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I was reading from "Is the Trinity Doctrine Taught in the Bible?", part 3 Who is Jesus. I am confused about the reference to Proverbs 8:22-30. I understand from the text of the Heaven Net article that the author is stating that this verse refers to Jesus. However, when I read Proverbs 8, I find the passage is referring to wisdom. The pronouns "she" and "her" are used to refer to wisdom. Therefore, I don’t understand the reasoning behind the use of this scripture for the purpose of either proving or disproving the trinity or Jesus’ pre-existence or creation. If wisdom is likened to a woman then Jesus is not being referred to here. Am I misunderstanding the use of the scripture and its intended purpose in the article or am I misunderstanding the scripture? Thank you.
Yes the scripture is talking about wisdom in a contextual sense. There seems to be a natural division from verse 22 onward, where it is talking about a person.
- First of all it says that The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works
- When there were no oceans, I was given birth…
- Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence,
- Note the word craftsMAN, rejoicing and given birth are personal traits.
Scripture seems to do this often. A concept or a person is mentioned, then the spirit or power of that thing is mentioned. For an example see Ezekiel 28. Here it talks about a man/ruler then it talks about a cherub/king who is perhaps the spirit behind the man. Many believe this cherub/king is Satan but the scripture in the beginning is clearly talking about the ruler of Tyre, a man.
It must be noted that Jesus is the personification of wisdom. He is also the Word of God, yet he is not literally a word in concept, but the personification of the Word of God. Jesus is also the Way (street), but he is not really a street. I can speak truth in a conceptual sense, but Jesus is actually the person of Truth. I can have life, yet Jesus is the Life. He lives in me. Life has a conceptual meaning, but it's source comes from a person. Same with wisdom.
The bible is full of imagery and symbols. The Book of Revelation talks about the seven stars (Angels) , the Dragon (Satan), the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet (Alpha and Omega, God). Jesus also spoke in parables.
Now it is clear from the proverbs scripture that God used wisdom to create creation, (Then I was the craftsman at his side.) and we also know that God created all things through Christ.
- Colossians 1:15 (English-NIV): He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
- John 1:3 (English-NIV): Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Even if you do not believe that Jesus is the wisdom of God spoken of in Proverbs 8:22-30, the above scriptures alone point out the truth that God created all things through Jesus Christ and that was the point I was making in the trinity writing. Jesus is not God, rather the Father is God and Jesus is the Word, whom God created all things through.
Now the female references in the proverbs scripture seem to refer to the concept and the male language ie craftsman seems to be talking about the person.
Finally I leave you with the following scripture, 1 Corinthians 1:30:
It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.Hi,
In context the verses of proverbs8 are 7-9 and are contrasting Folly with Wisdom. Folly seduces as a harlot and she leads to death. Wisdom is imbued in all creation. It is as logic and reason, law and order, science and commonsense. As it was from the beginning of creation all creation contains it and shows the nature of God.
I was always tempted to see this as Jesus but now I am not so sure.No problem if we differ here. It doesn't divide us in any way as we see eye to eye about who Christ is anyway.
I personally believe it is so because Jesus is actually referenced as wisdom from God in the NT and the following verses suggest that wisdom (the concept) was given birth before time and then he (who was born) participated with God at creation and was also by God's side. A very fitting description for the only begotten who is called Wisdom and is at God's side.
When there were no oceans, I was given birth…
Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence,
So yes most of it is talking about wisdom in concept, but then wisdom was given birth. At that point I believe it is Christ being referenced.
The fact that the Hebrew word for “wisdom” is always in the feminine gender does not conflict with the use of wisdom to represent God’s Son. The Greek word for “love” in the expression “God is love” is also in the feminine gender. (1 John 4:8) Yet, it is used to refer to God.
This is in reply to the first comment on this thread, where it was stated:
Quote If wisdom is likened to a woman then Jesus is not being referred to here. Am I misunderstanding the use of the scripture and its intended purpose in the article or am I misunderstanding the scripture?
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