. As a “representative” you are not the same person you are representing. Otherwise, what would be the point of a representative. Does this make sense?
Quote (Not3in1 @ April 18 2007,07:46) Hi Ken,
Was He tempted before He was baptized?
**************************Well, this is just a theory because we are not told much of Jesus' life as a child.
We are told he had to learn right from wrong…..so we can draw our own ideas from that.Also, in Isaiah somewhere it talks about God holding the right hand of the Servant and “keeping his ways straight” – so again, we can also have various ideas about that possibility (that God was able to “keep” Jesus from sinning).
Of course, my ideas have never been documented in Popular Theology Today – but I believe that Jesus had a sinful nature. There. I said it. I believe that Jesus was born of the flesh (come in the flesh), and some translations translate “sin” as “human nature – flesh,” so I believe that when Jesus participated in the baptism of John, it wasn't just as an “example” of what Christians should do. He actually needed that baptism like we do. I believe that after his baptism, he was re-born and remained sinless (however tempted to sin until he gave up his spirit at the cross).
I know some will say what I have written is blasphemy, however; Jesus was flesh. Human nature is bound to sin. What? Are we to discount the flesh body now, too? I don't know…..
Hi Not3in1:Jesus was born into the world an infant without sin just as we also as infants were without sin since by definition “sin is the transgression of the law”. (1 Jo 3:4)
I have given my undestanding in another thread. I believe that it was titled “were we born in sin” or something on this order.
Relative to Jesus, I thought I'd paste the following scripture:
2 Co. 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.God Bless
Quote (942767 @ April 18 2007,10:30) Quote (Not3in1 @ April 18 2007,07:46) Hi Ken,
Was He tempted before He was baptized?
**************************Well, this is just a theory because we are not told much of Jesus' life as a child.
We are told he had to learn right from wrong…..so we can draw our own ideas from that.Also, in Isaiah somewhere it talks about God holding the right hand of the Servant and “keeping his ways straight” – so again, we can also have various ideas about that possibility (that God was able to “keep” Jesus from sinning).
Of course, my ideas have never been documented in Popular Theology Today – but I believe that Jesus had a sinful nature. There. I said it. I believe that Jesus was born of the flesh (come in the flesh), and some translations translate “sin” as “human nature – flesh,” so I believe that when Jesus participated in the baptism of John, it wasn't just as an “example” of what Christians should do. He actually needed that baptism like we do. I believe that after his baptism, he was re-born and remained sinless (however tempted to sin until he gave up his spirit at the cross).
I know some will say what I have written is blasphemy, however; Jesus was flesh. Human nature is bound to sin. What? Are we to discount the flesh body now, too? I don't know…..
Hi Not3in1:Jesus was born into the world an infant without sin just as we also as infants were without sin since by definition “sin is the transgression of the law”. (1 Jo 3:4)
I have given my undestanding in another thread. I believe that it was titled “were we born in sin” or something on this order.
Relative to Jesus, I thought I'd paste the following scripture:
2 Co. 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.God Bless
Thanks everyone for the replies.94 I was doing fine till you had to go quote scripture.
2Co 5:21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Jesus knew no sin! I believe that But why was he baptized and then recieved the Holy Spirit. Did the Holy Spirit leave Him then return after He was baptized?
So was He tempted before He was baptized. As you point out scripture says HE KNEW NO SIN. Was He the Son of God before He was Baptized? It would seem so being born of the Holy Spirit.
AHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhh?
?!!!Quote (kenrch @ April 18 2007,12:26) Quote (942767 @ April 18 2007,10:30) Quote (Not3in1 @ April 18 2007,07:46) Hi Ken,
Was He tempted before He was baptized?
**************************Well, this is just a theory because we are not told much of Jesus' life as a child.
We are told he had to learn right from wrong…..so we can draw our own ideas from that.Also, in Isaiah somewhere it talks about God holding the right hand of the Servant and “keeping his ways straight” – so again, we can also have various ideas about that possibility (that God was able to “keep” Jesus from sinning).
Of course, my ideas have never been documented in Popular Theology Today – but I believe that Jesus had a sinful nature. There. I said it. I believe that Jesus was born of the flesh (come in the flesh), and some translations translate “sin” as “human nature – flesh,” so I believe that when Jesus participated in the baptism of John, it wasn't just as an “example” of what Christians should do. He actually needed that baptism like we do. I believe that after his baptism, he was re-born and remained sinless (however tempted to sin until he gave up his spirit at the cross).
I know some will say what I have written is blasphemy, however; Jesus was flesh. Human nature is bound to sin. What? Are we to discount the flesh body now, too? I don't know…..
Hi Not3in1:Jesus was born into the world an infant without sin just as we also as infants were without sin since by definition “sin is the transgression of the law”. (1 Jo 3:4)
I have given my undestanding in another thread. I believe that it was titled “were we born in sin” or something on this order.
Relative to Jesus, I thought I'd paste the following scripture:
2 Co. 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.God Bless
Thanks everyone for the replies.94 I was doing fine till you had to go quote scripture.
2Co 5:21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Jesus knew no sin! I believe that But why was he baptized and then recieved the Holy Spirit. Did the Holy Spirit leave Him then return after He was baptized?
So was He tempted before He was baptized. As you point out scripture says HE KNEW NO SIN. Was He the Son of God before He was Baptized? It would seem so being born of the Holy Spirit.
AHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhh??!!!
Hi Brother Ken:Jesus was born of a woman made under the law. Jesus was raised by parents who were under the Law of Moses. He did not have the Holy Spirit, that is the Spirit of God the Father, at that time. He was a Son of God under the Law of Moses.
The gospel of Luke gives us a glimpse of Jesus who at the age of 12 was studying the Word of God, and the scripture states: “And Jesus increased in stature, and in favour with God and man”. When his parents who had missed him found him his explanation to them is that “he must be about his Father's business”, and so, he was preparing for the ministry.
At that time he did not gave the Holy Ghost, God was not speaking to humanity through him, but at the age of 30 when he was baptized, God confirmed him to be his Son and anointed him for the ministry. Luke 3:22 states: “And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased. Jesus was without sin under the Law of Moses and was saved by virture of that, but now in his ministry God's Christ and Apostle which means that he was sent by God into the world and that God would speak to humanity through him. He gave his life so that the sins of all of God's children could be forgiven.
Isaiah 61:1
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted *, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;Galatians 4:4
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
4:5
To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.Hebrews 5:7
Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and * * supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
5:8
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;John 17:16
They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17:17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
17:19
And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.Romans 1:3
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
1:4
And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:He was dead. He had commended his spirit to God when he died. To be dead means that he was separated from God when he died, and so the Spirit of God left him also at that time. He was dead, but he was born again at this time as Romans 1:4 states.
Brother Ken, I don't know if I answered your questions, but if not, please ask and I'll be glad to give you my understanding.
God Bless
Quote (kenrch @ April 18 2007,12:26) Quote (942767 @ April 18 2007,10:30) Quote (Not3in1 @ April 18 2007,07:46) Hi Ken,
Was He tempted before He was baptized?
**************************Well, this is just a theory because we are not told much of Jesus' life as a child.
We are told he had to learn right from wrong…..so we can draw our own ideas from that.Also, in Isaiah somewhere it talks about God holding the right hand of the Servant and “keeping his ways straight” – so again, we can also have various ideas about that possibility (that God was able to “keep” Jesus from sinning).
Of course, my ideas have never been documented in Popular Theology Today – but I believe that Jesus had a sinful nature. There. I said it. I believe that Jesus was born of the flesh (come in the flesh), and some translations translate “sin” as “human nature – flesh,” so I believe that when Jesus participated in the baptism of John, it wasn't just as an “example” of what Christians should do. He actually needed that baptism like we do. I believe that after his baptism, he was re-born and remained sinless (however tempted to sin until he gave up his spirit at the cross).
I know some will say what I have written is blasphemy, however; Jesus was flesh. Human nature is bound to sin. What? Are we to discount the flesh body now, too? I don't know…..
Hi Not3in1:Jesus was born into the world an infant without sin just as we also as infants were without sin since by definition “sin is the transgression of the law”. (1 Jo 3:4)
I have given my undestanding in another thread. I believe that it was titled “were we born in sin” or something on this order.
Relative to Jesus, I thought I'd paste the following scripture:
2 Co. 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.God Bless
Thanks everyone for the replies.94 I was doing fine till you had to go quote scripture.
2Co 5:21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Jesus knew no sin! I believe that But why was he baptized and then recieved the Holy Spirit. Did the Holy Spirit leave Him then return after He was baptized?
So was He tempted before He was baptized. As you point out scripture says HE KNEW NO SIN. Was He the Son of God before He was Baptized? It would seem so being born of the Holy Spirit.
AHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhh??!!!
Hi Kenrch,
Christ was like us and we do not enjoy the Holy Spirit Life from our natural birth but from our rebirth, just as Jesus became truly alive in the Spirit anointing.
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