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Adam……No it was not talking about the time it was revealed to John, again four the fourth time John was transported in Spirit to the day of the Lord, at the time the LORD Almighty GOD, WILL RETURN.
YOU SIMPLY CAN NOT ‘understand ‘ what Rev 17 and Daniel 2 , Are saying, by following the rest of all the false Prophets and false teachers . If you don’t understand “the key” given to us in Rev 17, correctly , you or anyone else can never understand it . You must understand that the “one” that “IS” , is speaking of the “Sixth” Kingdom of Jesus Christ and the Saint’s, which is the SIXTH KINGDOM that will arise upon this earth, which starts with The first resurrection and the return of Jesus Christ.
All the false prophets and teachers as you and others have come to believe are wrong they, “Can not put it together “right’’, no matter how you all try, without understanding John was speaking from the period of time at the end of the SIXTH kingdom rule of Jesus and the Saint’s.
OUNCE you really do come to see that, everything else will fall into place, PERFECT PLACE. Adam learn to rely on the “Spirit of Truth”, not the Spirit of deceived men of this world, what does scripture say, ‘brethren you have “NO” need of a teacher , for the SPIRIT, “ITSELF” , Will teach you ” ALL THINGS”.
ADAM YOUR Fowling “BLIND GUIDES” brother. IMO, go back to following the SPIRIT, and it will convince you of what I am telling you, is right.peace and love to you and yours……….gene
The book of Revelation had copied the genre and images from the book of Daniel.
Opinions are a dime a dozen.
But the inner themes of Daniel are completely different from Revelation. The Four Kingdoms of the great Statue of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream and the Four Kingdoms of the four beasts of Dan 7 were no where in the vicinity of the book of Revelation. We should see the historical background for those texts and interpret them to their timeline.
The book of Daniel is talking about Four Kingdoms before God establishes his Kingdom with his holy ones whereas the book of Revelation is talking about a single beast who would be a king. Revelation 17 certainly talking about seven kings and not any Kingdoms as often misquoted by Gene, you and other Christians. The kingdom of Rome was no where in the vicinity of Danielic visions. But it was a major theme of the book of Revelation and the Woman of Rev 17 was the city of Rome which was built on seven hills.
There are a lot of holes in your commentary. The 4 arguably 5 kingdoms of Daniel match Revelation. But before I explain, I am not really trying to talk you into anything. I write for the benefit of readers who come here looking for truth. These people can rightly divide the word of God and can see things when they are not right. You are merely providing an opposing view which helps the debate.
Let’s take a look at all seven gentile kingdoms that ruled the biblical world in succession. Note: this is history (not opinion) and it happens to perfectly match the revelation given to John. The seven are:
Egypt – 3100 to 677 BC (Genesis 12:10)
Assyria – 677 to 626 BC (Genesis 2:14)
Babylon – 626 – 539 BC (Daniel 1:1)
Medo-Persia – 539 – 449 BC (Daniel 5:28)
Greecia – 449 – 146 BC (Daniel 10:20)
Rome – 146 BC-476 AD eastern leg / 1453 AD western leg or Byzantium (Daniel 9:26 & Romans 1-7)
Ottoman – 1453 – 1924 AD (Future empire when Revelation was written, but historical empire today)One will notice that this Beast is no more.
“And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.”
So if this interpretation is correct, we are awaiting the eighth king which came from the seventh. That could be another Islamic Caliphate especially considering teh seventh in this interpretation was an Islamic caliphate and also given the spread of Islam which dominates this part of the world (around the Great Sea) and has recently infiltrated Western Europe. (Forget America, China, India, Australia, etc. These are not located around the Great Sea.)
Revelation 17:8
The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction.,Revelation 17:11:
The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.Daniel 7:1-3
In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon, Daniel had a dream, and visions passed through his mind as he was lying in bed. He wrote down the substance of his dream. Daniel said: “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me were the four winds of heaven churning up the great sea. Four great beasts, each different from the others, came up out of the sea.Revelation 13:1
“And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.”It is also possible that the eighth king to come could be from the seven (not seventh) which means it is comprised of all empires that came out if the Great Sea.
At this point it is good to note that the word for ‘clay’ in Aramaic is ‘arab’ and one of the characteristics of the Beast is the iron mixed with clay just below the two legs of iron (Roman Empire). In other words it appears that two peoples will live side by side but will not mingle. And indeed we see this with the break up of the Roman Empire and the Ottoman invasions. So the iron mixed with clay.
You saw the iron mixed with clay–the peoples will mix with one another but will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with fired clay.
Of the seven empires above, Daniel was addressing five of these. His revelation was focussed around his time with the past and future not fully expressed.
But as time moves, so does God’s plan and revelation. Knowledge shall increase. Science is the word for knowledge, thus revelation as well as knowledge gained from testing and experimentation all comprise science. Even your own conscience has knowledge and is thus science. Con = with + Science = knowledge = Conscience.
Sir Isaac Newton, the Father of the modern scientific method was a great man of God also. He actually studied the Bible more than he did physics and the natural world. He brought much knowledge to the world of science and for him, knowledge was to be gained using revelation from God, experimentation, observation, mathematics, etc.
Proclaimer, there only different, if you don’t understand them, rightly. Other wise they fit ” perfectly”.
you need the key , even to begin to understand revelations and that key I have I’ve you all. It’s in Rev 17.
peace and love to you and yours……….gene
There are a lot of holes in your commentary. The 4 arguably 5 kingdoms of Daniel match Revelation. But before I explain, I am not really trying to talk you into anything. I write for the benefit of readers who come here looking for truth. These people can rightly divide the word of God and can see things when they are not right. You are merely providing an opposing view which helps the debate.
Hi Proclaimer, thanks for your reply to my post. But I ask you where in the book of Daniel the word Five (Kingdoms) was written and where in the book of Revelation the word “Seven Kingdoms” was written?
It is not written in a style to keep you happy. It is written to throw off those who are not of the truth.
For those that are truly interested. The King of Babylon was the head of gold. A king represents a kingdom. Babylon in our modern political view was an empire. It had many more kings besides Nebuchadnezzar though. But he was the face of that kingdom at that moment in time.
The Book of Revelation talks of a Beast that has seven heads and 10 horns that arose from the Great Sea. The 10 horns are kings which could be 10 nations that developed after the Roman Empire’s western leg fell. In other words, Europe. The heads on the other hand are empires. But you can believe they are UFOs or anything you want. I believe they are empires.
Five had fallen and one was and one was yet to come. 2000 or so years later, the one that was, has also fallen. That was Rome. It eventually fell to the Ottoman Empire. Now all these successive heads have come to an end. There is no empire in the Middle East anymore meaning the Beast is not / was not. The last empire fell at the end of WWI.
If an empire was to ever rise again in that part of the world to become the eighth, it would almost be certainly be an Islamic Caliphate. In fact that is what ISIS was trying to achieve as the Quran encourages this.
Now pay attention if you have eyes to see. The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction. What is the seven again? The heads. So the king belongs to the heads as all the kings do. We know that each empire had many kings. Kings rule kingdoms. When they die, a new king often takes his place and it is considered the same kingdom or empire. This is true for Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and the Ottoman empire.
you need the key , even to begin to understand revelations and that key I have I’ve you all. It’s in Rev 17.
I do not want your key gene. It doesn’t open the lock. In your mind you think it does.
I believe they are empires. Five had fallen and one was and one was yet to come. 200 or so years later. the one that was, has also fallen. That is Rome.
Hi Proclaimer, You can believe anything and every thing. But you should quote the texts of the book you are interpreting. I can’t find what you are quoting here for the support of your Seven Empires in Revelation. Please read Rev 17:
9 “This calls for a mind that has wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; also, they are seven kings, 10 of whom five have fallen, one is living, and the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain only a little while. 11 As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction. 12 And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast. 13 These are united in yielding their power and authority to the beast; 14 they will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful.”
I think the above will clear your misconceptions on the book of Revelation.
“This calls for a mind that has wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; also, they are seven kings,
Exactly what I just said. Kings represent kingdoms. They are representative of their kingdom. Jesus is a king too. When you address a king, you are addressing the kingdom. When you want to engage with a kingdom, you do so through a king or a representative of the king. A king by definition is a ruler. What is he ruling?
The King of Babylon was the head of gold. How many other kings were there in Babylon? Look it up on Wikipedia. Are you saying that the golden head of the statue had nothing to do with Babylon?
If you really feel the need to choose one king per kingdom, then that doesn’t change how many kingdoms there are.
If Nebuchadnezzar is the head of gold and he ruled Babylon as did many other kings, then do the same for the other empires. That still leaves seven empires. Unless you want to take the view that the other metals in the statue are 6 more kings after Nebuchadnezzar but within Babylon only. You can do that if you want. I just think you will be all alone with that view.
The King of Babylon was the head of gold. How many other kings were there in Babylon? Look it up on Wikipedia. Are you saying that the golden head of the statue had nothing to do with Babylon?
That is the reason why I stated that Danielic visions are different from those of Revelation. You are confusing Danielic Kingdoms with Revelation’s Kings. Please read the verses Rev 17:9-14 carefully. It is crystal clear that John was talking about Kings of the present Empire of his time as one of the seven kings namely the sixth one was ruling at that time.
The ten kings also would be given authority and rule along with the beast the Eighth king. They all would make war with the Lamb.
What else you need to understand this simple logic?
Only if your view is that the head of god had nothing to do with Babylon at all and was simply about Nebuchadnezzar only. I would understand your view but still wouldn’t agree with it.
So is this how you view it. That the golden head of the statue had nothing to do with Babylon the empire?
it’s not about a vaccine the is proven to knock out cove-19
Gene, “proven to knock out covid 19”? If anything it is making covid WORSE, particularly the Delta variant. Israel was a test country with Pfizer, one of the highest rates of vaccination in the world, and just look at what is happening there. More vaccinated are dyeing of Covid than the unvaccinated. The vaccine destroys blood cells and natural immunity to new mutations. But it is off topic so I will save it for another thread.
Only if your view is that the head of god had nothing to do with Babylon at all and was simply about Nebuchadnezzar only. I would understand your view but still wouldn’t agree with it.
So is this how you view it. That the golden head of the statue had nothing to do with Babylon the empire?
Sorry you are still in the dilemma of equating Danielic visions with those of Revelation. I never denied the four Kingdoms of Dan 2 and 7 as these chapters talk of Kingdoms.
I am only arguing about the Seven Kings of Rev 17 which you and others interpret as Seven Kingdoms.
I want you to read Rev 17 in its original context, first Century.
Thank you……Adam
Let’s take a look at all seven gentile kingdoms that ruled the biblical world in succession. Note: this is history (not opinion) and it happens to perfectly match the revelation given to John. The seven are:
Egypt – 3100 to 677 BC (Genesis 12:10)
Assyria – 677 to 626 BC (Genesis 2:14)
Babylon – 626 – 539 BC (Daniel 1:1)
Medo-Persia – 539 – 449 BC (Daniel 5:28)
Greecia – 449 – 146 BC (Daniel 10:20)
Rome – 146 BC-476 AD eastern leg / 1453 AD western leg or Byzantium (Daniel 9:26 & Romans 1-7)
Ottoman – 1453 – 1924 AD (Future empire when Revelation was written, but historical empire today)One will notice that this Beast is no more.
Hi Proclaimer, your logics are completely out of synch with both books Daniel and Revelation. Please read the texts in their original context and not according to what suits you.
To All…….Sea is the symbol for “humanity” when it talks about these beasts rising up from the sea, it simply means kingdoms that rise up from humanity.
Where it says there will be no more sea, I believe that means no more humans being born any more. From that time onward.
peace and love to you all and yours……….gene
To All…….Sea is the symbol for “humanity” when it talks about these beasts rising up from the sea, it simply means kingdoms that rise up from humanity.
Where it says there will be no more sea, I believe that means no more humans being born any more. From that time onward.
Hi brother Gene, you are going into too much allegory. At least please leave out Rev 21:1
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
Gadam,
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
This does not mean that there will be no sea in the new world where justice will dwell, that God will create after the thousand years (HEAVEN judgment of the lost)
Let’s take a look at all seven gentile kingdoms that ruled the biblical world in succession. Note: this is history (not opinion) and it happens to perfectly match the revelation given to John. The seven are:
Egypt – 3100 to 677 BC (Genesis 12:10)
Assyria – 677 to 626 BC (Genesis 2:14)
Babylon – 626 – 539 BC (Daniel 1:1)
Medo-Persia – 539 – 449 BC (Daniel 5:28)
Greecia – 449 – 146 BC (Daniel 10:20)
Rome – 146 BC-476 AD eastern leg / 1453 AD western leg or Byzantium (Daniel 9:26 & Romans 1-7)
Ottoman – 1453 – 1924 AD (Future empire when Revelation was written, but historical empire today)One will notice that this Beast is no more.
Proclaimer
We will ALSO notice that Revelation 17 says
The beast that you sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that WAS, AND IS NOT, and YET IS.THIS MEANS THAT THE BETE WILL BE HEALED OF HER WOUND.
Proclaim, The world will be amazed that the beast will reappear, (except the faithful)
And I saw one of his heads as it were WOUNDED TO DEATH; and his deadly wound was HEALED: and ALL THE WORLD WONDERED AFTER THE BEAST. (Rev.13: 3)
Do you think Islam will bring about such a comeback?
I do not believe it, on the other hand, the Papacy is on all the grounds: religious, social, political, economic, environmental, ….The prophecy had said:
…. and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, ….
this is what is happening, Proclaimer, soon all the political and religious leaders will abdicate before the Pope, and he will be crowned leader of the NEW WORLD ORDER BY THE HEADS OF THE UNITED NATIONS.REVELATION 17
And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
[12] And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
[13] These have one mind, and shall GIVE THEUR AND STRENGTH UNTO THE BEAST POWER UNTO THE BEAST.
[14] These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.THE WORLDWIDE WARNING IS THIS
REVELATION 14
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
[10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
[11] And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
[12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.God bless
Proclaim, The world will be amazed that the beast will reappear, (except the faithful)
And I saw one of his heads as it were WOUNDED TO DEATH; and his deadly wound was HEALED: and ALL THE WORLD WONDERED AFTER THE BEAST. (Rev.13: 3)
Do you think Islam will bring about such a comeback?
I do not believe it, on the other hand, the Papacy is on all the grounds: religious, social, political, economic, environmental, ….I think the Vatican and Pope are more likely to be the woman that rides the Beast than being the Beast itself. The woman’s description seems to fit with false religion more so than political power. And the original Babylon was not judged because of her political power and politics, rather her false gods and religion.
So I see the woman being false religion and the beast as political powers.
But yes, I can see both the Pope and Islam as antichrist.
The Pope sits in the place of Christ making him antichrist and Islam denies the Son of God which is also antichrist.
I have my views, but realise that’s all they are. As time progresses and more is revealed, I may shift my views on this subject.
Due to the time we live in, I do not subscribe fully to any eschatological view. I remain open minded on this.
But I leave you with this.
Today or decades to come, what has more chance of ruling the Middle East and Europe?
- The Pope and Vatican
- An Islamic Caliphate.
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