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Hi all!
It has been claimed by some that the majority on this forum believed that Jesus was begotten before the ages or time as the Only Begotten Son of God born from Gods own body through procreation.
When was Jesus “begotten”?
What say you?
WJ
Hi:
He is the Only Son uniquely conceived of God's Spirit in the womb of a woman, and so, Only Begotten Son speaks of this. He was begotten or born again from the dead when he was declared to be the Son of God by the Spirit of Holiness when he was resurrected from the dead, but we also because of him are born again from the dead.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 14 2010,16:43) Hi all! It has been claimed by some that the majority on this forum believed that Jesus was begotten before the ages or time as the Only Begotten Son of God born from Gods own body through procreation.
When was Jesus “begotten”?
What say you?
WJ
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.John 3:16 God SENT His only begotten son…..
The Professor
WJ…………None of you options are right, Jesus was begotten when the Holy Spiirt came (INTO) Him (AFTER) He was Baptized at the Jordan River by John the Baptist. The same happens to us we are begotten when we recieve Holy Spirit or Seed of GOD (into) Us also. But like Him we are not (born) into the Kingdom of GOD until we are resurected. But just begotten only, we have holy seed (IN) us at that time. That is why the voice Said (THIS DAY) I have begotten YOU , that was after He recieved Holy Spirit from on High after his baptism. IMO
peace and love………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 14 2010,14:18) WJ…………None of you options are right, Jesus was begotten when the Holy Spiirt came (INTO) Him (AFTER) He was Baptized at the Jordan River by John the Baptist.
Hi Gene,That's the #3 choice above. Should I cast an “absentee” vote for Nick on that one also?
mike
Mike……….Please pay attention, there is a difference, WJ is saying Jesus was begotten by His baptism , we are saying He was begotten when the HOLY Spirit descended (ON) Him (after, after, after , after) his Baptism , He wasn't begotten by (the) Baptism but by (the) Holy Spiirt coming into him (AFTER) His baptism , the same thing apply s Now with Us to. Do you get what i was saying brother. Nick also believe Jesus after receiving the Holy Spirit (AFTER) He was Baptized in the Jordan and then he was Begotten by GOD.
peace and love………………………..gene
Hi Gene,
Are you serious? Did Jesus get baptized and then, like a day or two later, the holy spirit descended on him? Or was it right away……..AT HIS BAPTISM?
Mar 1:10
And just as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens splitting apart and the Spirit descending on him like a dove.Maybe YOU need to pay more attention Gene.
mike
btw, WJ doesn't use the words “by his baptism”, but “WHEN he was baptised”. So like I said, you want choice #3.
Hi All,
Just so you know, the “Today” could have just as easily been translated “at this time” in both the Hebrew and when Paul quotes it later. Both the Hebrew and the Greek words used could mean “during this time period”. Don't ignore the fact that God begat Jesus literally just because God chose to use a word we would all understand. None of the early church fathers had confusion because of Paul's use of Psalm 2:7 – why should you……unless it is you who causes the confusion to further your own doctrine.
peace and love,
mikeHi WJ,
There is MUCH “Fractal” consistency in “The Bible”!
This one is seven-fold, “God's Perfect Number”!Jesus was the “Son of God” at…
1) His Pre-existence. (Job 38:7)
2) His Conception. (Luke 1:35)
3) His Birth (Mathew 1:18, 20)
4) His Baptism (John 1:33-34)
5) His Ministry (Mathew 14:33)
6) His Crucifixion. (Mark 15:39)
7) His Resurrection. (Rom.1:4)'Your' missing “a few” as there are “Seven” total…
And where is the all of the above button anyway?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgMike……….The point being it was NOT the Water Baptism that (begot) Jesus it was the HOLY Spirit that did it. That was my point. It was right away (AFTER) HIS BAPTISM Not before or during but ( AFTER) when He came Out of the WATER. Jesus was not begotten (WHEN) He was Baptized it was AFTER when the HOLY SPIRIT came on HIM is the POINT. Mike i think you need to understand what truly begot Jesus. Was it the water or was it the Holy Spirit?
Now you who resist the notion that (through) can just as easily be render in the Greek text are now saying that the word (today) could also mean , (This time Period), seems you apply thing the way they best suit you, on the one hand it can't be, but when it comes to your opinions then it can be. Is not this being a little dishonest and deceptive on your part. Seems Like we have a double standard going on here.
peace and love………………………….gene
To all,
Be careful not to read too much into a scripture. For instance God is stating in Psalm 6-7 that he displays himself as Jesus’ Father when he places Jesus on his throne but the context of the scripture shows Jesus was his Son before that date. In the case of Jesus’ transfiguration on a mountain recorded in Luke 9:35 and the case of his baptism at the Jordon recorded in Mark 1:11 God publically proclaimed that Jesus was his Son. None of these tell when Jesus became God’s Son and the only thing I can say for sure is that John teaches us in John 1:12-13 that the Holy Spirit gives people the right to become children of God and that such children are not born of a human decision, natural decent, or a husbands will. I also know that those who live by the Spirit of righteousness do not sin according to Galatians 5:16. Since Jesus never sinned even though he was tempted by evil just as we are, Hebrews 4:15, it follows he always walked according to the ways of the spirit of righteousness. Since he always walked according to the ways of the spirit he must have had the spirit from the point he was capable of committing a sin. I do not know the point at which a human being is capable of committing a sin though I am sure it is before the point they become accountable for their sins, which is about 12 years old according to tradition. I will therefore venture to say that Jesus had the spirit at least from birth though he probably received it before birth as it seemed present with John the Baptist before his birth, Luke 1:41.
Kerwin………Scripture says Jesus was the (second) Adam, this means that Jesus was indeed a flesh and blood being and God can bless and Keep anyone at any time and Jesus was indeed Kept from sinning by GOD. But he was not empowered until He recieved the Anointing or Holy Spiirt after he was Baptized in water at the Jordan river> Now if Jesus could have accomplished His goal without the Spirit Being given Him in fullness then there would have been no need for him to recieve it would there because he would have already had it. This was done to Show GOD the Father involvement in His Life with power through the holy spirit anointing on him. It is the same with us, we must have GOD'S Spirit in us also to overcome. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Hi Mike,
There was no DAY… nor TIME … Either translation was Outside of Time and outside of Days.
Gene, just select #3 for the exercise – no refinement required, brother.
Mike, are you saying you have been making selections 'by proxy'? Is this allowed?
Kerwin… Are you for REAL???
What on earth or in Heaven does “Don't read too much into a Scripture” mean…
Are you from the Skeptics? (excuse me but I don't read people's profile – just what they say…!)
ALL righteous Sentient Holy Spirited creations of God ARE “Sons of God”. What is it that is hard to understand.
Angels are “Sons of God”.
“Mankind” was a “Son of God” but Adam lost us that standing when he sinned – became unHoly, unRighteous.
Jesus cam to restore the situation by offering, and accomplishing, the taking away the “Original Sin” of Adam.
Now, we are individually responsible for our “Sin” and it is for each of us to strive to become Righteous, to become Holy and to become a “Son of God” once again.
– A complete means and wherefore this can be accomplished requires a deeper explanation – but simply: follow the testament of Jesus and “Walk in the ways of God”Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 14 2010,08:43) Hi all! It has been claimed by some that the majority on this forum believed that Jesus was begotten before the ages or time as the Only Begotten Son of God born from Gods own body through procreation.
When was Jesus “begotten”?
What say you?
WJ
The son (the Word/Jesus) was not procreated, he was created. Jesus himself said, he is the beginning of God's “CREATION”, Rev. 3:14.
You can read about “His” beginning in Prov. 8:22-30.Georg
JustAskin,
I placed my reasoning for all to see and I continue to stand by it. I do agree that all those that live by the spirit of righteousness, excepting God himself, are sons of God. That includes Jesus. My argument was that Jesus became a son when he obtained the spirit of God.
I had not thought though that he may not have been the Son of God until a different time as that title indicates he was something other than he was just another righteous being. If you look at it that way then God glorified Jesus with the title Son of God before the world was created even though Jesus was not yet conceived.
Worshipping Jesus may be correct that the title did not officially go to Jesus until he ascended to heaven to sit on his throne. I have not checked on it as it is a low priority as I do not consider the knowledge important to overcoming the world.
Gene,
The Anointing – you should know from Scripture – is the setting aside of one in Lieu of Kingship…
David was not 'begotten of God' when he was “Anointed” – or please correct me…
Which is greater:
a) “This is my Son in whom I am well pleased”
or
b) “You are my Son, This day I have begotten you”The first acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God.
The Second endorses the first in full ceremonial colouring – adding “Let all the angels of heaven do obeisance to him”
Why the latter – whom does one do obesiance to; “A King”, “a Great one”, “a God” (Note…. Praise Honor and Glorify the King, BUT Worship “THE [one and only] GOD”)JA…….I would not say scripture says it is setting aside for rule of kingship, many were used as Prophets of GOD and not kings. The spirit or the seed of GOD expands a persons (INTELLECT) to more comprehend the things of GOD. We are said to have been given the (earnest) of GOD, the Spirit of Truth , the ability to recolonize the truth. It is like GOD adds a higher dimension to us by his anointing. When God adopts us as his child he pours out his spirit into our minds and (IT) begins to impute Godly intellect to us, we become Godly minded and to me this is when we become truely begotten Childern of GOD. Some say born at that that time but if that were the case then why even have two words (born and Begotten) if they meant one and the same thing. It is some what confusing when we use different word to mean the same thing . IMO
As far as your which is greater example both are connected, because Jesus could not have pleased GOD without being begotten by him. begetting is one thing and BORN is quite another to me, one is a work in process and the other is what is produce by that operation. All who have God spirit anointing in them are now begotten of GOD, but we become born into the family later at the resurrection of the begotten. Jesus became a full Son of GOD at his Anointing of Holy Spirit, but was not fully born into the Kingdom of GOD until He was resurected and attained to eternal life. Up until that time he was begotten, is the way i understand it. Begetting is the process of coming to be, but born is the conclusion of that process. IMO
I do agree with you final statement , We give obeisance to a King ,and praise and honor Him, but we Worship The one and ONLY True GOD.
peace and love…………………gene
Hi All
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; “this day (Gr. yowm) have I begotten thee. Pss 2:7
The Greek word for “Day” is Strong's H3117 – yowm which means;
1) day, time, year
a) day (as opposed to night)
b) day (24 hour period)
1) as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
2) as a division of time
a) a working day, a day's journey
c) days, lifetime (pl.)
d) time, period (general)
e) year
f) temporal references
1) today
2) yesterday
3) tomorrow
So this day was in the framework of time.
Therefore Jesus had to of existed when the begetting took place because he was there before the ages or time since the scriptures says he was there in the beginning of all things including day one.
Mike the source is from Blueletterbible which is one of the most widely used and recognized sources on the net.
The NET commentary of this verse says…
‘You are my son!’ The Davidic king was viewed as God’s “son” (see 2 Sam 7:14; Ps 89:26-27). The idiom reflects ancient Near Eastern adoption language associated with covenants of grant, by which a lord would reward a faithful subject by elevating him to special status, referred to as “sonship.” Like a son, the faithful subject received an “inheritance,” viewed as an unconditional, eternal gift. Such gifts usually took the form of land and/or an enduring dynasty. See M. Weinfeld, “The Covenant of Grant in the Old Testament and in the Ancient Near East,” JAOS 90 (1970): 184-203, for general discussion and some striking extra-biblical parallels.
No way can this verse mean that Jesus was “Begotten” before the ages or time.
WJ
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