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Quote Hi W,
Why do you dare to go beyond revelation in your speculations about God? Fear Him.NH
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom!
Wisdom clearly shows he Father, Son and Holy Spirit are ONE!
Hi W,
But it is not taught in scripture.
You should limit what you teach to what can be KNOWN
The Word is Truth.Hi WJ and CB:
Please give me your interpretation of the following scriptures:
“God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Magesty on high;”. (Hebrews 1-3)
“All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matt. 28:18-20)
“But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwells in you.” (Romans 8:11)
“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together”. (Romans 8:16-17)
Thanks
Hi WJ and CB:
Please give me your interpretation of the following scriptures:
“God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Magesty on high;”. (Hebrews 1-3)
“All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matt. 28:18-20)
“But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwells in you.” (Romans 8:11)
“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together”. (Romans 8:16-17)
Thanks
94
The scriptures speak for themselves. Why dont you tell us of some new revelation that you have and we will see if we agree!
Hi W,
Are we looking for NEW Revelations?
Should we not first establish the KNOWN TRUTHS.
God is ONE
God has a SON
God poured of His OWN Spirit into his Son.To WorshippingJesus.
You labour in vain.
You cannot stop the truth.
The truth is light and light shines through darkness and ignorance.
The truth overcomes your teaching.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 06 2007,20:29) Mercy I would rather believe the writers of the scriptures who walked with Jesus and talked with him.
Are you sure WorshippingJesus?John tells us the reason for his gospel and it isn't the Trinity.
John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “Also:
1 John 1:1-2
“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.So when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.
So if you say that you believe John (who was there) then believe what he wrote.
Otherwise you are not being true.
WorshippingJesus,Jan. wrote:Hi WJ and CB:
Please give me your interpretation of the following scriptures:
“God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Magesty on high;”. (Hebrews 1-3)
“All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matt. 28:18-20)
“But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwells in you.” (Romans 8:11)
“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together”. (Romans 8:16-17)
Thanks
Quote 94
The scriptures speak for themselves. Why dont you tell us of some new revelation that you have and we will see if we agree!
No WJ:I know what I believe that these scriptures say, but I would like to hear what you believe that the say. I heard you say that you believe that my teaching is false so please teach me what this means to you so that I can learn from you what is the truth.
As I stated before, I don't want to teach any thing that is not true, and so, if you have the answers that will correct me, I want to be corrected.
Thank you and God Bless You
Quote 1 John 1:1-2
“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.So when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.
So if you say that you believe John (who was there) then believe what he wrote.
Otherwise you are not being true.
t8
Explain.
Are you saying that “The Word that was with God and was God is the
Father himself?
There has on this forum been much confusion between Christ’s mission or “office” as Messiah and that of His substance which is The Eternal God.
When Christ was to leave heaven and was to take the form of a man He did not cease to be God. He simply put aside His own divine power and was dependent on God for power. This makes Him our example to follow because we too are to depend totally on God.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
He had to overcome Satan while living as a man. Christ did not come to earth to show what a God can do, but what man can do when he depends on God for power. He succeeded where Adam failed.
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
A human body was fashioned for Christ. A body which had sinful propensities just like ours. A body less than what Adam had, weakened by the curse of sin.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Christ condemned sin in the flesh. He resisted sin. Don’t forget that He laid aside His divine power and did not use it for His own benefit, overcoming temptation relying on God for power. We too can resist temptation if we rely on God for power. Christ was our example.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.Luk 4:2 (Jesus) Being forty days tempted of the devil.
Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.Who was being tempted here? Jesus; The Lord thy God.
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
There are many instances in the scripture where Jesus calls the Father..His God and says the Father is greater than I. I always thought this was in reference to Jesus being a Man on earth. But you also have accounts of Jesus calling the Father His God after the resurection. He calls the Father His God when speaking to Mary and again in Revelations. (Rev 3:12) Why is Jesus still calling the Father His God? There is also a passage that says the head of Jesus is God. (1 Cor 11:3)
In many of these instances Jesus was encumbered with humanity or within the context of Him being the Messiah. Don’t forget that Christ is still ministering for us right now as our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary. So His mission is not yet over.
Even within the Godhead each Divine Person recognise and have reverence for the other as God.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
The words “O God” is a worshipful phrase.
In John 5:26 Jesus says:
26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,This is also in the context of Christ mission as Messiah. Within the Godhead a plan was made for the salvation of man. It is evident that each divine Person within the Godhead takes on a different office or role. It is a pity that we too cannot learn to work together and to serve each other.
John 6:58 says:
As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me.This also is in the context of Christ’s mission as Messiah. I have already covered this.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him (Jesus), My Lord and my God.
Hi CB,
IT was not Christ who was tempted in this verse but the Father was to be challenged to prove the truth of His Word if Jesus had agreed to leap off the temple roof. Such is evil.Jesus, God in the flesh!
Heb 10:
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
The above scriptures was the fulfillment of the prophesied coming of the Messiah, Jesus written about in Pss 47:7
Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me,
Most expected the Messiah to be born as any other man, but as the above shows Jesus pre-existed his coming in the flesh, taking on a human body which God the Father had prepared for him.A key to understanding Jesus coming as the Messiah is “the offering of his body”, “a body hast thou prepared me:” vrs 5
So if Jesus pre-existed his natural birth, who was he and what was he?
So we look at Heb 1.
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
While these scriptures do not show the pre-existance of Jesus as God, for they are refering to Jesus post ressurection, nevertheless the Father declares Jesus as God, in agreement with Jn 1:1.
Jn 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.These scriptures agree with Hebrews. Look at the wording.
Jn 1:14
We beheld his Glory as of the only begotten of the Father!
Heb 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person…Jn 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Heb 1:10
Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:Jn 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Heb 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
They also agree with Johns 1st Epistle.
1 Jn 1:
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
Jesus was/is the Word/Eternal Life who was in the form of God according to Phil 2 thought it not robbery to be equal with God(for he was with God and was God), he humbled himself leaving all of his glory, power and authority that he shared with God, and took on human form and in doing so took on the form of a servant, and humbled himself depending totally on his Fathers will and power, even to the death of the cross.The true picture of a Shephard leaving all to save the one.
The true example of perfect Love, one who gives all and lays down his life for his friends.
Jn 10:15
As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.Jn 6:38
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Jesus completed his task here by preaching and teaching the Kingdom of God and offering Eternal life to as many as would believe him.He completely and total fullfilled His Fathers will by submitting to the Father even to the death of the cross.
After which he rose from the dead and ascended back to the Father from where he came to be once again glorified with the glory he shared with the Father before the world was.
And this same Jesus has now been given all power and authority and a name which is above ALL NAMES, not only in this world but in that which is to come, for it pleased the father that all the fullness of the Godhead dwell in Jesus Bodily.
And so he has sit down at the right hand of God, not below him, nor above him, but at his right hand of Power and has recieved the Glory that he had with the Father as God.
And he Jesus King of Kings and Lord of Lords will crack the eastern sky and will appear in ALL the Glory of his Father with the Holy Angels taking vengeance on them that know not GOD.
Jer 10:10
But the LORD [is] the true God, he [is] the living God, and an **everlasting king**, at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.
Jesus comes this time with a sword!
Isa 40:3
The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for **our God**.Matt 3
2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.Quote Hi W,
Indeed Christ was indwelled by God.
But he was not the God who indwelled him.NH
Then to you the Word was not God.
Hi W,
The Son of God is of divine origins as the image of God himself.
But he is not God Himself, who is his Father and his God.
Neither is he still a part of the God who begat him but they are united as ONE in the Eternal Spirit.
You should become one with them too in the same Spirit and you would be able to see the kingdom and would not need to promote the follies of men any more.Quote Hi W,
The Son of God is of divine origins as the image of God himself.
But he is not God Himself, who is his Father and his God.
Neither is he still a part of the God who begat him but they are united as ONE in the Eternal Spirit.
You should become one with them too in the same Spirit and you would be able to see the kingdom and would not need to promote the follies of men any more.NH
Why have you passed judgment on my salvation?
Is it your perfect doctrine that will save me?
Does a mans eternal destiny depend on how perfect his doctrine is?
Matt 7:1
Judge not, that ye be not judged.Like 6:37
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:Jn 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.I Cor 4
3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.Hi W,
I would love to see come out of your mouth the pure words of God and know you are safe but instead you preach the traditional derivations of men. Why?Quote Hi W,
I would love to see come out of your mouth the pure words of God and know you are safe but instead you preach the traditional derivations of men. Why?NH
And what makes your truth so right?
How do you know your truth is not from the dirivations of men?
I show and quote scripture. All you do is say Im wrong but give me no explanation as to why what I say is wrong!
Your accusations adds no validity to your belief. Why not defend your faith with the scriptures?
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