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Why does cognitive behavioural therapy work so well?
If these talk therapy's work, to remove the (mental illness / demon) why would we think it is a demon?
Is it just the demon playing along some times?
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 19 2012,21:33) Mike, I do not know enough about Asperger's to say whether the demon comes and causes the situation or instead comes and takes advantage of the inflicted person's weaknesses that are caused by damage previously “inflicted” by a demon.
I guess I'm just wondering why you're attributing the physical effects to ANY currently known affliction at all.If the demon was said to throw the man into convulsions – why should we look for a CURRENT understanding of afflictions known to cause convulsions in people? WHY would we think: Oh, the dude probably had epilepsy. ?
Why can't we just accept that the demon was able to throw the man into convulsions WITHOUT trying to “science it up” with what we know today?
Quote (david @ Dec. 19 2012,23:01) Does everyone here believe that mental illness is actually demon possession?
I believe there's no way for you to know every single cause of every single case of “mental illness”.I believe demons still play an active part in messing with God's creation – namely: man.
Like I've just posted to Kerwin, just because the convulsions CAN BE attributed to epilepsy doesn't mean epilepsy IS what caused them.
Quote (david @ Dec. 21 2012,17:51) Do most here basically agree that what people call mental illness is actually demons torturing the minds of see people?
I think it's clear that all of us, except for you, believe that what is often diagnosed as mental illness CAN BE instead an affliction caused by a demon.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 22 2012,22:09) Quote (david @ Dec. 19 2012,23:01) Does everyone here believe that mental illness is actually demon possession?
I believe there's no way for you to know every single cause of every single case of “mental illness”.I believe demons still play an active part in messing with God's creation – namely: man.
Like I've just posted to Kerwin, just because the convulsions CAN BE attributed to epilepsy doesn't mean epilepsy IS what caused them.
Mike,From reading Scripture I find that it calls a form of demon possession what we diagnose as epilepsy today. Here is a case that sounds like deafness associated with epilepsy. The speech impairment is possibly a result of the demon caused deafness.
Mark 9:17-27
King James Version (KJV)17 And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;
18 And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.
19 He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.
20 And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.
21 And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child.
22 And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.
23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.
26 And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead.
27 But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.I don't know as Scripture ever attributes these things to non-demonic causes. I do know there is at least one case of deafness and speech impairment that does not explicitly state it is demon possession.
Mark 7:32-37
King James Version (KJV)32 And they bring unto him one that was deaf, and had an impediment in his speech; and they beseech him to put his hand upon him.
33 And he took him aside from the multitude, and put his fingers into his ears, and he spit, and touched his tongue;
34 And looking up to heaven, he sighed, and saith unto him, Ephphatha, that is, Be opened.
35 And straightway his ears were opened, and the string of his tongue was loosed, and he spake plain.
36 And he charged them that they should tell no man: but the more he charged them, so much the more a great deal they published it;
37 And were beyond measure astonished, saying, He hath done all things well: he maketh both the deaf to hear, and the dumb to speak.Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 23 2012,12:37) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 22 2012,22:09) Quote (david @ Dec. 19 2012,23:01) Does everyone here believe that mental illness is actually demon possession?
I believe there's no way for you to know every single cause of every single case of “mental illness”.I believe demons still play an active part in messing with God's creation – namely: man.
Like I've just posted to Kerwin, just because the convulsions CAN BE attributed to epilepsy doesn't mean epilepsy IS what caused them.
Mike,From reading Scripture I find that it calls a form of demon possession what we diagnose as epilepsy today. Here is a case that sounds like deafness associated with epilepsy. The speech impairment is possibly a result of the demon caused deafness.
Mark 9:17-27
King James Version (KJV)17 And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;
18 And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.
19 He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.
20 And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.
21 And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child.
22 And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.
23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.
26 And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead.
27 But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.I don't know as Scripture ever attributes these things to non-demonic causes. I do know there is at least one case of deafness and speech impairment that does not explicitly state it is demon possession.
Mark 7:32-37
King James Version (KJV)32 And they bring unto him one that was deaf, and had an impediment in his speech; and they beseech him to put his hand upon him.
33 And he took him aside from the multitude, and put his fingers into his ears, and he spit, and touched his tongue;
34 And looking up to heaven, he sighed, and saith unto him, Ephphatha, that is, Be opened.
35 And straightway his ears were opened, and the string of his tongue was loosed, and he spake plain.
36 And he charged them that they should tell no man: but the more he charged them, so much the more a great deal they published it;
37 And were beyond measure astonished, saying, He hath done all things well: he maketh both the deaf to hear, and the dumb to speak.
Kerwin.Well done,I agree.
Some can not comprehend what a spirit creature really is.
A spirit creature Jesus called the quickened.They can go through walls,and also through the skull and flesh. Once he, or them(the many), is in there he can do as he pleases,up to a piont.Because God is still in control.
Anyone that have the same frequency as them,are liable to be possessed by them. Most dont even know it,for they lay dormant,only occasionally active,and causing harm or death.
wakeup.
wakeup.
Quote (david @ Dec. 22 2012,05:54) Why does cognitive behavioural therapy work so well? If these talk therapy's work, to remove the (mental illness / demon) why would we think it is a demon?
Is it just the demon playing along some times?
David,The negative thinking results when a person takes to heart the words of a demon. When a person resists these words they are resisting the devil and we are told when we do that he runs away. CBT teaches them how to do that in way that is separate from the truth of God.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 22 2012,20:33) Kerwin. Well done,I agree.
You agree with what, Wakeup? That the effects attributed to demons in the NT weren't really caused by demons, like scripture says, but were really caused by known afflictions such as epilepsy?
I'll stick with what the scriptures say. If the scriptures say a DEMON threw the man into convulsions, then I'm not about to “science it up” and start claiming the man really just had epilepsy, and Jesus and the disciples were WRONG to say it was a DEMON causing the effects.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 23 2012,21:47) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 22 2012,20:33) Kerwin. Well done,I agree.
You agree with what, Wakeup? That the effects attributed to demons in the NT weren't really caused by demons, like scripture says, but were really caused by known afflictions such as epilepsy?I'll stick with what the scriptures say. If the scriptures say a DEMON threw the man into convulsions, then I'm not about to “science it up” and start claiming the man really just had epilepsy, and Jesus and the disciples were WRONG to say it was a DEMON causing the effects.
Mike,You have what I am saying backwards.
I am saying that a certain type of demon possession, ownership, is diagnoses as epilepsy by those whose wisdom of this age minimizes or denies the existence of demons.
You acknowledge that the gods of other peoples are demons and so you know the word demons can replace the words “other gods” and “gods” in Judges 10:13-14 and the meaning remain the same.
Judges 10:13-14
King James Version (KJV)13 Yet ye have forsaken me, and served other gods: wherefore I will deliver you no more.
14 Go and cry unto the gods which ye have chosen; let them deliver you in the time of your tribulation.a parallel passage is:
Romans 1:22-25
King James Version (KJV)22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.Demon possession(ownership) still exists but the people of this age call it mental diseases. Some know better.
Well then it seems that you and I agree, Kerwin. It sure didn't sound like that when you first started talking about Asperger's Syndrome. (That's why David used your post about it to t8 – because it seemed like you and David were in agreement that many things SAID TO BE caused by demons are really just natural afflictions.)
That is how I understood your words, and it seems it is how David also understood them.
Anyway, we also agree that the gods of the nations were demons, in many cases, and that therefore, there ARE indeed many gods, in heaven and on earth, just like Paul claimed in 1 Cor 8:5.
Jehovah is not the ONLY god, but He is the only Creator, and the God OF those other gods – including Jesus and Satan.
Are we agreed on that last sentence?
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 24 2012,04:59) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 23 2012,21:47) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 22 2012,20:33) Kerwin. Well done,I agree.
You agree with what, Wakeup? That the effects attributed to demons in the NT weren't really caused by demons, like scripture says, but were really caused by known afflictions such as epilepsy?I'll stick with what the scriptures say. If the scriptures say a DEMON threw the man into convulsions, then I'm not about to “science it up” and start claiming the man really just had epilepsy, and Jesus and the disciples were WRONG to say it was a DEMON causing the effects.
Mike,You have what I am saying backwards.
I am saying that a certain type of demon possession, ownership, is diagnoses as epilepsy by those whose wisdom of this age minimizes or denies the existence of demons.
You acknowledge that the gods of other peoples are demons and so you know the word demons can replace the words “other gods” and “gods” in Judges 10:13-14 and the meaning remain the same.
Judges 10:13-14
King James Version (KJV)13 Yet ye have forsaken me, and served other gods: wherefore I will deliver you no more.
14 Go and cry unto the gods which ye have chosen; let them deliver you in the time of your tribulation.a parallel passage is:
Romans 1:22-25
King James Version (KJV)22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.Demon possession(ownership) still exists but the people of this age call it mental diseases. Some know better.
Hi Kerwin.Allow me to clarify regarding devils and evil spirits.
They are not the same.Devils are the fallen angels,and evil spirits are those creatures that died during the flood.God calls them the bastards in the book of enoch.
When they died;their souls were not accepted in heaven,because they are mixed creatures,so they are roaming on the earth,causing trouble.
The women are called SIRENS,and there are children as well.It is those evil spirits that caused mankind trouble,not the fallen angels.
The fallen angels consider them selves superior to those evil spirits.The Gods of the nations are the fallen angels masquerading as gods. Every nations believes and gods are those fallen angels;they love to be woshipped.
wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 24 2012,23:46) Well then it seems that you and I agree, Kerwin. It sure didn't sound like that when you first started talking about Asperger's Syndrome. (That's why David used your post about it to t8 – because it seemed like you and David were in agreement that many things SAID TO BE caused by demons are really just natural afflictions.) That is how I understood your words, and it seems it is how David also understood them.
Anyway, we also agree that the gods of the nations were demons, in many cases, and that therefore, there ARE indeed many gods, in heaven and on earth, just like Paul claimed in 1 Cor 8:5.
Jehovah is not the ONLY god, but He is the only Creator, and the God OF those other gods – including Jesus and Satan.
Are we agreed on that last sentence?
Mike,God as used in Scripture is an imprecise word as it used to describe the mighty of both heaven and earth.
Never the less both demons and angels are called gods and are worshiped by those either deny or do not know Jehovah.
Neither angels or demons are of the same kind as Jehovah.
Demons and angels are beings who were originally created by God – as are we all.
It seems we agree that they ARE called gods in scripture, proving that Jehovah is not LITERALLY the only “god” in existence.
After all, how could Jehovah possibly be the God of gods if there existed no other gods for Him to be the God of?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 25 2012,23:56) Demons and angels are beings who were originally created by God – as are we all. It seems we agree that they ARE called gods in scripture, proving that Jehovah is not LITERALLY the only “god” in existence.
After all, how could Jehovah possibly be the God of gods if there existed no other gods for Him to be the God of?
Mike,Sounds correct!
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 25 2012,02:18)
Hi Kerwin.Allow me to clarify regarding devils and evil spirits.
They are not the same.Devils are the fallen angels,and evil spirits are those creatures that died during the flood.God calls them the bastards in the book of enoch.
When they died;their souls were not accepted in heaven,because they are mixed creatures,so they are roaming on the earth,causing trouble.
The women are called SIRENS,and there are children as well.It is those evil spirits that caused mankind trouble,not the fallen angels.
The fallen angels consider them selves superior to those evil spirits.The Gods of the nations are the fallen angels masquerading as gods. Every nations believes and gods are those fallen angels;they love to be woshipped.
wakeup.
Wakeup,I have heard that hypothesis but I know of no support for it in Scripture.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 23 2012,12:37) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 22 2012,22:09) Quote (david @ Dec. 19 2012,23:01) Does everyone here believe that mental illness is actually demon possession?
I believe there's no way for you to know every single cause of every single case of “mental illness”.I believe demons still play an active part in messing with God's creation – namely: man.
Like I've just posted to Kerwin, just because the convulsions CAN BE attributed to epilepsy doesn't mean epilepsy IS what caused them.
Mike,From reading Scripture I find that it calls a form of demon possession what we diagnose as epilepsy today. Here is a case that sounds like deafness associated with epilepsy. The speech impairment is possibly a result of the demon caused deafness.
Mark 9:17-27
King James Version (KJV)17 And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit;
18 And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.
19 He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.
20 And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.
21 And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child.
22 And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.
23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.
26 And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead.
27 But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.I don't know as Scripture ever attributes these things to non-demonic causes. I do know there is at least one case of deafness and speech impairment that does not explicitly state it is demon possession.
Mark 7:32-37
King James Version (KJV)32 And they bring unto him one that was deaf, and had an impediment in his speech; and they beseech him to put his hand upon him.
33 And he took him aside from the multitude, and put his fingers into his ears, and he spit, and touched his tongue;
34 And looking up to heaven, he sighed, and saith unto him, Ephphatha, that is, Be opened.
35 And straightway his ears were opened, and the string of his tongue was loosed, and he spake plain.
36 And he charged them that they should tell no man: but the more he charged them, so much the more a great deal they published it;
37 And were beyond measure astonished, saying, He hath done all things well: he maketh both the deaf to hear, and the dumb to speak.
In the past, I would think that epilepsy was very often diagnosed as demon possession.This weird very strange scary thing is happening to someone. How were they possibly to explain it?
Demons.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 23 2012,03:14) Quote (david @ Dec. 21 2012,17:51) Do most here basically agree that what people call mental illness is actually demons torturing the minds of see people?
I think it's clear that all of us, except for you, believe that what is often diagnosed as mental illness CAN BE instead an affliction caused by a demon.
Does anyone agree with these ideas:>99% of psychics are fakes.
>99% of demon possession/mental illness are actually mental illness.
Does anyone here agree that if you physically beat a child, or abuse them as a child, they are likely to develop a mental illness?
And of you do agree, how would this be related to demons?
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