Quantum entanglement could stretch across time

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/01/timelike-entanglement/

Participant

In the weird world of quantum physics, two linked particles can share a single fate, even when they’re miles apart.

Now, two physicists have mathematically described how this spooky effect, called entanglement, could also bind particles across time.

If their proposal can be tested, it could help process information in quantum computers and test physicists’ basic understanding of the universe.

“You can send your quantum state into the future without traversing the middle time,” said quantum physicist S. Jay Olson of Australia’s University of Queensland, lead author of the new study.

In ordinary entanglement, two particles (usually electrons or photons) are so intimately bound that they share one quantum state — spin, momentum and a host of other variables — between them. One particle always “knows” what the other is doing. Make a measurement on one member of an entangled pair, and the other changes immediately.

Physicists have figured out how to use entanglement to encrypt messages in uncrackable codes and build ultrafast computers. Entanglement can also help transmit encyclopedias’ worth of information from one place to another using only a few atoms, a protocol called quantum teleportation.

In a new paper posted on the physics preprint website arXiv.org, Olson and Queensland colleague Timothy Ralph perform the math to show how these same tricks can send quantum messages not only from place to place, but from the past to the future.

The equations involved defy simple mathematical explanation, but are intuitive: If it’s impossible to describe one particle without including the other, this logically extends to time as well as space.

“If you use our timelike entanglement, you find that [a quantum message] moves in time, while skipping over the intermediate points,” Olson said. “There really is no difference mathematically. Whatever you can do with ordinary entanglement, you should be able to do with timelike entanglement.”

January 28, 2011 at 1:44 pm#234625

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/01/timelike-entanglement/

Participant

Quote (t8 @ Jan. 27 2011,07:43)

In the weird world of quantum physics, two linked particles can share a single fate, even when they’re miles apart.

Now, two physicists have mathematically described how this spooky effect, called entanglement, could also bind particles across time.

If their proposal can be tested, it could help process information in quantum computers and test physicists’ basic understanding of the universe.

“You can send your quantum state into the future without traversing the middle time,” said quantum physicist S. Jay Olson of Australia’s University of Queensland, lead author of the new study.

Greetings T8…..Isn't it amazing how quantum physics evolved…This process started with the acception of one theory which has its roots in mathmatics and that is allowing the unknown to ocupy a place in an equation that would normally result in a completely different conclusion….This unknown factor is of course a THEORY that brought about a tremendous amount of new theory and is fuel for speculation…science is beginning to consume itself..

January 28, 2011 at 9:52 pm#234673

Participant

Richard Feynman described the problems he had in getting the mathematical models he developed to produce testable predictions. Looks like that's the stage this is up to also.

I assume they've considered whether a particle can entangle with its future self. Does that constitute two particles?

Stuart

January 30, 2011 at 7:31 am#234786

Participant

Good question.

Is a future you still you?
What constitutes you?
If you is also the future you, then can we say the same thing about a particle?
Or are we different because we have a soul?

January 30, 2011 at 11:06 am#234793

Participant

What is a soul?

Stuart

January 30, 2011 at 1:10 pm#234794

Participant

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 30 2011,21:06)

What is a soul?

Stuart

STU…. a nephish….the essense that constitutes us,you might call it the human spirit….the part of us that ceases to exist at death,however is not destroyed just reconciled to its creator…a data disc. sort of..containing all that you are..

January 31, 2011 at 7:49 am#234878

Participant

Quote (theodorej @ Jan. 30 2011,23:10)

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 30 2011,21:06)

What is a soul?

Stuart

The religious are good at naming things as if the name makes the concept into something real.

Blood is “nephish” I understand. That is real. Is there a list of real things that are the soul, or is it really just a religious fantasy concept?

Stuart

January 31, 2011 at 3:24 pm#234902

Participant

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 31 2011,17:49)

Quote (theodorej @ Jan. 30 2011,23:10)

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 30 2011,21:06)

What is a soul?

Stuart

The religious are good at naming things as if the name makes the concept into something real.

Blood is “nephish” I understand. That is real. Is there a list of real things that are the soul, or is it really just a religious fantasy concept?

Stuart

Stu…. The spirit that is the essence of all of us has nothing to do with religion….The spirit that was Hitler was certainly not one of religion…While the spirit that was Mother Teresa could be equated to religion but in reality it was the person she was…

February 1, 2011 at 4:25 am#234999

Participant

Quote (theodorej @ Feb. 01 2011,01:24)

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 31 2011,17:49)

Quote (theodorej @ Jan. 30 2011,23:10)

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 30 2011,21:06)

What is a soul?

Stuart

The religious are good at naming things as if the name makes the concept into something real.

Blood is “nephish” I understand. That is real. Is there a list of real things that are the soul, or is it really just a religious fantasy concept?

Stuart

Sorry theodorej, but you have just changed to describing a different fantasy word. I am no closer to understanding what you mean because you haven't explained what a spirit is either. Or what you mean by “essence”. I think you could mean anything by them, and therefore you mean nothing in particular.

As an aside, you appear to be saying that “Mother Theresa” had an overall positive influence on the world. I beg to differ.

Stuart

February 1, 2011 at 3:14 pm#235022

WhatIsTrue

Participant

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 01 2011,09:25)

As an aside, you appear to be saying that “Mother Theresa” had an overall positive influence on the world. I beg to differ.

Do tell.

February 1, 2011 at 7:30 pm#235031

Participant

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 01 2011,14:25)

Quote (theodorej @ Feb. 01 2011,01:24)

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 31 2011,17:49)

Quote (theodorej @ Jan. 30 2011,23:10)

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 30 2011,21:06)

What is a soul?

Stuart

The religious are good at naming things as if the name makes the concept into something real.

Blood is “nephish” I understand. That is real. Is there a list of real things that are the soul, or is it really just a religious fantasy concept?

Stuart

As an aside, you appear to be saying that “Mother Theresa” had an overall positive influence on the world. I beg to differ.

Stuart

Greetings Stu….. The essence that makes you/you…The emotions that bring you to cry,the yearning that causes you to seek knowledge,the yearning that causes you to seek love,the displeasure that brings you to anger,the ego that dominates your being….just to name a few of the attributes that is the essence or soul of all of us..These are not physical,however they are an intricate part of what we say and do…If you are aware of your spirit being….Iam curious to hear your description…

February 2, 2011 at 7:02 am#235096

Participant

Quote (theodorej @ Feb. 02 2011,05:30)

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 01 2011,14:25)

Quote (theodorej @ Feb. 01 2011,01:24)

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 31 2011,17:49)

Quote (theodorej @ Jan. 30 2011,23:10)

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 30 2011,21:06)

What is a soul?

Stuart

The religious are good at naming things as if the name makes the concept into something real.

Blood is “nephish” I understand. That is real. Is there a list of real things that are the soul, or is it really just a religious fantasy concept?

Stuart

As an aside, you appear to be saying that “Mother Theresa” had an overall positive influence on the world. I beg to differ.

Stuart

I see, so “spirit” and “soul” are terms for a person's collective emotional responses? That certainly helps me to understand, because these things in turn have explanations with which I have some familiarity, if limited.

Do you cry, or do you seek to love or display anger after you die? I've never seen that or heard about it happening. In what way is a soul a thing that survives your death?

These things are certainly physical; it is well documented that emotional responses can be changed as a result of surgery and use of drugs, medicinal or otherwise.

It would obviously be a mistake to exclude claims of non-physical components out of hand, but equally there is no justification in just claiming it without evidence.

If you have no evidence for anything other than a purely electrochemical cause of emotional response then I'm afraid I will not be believing you just on your assertion. I know of nothing that cannot in principle be explained entirely by the workings of the physical brain.

Do you?

Stuart

February 2, 2011 at 2:18 pm#235108

Participant

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 02 2011,17:02)

Quote (theodorej @ Feb. 02 2011,05:30)

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 01 2011,14:25)

Quote (theodorej @ Feb. 01 2011,01:24)

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 31 2011,17:49)

Quote (theodorej @ Jan. 30 2011,23:10)

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 30 2011,21:06)

What is a soul?

Stuart

The religious are good at naming things as if the name makes the concept into something real.

Blood is “nephish” I understand. That is real. Is there a list of real things that are the soul, or is it really just a religious fantasy concept?

Stuart

As an aside, you appear to be saying that “Mother Theresa” had an overall positive influence on the world. I beg to differ.

Stuart

Do you cry, or do you seek to love or display anger after you die? I've never seen that or heard about it happening. In what way is a soul a thing that survives your death?

These things are certainly physical; it is well documented that emotional responses can be changed as a result of surgery and use of drugs, medicinal or otherwise.

It would obviously be a mistake to exclude claims of non-physical components out of hand, but equally there is no justification in just claiming it without evidence.

Do you?

Stuart

Greetings Stu…. An electrochemical reaction or any other description for a display of emotion be it Joy or anger the origins of the reaction is what constitutes the spirit or soul(nephesh)…I hope that you would prove this to your self and as a true scientist I do not expect you to believe me…

February 2, 2011 at 10:44 pm#235136

Participant

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 31 2011,17:49)

The religious are good at naming things as if the name makes the concept into something real.

Blood is “nephish” I understand. That is real. Is there a list of real things that are the soul, or is it really just a religious fantasy concept?

Stuart

Stu, it might be better to stick to your limited understanding of 3 dimensions and test tube results. You appear unable or not ready to reach a higher understanding, so at least try not to drag others down to your level. I know that might be hard because it there might be an associated feeling of discomfort when others talk about things that you cannot grasp.

February 2, 2011 at 11:10 pm#235142

Participant

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 02 2011,17:02)

Do you cry, or do you seek to love or display anger after you die? I've never seen that or heard about it happening. In what way is a soul a thing that survives your death?

These things are certainly physical; it is well documented that emotional responses can be changed as a result of surgery and use of drugs, medicinal or otherwise.

Hi Stu.

You are sceptical that a thing called the soul (mind) can survive the shut-down of the physical body. To be fair to yourself, you should also be sceptical that it cannot survive. The reason of course is that you do not have a clue either way.

Whereas, others here sway toward survival because of experience or belief of life after death. I guess you could say that there is more proof that there is life after death than there is proof that there isn't.

Type in life after death in Google. You might find some good testimonies from those who have experienced or seen beyond the curtain.

February 3, 2011 at 8:08 am#235197

Participant

Quote (theodorej @ Feb. 03 2011,00:18)

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 02 2011,17:02)

Quote (theodorej @ Feb. 02 2011,05:30)

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 01 2011,14:25)

Quote (theodorej @ Feb. 01 2011,01:24)

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 31 2011,17:49)

Quote (theodorej @ Jan. 30 2011,23:10)

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 30 2011,21:06)

What is a soul?

Stuart

The religious are good at naming things as if the name makes the concept into something real.

Blood is “nephish” I understand. That is real. Is there a list of real things that are the soul, or is it really just a religious fantasy concept?

Stuart

As an aside, you appear to be saying that “Mother Theresa” had an overall positive influence on the world. I beg to differ.

Stuart

Do you cry, or do you seek to love or display anger after you die? I've never seen that or heard about it happening. In what way is a soul a thing that survives your death?

These things are certainly physical; it is well documented that emotional responses can be changed as a result of surgery and use of drugs, medicinal or otherwise.

It would obviously be a mistake to exclude claims of non-physical components out of hand, but equally there is no justification in just claiming it without evidence.

Do you?

Stuart

Not sure I understand you here.

Stuart

February 3, 2011 at 8:17 am#235198

Participant

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 03 2011,09:10)

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 02 2011,17:02)

Do you cry, or do you seek to love or display anger after you die? I've never seen that or heard about it happening. In what way is a soul a thing that survives your death?

These things are certainly physical; it is well documented that emotional responses can be changed as a result of surgery and use of drugs, medicinal or otherwise.

Hi Stu.

Type in life after death in Google. You might find some good testimonies from those who have experienced or seen beyond the curtain.

If you read my previous reply to theodorej you might see that indeed I have shown the skepticism you suggest.

You say that some sway towards survival because of experience of belief. What on earth does that mean? Are you saying there are people with whom you can communicate who are dead and so can tell you that some conscious aspect survived?

What experiences could possibly have any relevance?

The fact is that if a person survives a near-death experience, then they are not actually qualified to comment on what happens after you die, because they have not actually been brain dead.

I guess you could say there is more proof that there is life after death than proof that there isn't. But it would be wrong because the amount of proof is exactly the same for both positions.

Stuart

February 3, 2011 at 1:15 pm#235205

Participant

Greetings Stu….. Your description of the expression of either Joy or anger having its origins in a electrochemical reaction clearly explains the physical aspect scientifically….It is what perpertrates this electrochemical reaction that is the question….since science chooses to leave the equation unsolved,I take the liberty by virtue of my faith to add the quantum factor of the unknown and add the term spirit to the equation..Am I being unscientific by solving the equation this way..

February 3, 2011 at 1:43 pm#235206

Participant

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 03 2011,18:17)

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 03 2011,09:10)

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 02 2011,17:02)

Do you cry, or do you seek to love or display anger after you die? I've never seen that or heard about it happening. In what way is a soul a thing that survives your death?

These things are certainly physical; it is well documented that emotional responses can be changed as a result of surgery and use of drugs, medicinal or otherwise.

Hi Stu.

Type in life after death in Google. You might find some good testimonies from those who have experienced or seen beyond the curtain.

If you read my previous reply to theodorej you might see that indeed I have shown the skepticism you suggest.

What experiences could possibly have any relevance?

The fact is that if a person survives a near-death experience, then they are not actually qualified to comment on what happens after you die, because they have not actually been brain dead.

I guess you could say there is more proof that there is life after death than proof that there isn't. But it would be wrong because the amount of proof is exactly the same for both positions.

Stuart

Greetings Stu…Iam going to have to agree with you regarding the proof of life after death….This time I will assume the role of devils advocate and quote scripture,which I rarely do…Here we go…”for the dead no nothing” ” The Dead sleep” and I know there are many more passages that indicate the dead are just dead,they are not hanging out on a cloud with a harp….Phew! How boring would that be? If there is life after death…then why do we need a resurection..

February 3, 2011 at 11:37 pm#235264