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Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 21 2012,07:26) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 20 2012,16:03) You are thinking of the colour red right now.
I was thinking of the magicians in egypt.wakeup.
Ha ha. But I bet you also thought of the colour red too.Quote You can doubt all you like and that is fine. I know what I saw and so does my friend New research suggests that you don't know what you saw. Every time you replay it in your mind, it changes a little. The memory isn't stored in one spot, as of its a solid thing. It's malleable. Just yesterday I watched a video where a memory psychologist created false memories in a group of people. They also swore they absolutely knew what they think they saw. Their memory's were reshaped though.
I am familiar with this myself. There are a couple of reasons a person doesn't do the same magic trick to the same audience twice. The magic happens in the mind, and mostly after the trick is done. I showed a person a coin trick once. A year later, they asked to see it again. It WASNT nearly as impressive the second time because they had reshaped what actually happened, left out details, embellished the memory.
I am very familiar with people who say: “I know what I saw.” The truth is, believing you saw something in no way means you actually saw it.
Quote Because to believe in the things written in the bible requires faith and a certain understanding of the unseen world. I'm just someone who has spent a lifetime learning how people fake such things. I am often extremely frustrated by people who are so sure of what they think they saw when I in fact know they didn't see what they believe they saw.
Quote You say what you say because your mind is full of doctrine that does not permit such things to happen. Exactly the opposite. I think most magicians are people that as children are searching for magic, anything magical. They go through life trying to prove to themselves that these things are real. One by one, they figure out the secrets. It's sad that for people that love the idea of magic the most, there is no magic. I was the one who when I as seven, was trying to figure out how people moved objects with their mind. I now know all ways of doing this. But the magic is gone and that is sad.
If you are referring to religious doctrine, you are wrong about that too.
Quote
Here is why I think you say what you say. Correct me if you think I am wrong.You say what you say because your mind is full of doctrine that does not permit such things to happen. Because you believe this, you have eyes, but cannot see. This leads your insight, foresight, and hindsight to become saturated with doctrinal filters that become your reality.
Now don't get me wrong, I think it is healthy to question such things after all, people make all kinds of claims for all kinds of reasons, but you have demonstrated to me that you think such things are just plain impossible and it is not that you doubt me that I have a problem with, but that you doubt such things can happen at all. I think that this is one of the dangers of subscribing to any denomination. They dictate to you what is possible and what is not.
I am most like the only person who has a file on the ideomotor effect and ouiji boards. I am most likely the only person here who studied what actually is happening.
If you think it works by spirits, then try blindfolding the people and see how we'll it works.
QUESTION: why does it always not work when the person is blindfolded?
The PEOPLE being blindfolded and it not working in that instance shows that it is the PEOPLE responsible for its “magic”I sort of hate having this discussion with you because I really think you based some of your bible beliefs on it.
I think the way I think because I know.
I have been in the company of people who have seen a magic trick and they are wiling to fight to the death believing it is real, when I know exactly how the effect works, have done the effect myself, and know anyone can buy the effect for $5.00. Yet, they “know” it is done with spirits because how else could it ever be done?
I absolutely know how incredibly easy it is to deceive people especially when they want to believe because I have spent my life studying this, and being disappointed with people for the entire journey.
I don't now why you think this is denomination ally related. It is not.
Do you think that parker brothers iinserts demons into these boards at the plant where they are made? Did parker brothers at some point make a pact with the devil?
Quote Where are you? That is a question you need to ask yourself. As regard this, I am on the side of truth and reality.
T8, you are familiar that psychics often through a lot of things out there and if any of them hit it is miraculous and the rest are forgotten.
Well, with ouiji boards, the same happens. They make millions of these things. Usually nothing happens despite this being a situation where most people want something to happen.
Imagine that right now, you are at home, and the lights go out. Means nothing.
Imagine that there is a large bang outside. Mans nothing
Or that the phone rings right now. Mans nothing.
Or that someone spills a drink to the floor. Means nothing
100 other thingsNow, imagine that you are playing with the board and one of these things happen. Now, it has meaning. Why? Because we want it to.
When PEOPLE ARE BUYING A BOARD TO FREAK THEMSELVES OUT, they tend to freak themselves out, and with millions of these sold, you are doing to hear some stories.
CHALLENGE:
–use the board blindfolded. Ask yourself honestly: why doesn't it work?
–find a magician who has been a magician for more than 15 years and ask him to video tape as you use the board. Watch the results honestly.The other thing people don't consider is the other person. It's always two people and there is good reason for that. People (myself being one of them) like to have fun with other people..practical jokes.
Often that other person knows things that you don't.
Again:
IF ITS SPIRITS, they should be able to guide your hands no matter whether you can see or not. But if its you doing it unconsciously, the blindfold will screw things up.THE LATTER IS CLEARLY. the case.
The way I see it: you went in skeptical but also lacking knowledge. I went in believing and made the mistake of looking at the body of evidence.
There are so many things that just seem impossible to people (because they lack knowledge) but are not.
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 20 2012,23:33) Quote (david @ Nov. 20 2012,12:44) Quote They can also predict something bad will happen, and then make it happen –WAKEUP
WAKEUP, I predict you will read this sentence.
(Is it really a prediction if I say your face is about to hurt and then I punch you?)
David.If a fortune teller tells you that you will have an accident,the spirit could make it happen,maybe a few days or weeks later.
How did that magician get that phone in that bottle?
wakeup.
There are about 45 different versions of this trick. I could go figure it out, but it would take a while. I'd rather ask you this: if this guy can do real magic, why bother with phones in bottles or card tricks?Or, if a person can disappear for example, why is a box needed?
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 20 2012,23:22) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 20 2012,16:04) Actually if you look at the video before it is played, you can clearly see the man is looking for something in the water perhaps to stand on.
It is possible that the whole thing, including the boat and kayaks has been set up.But how would you explain, when his hand went through the glass counter to pick up the bracelet,and how he went through the glass window.
wakeup.
Yes. It was unquestioningly obviously set up. Everything, the kayaks, the boat, the path he would walk, everything.This is actually one of the most impressive water walks I've seen.
It would be insanely remarkable if he walked across the channel. It would make the news.
I sort of didn't watch the whole video. I did see the trick where he magically melts the coin through the table. Genius effect. Uses two coins and a magnet. I've some that one. Cyril takayama was the first to do it and did it so much better.
I'll go back and find the bracelet thing.
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 21 2012,04:24) Quote (david @ Nov. 20 2012,15:55) WAKEUP, one of my hobbies for the past 3 decades has been figuring out how supposedly im possible things are actually done. If there are any specific tricks you want explained, this is your chance to ask someone who probably knows the answers.
David.1.How do you read some ones mind?
2.How do you walk through a shop window with the crowd
watching.3.How do you put your hand through the glass,in view of the camera.
4.How do you make a coin go through the glass.
wakeup.
I have to see the videos to tell you how each is done specifically. As I said, I only saw the coin trick.I will describe the coin trick.
He has a magnet ring. And the coins are the type of metal that work with magnets. I have 2 of these rings. Good for moving things with your mind.
Anyway, his right hand with the ring has the other coin under the glass. But his hand is above the glass flat on the table. The coin sticks to the glass and will follow the hand sliding along bottom of table. He places this hand over the coin on TOP of the table. He then pulls his hand away from table which is now attached to the TOP coin, letting the coin under table fall into her hand.
I feel icky revealing this. It's a good trick. The rings are made out if neodymium, strong magnets. You can buy them fairly cheap. You can use them to stop (break) people's watches with the power of your mind.
david
Quote As regard this, I am on the side of truth and reality. what is truth
and what is reality are perceptions of our surroundings are approx 20 % of what really his there ,
and the truth that we can know about God is also limited to what not only God gives us but to the amount of energy we are willingly to put in to it ,
so we should constantly verify if we are putting all the energy (mind,heart and soul) into Gods truth ,if not that truth will suffer more or less the affect of it ,
so were do you stand David
T8:
My 3 wishes:
1. IS THIS STATEMENT TRUE?: If its the spirits, they should be able to guide your hands no matter whether you can see or not, but if its people doing it unconsciously, the blindfold will screw things up.
2. Why do you think it doesn't work when the people are blindfolded?
3. Have you ever spent any time studying the ideomotor effect, or questioning how ouiji boards work?
Wow lots of post again david.
I will say this and hopefully it answers most of it.
First off, I think that most of this stuff is fake.
But I also believe in a spiritual realm where things do take place and show themselves into our realm. From the unseen to the seen.Second, I am not teaching any doctrine of the dead here. I am relaying an experience, so read into it what you will. e.g., I am not saying that I was actually conversing with my Grandfather. No. Rather it is IMO a spirit that had information about him and was able to communicate through the medium and possibly the ouija board too.
Thirdly, one way a ouija board could work besides someone consciously moving to letters is that a spirit possesses a person and therefore is able to spell out words while the host is unconscious of this activity. I mean spirits throw people around and writhed in the presence of Jesus, so it is not hard to see that spirits live in people and make people do things even while the host is not conscious of that possessing spirit.
Finally, some people really do have spiritual experiences. We read about many such things in the bible. “I was taken up into Heaven”, “The Word of the LORD came to..”, or “I beheld this and saw that…”.
But I know that not all accept that people have spirtual experiences because not all are spiritually minded, but many have their minds set on the flesh and physical things only.
1 Corinthians 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.I think the above scripture describes exactly your reaction to my post. The scripture below shows the fruit of spiritual thinking versus carnal thinking.
Romans 8:6
6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace.I might read some of your posts and specifically reply to them if I have time.
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 20 2012,23:33) Quote (david @ Nov. 20 2012,12:44) Quote They can also predict something bad will happen, and then make it happen –WAKEUP
WAKEUP, I predict you will read this sentence.
(Is it really a prediction if I say your face is about to hurt and then I punch you?)
David.If a fortune teller tells you that you will have an accident,the spirit could make it happen,maybe a few days or weeks later.
How did that magician get that phone in that bottle?
wakeup.
At 16 min mark, on the one video he puts a persons phone in a bottle.I very much like this method. Watch the video again. He already had a phone in there. You can very clearly see him pocketing the phone. He throws it into his jacket. There are special pockets used for this that can catch the phone. The rest is just acting. Those phones are common. You just have to approach someone with that phone. Can't remember if he asked someone for a bottle. He probably did. They were a shill.
You have to understand that we only see what the camera shows us. After the camera is turned off, he is probably just handed his phone back and the magician asks for his bottle and phone back.
Watch the video. He clearly pockets the guys phone.
Quote (david @ Nov. 21 2012,05:29) Terrarica,
Truth is things that are true. Reality is not deceiving ourselves.
T8IS TRUTH and reality NOT DEPENDING on each other ???i think so ,
in all our understanding that we acquired in this world about all things ,if we have pickup errors then we would not have truth do we
and so our reality would also be defaulting and so would make us go astray and so be deceived.
Quote First off, I think that most of this stuff is fake. Agreed. I have always put it at >99.5%. But in the last few years I am putting it at >99.99% fake.
Quote Thirdly, one way a ouija board could work besides someone consciously moving to letters is that a spirit possesses a person and therefore is able to spell out words while the host is unconscious of this activity Hi t8
I put my 3 questions that I was allowed on this page. They are above.
This thread has been wonderful. Thanks for bringing it up, Guncher.
There are few threads where I read every word of every post, but this is now one of them.t8, I've had TWO similar “sinking into Hades” experiences, one which the wake up tapping was done by my sister. I've also seen the Ouija board at work, spelling out things I didn't even know (how much loose change I had in my pocket – down to the penny – even though I didn't CONSCIOUSLY have any idea.)
But I also see where David is coming from. I believe 99% of “magic” is the result of the many tricks David has graciously outlined for us. But we all know from scripture that our struggle is against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. (Eph 6:12)
If these forces aren't even real, or can't do a single thing to influence our lives, then why is our struggle against them? Of course they are real.
So IMO, at least 1% of these “miracles” or “signs” or “wonders” are real. Some of those are caused by God and His representatives, and others are caused by Satan and his representatives. Remember that God never said sorcery and fortune telling was a scam. He just told us not to be involved with those who do these things. There are apparently certain things our God doesn't want us to know, or be involved in – despite the fact those things are real. (Consider how angry God got at certain angels for showing humans some secrets of the heavenly realms – as recorded in Enoch.)
These are just my humble opinions.
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