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t8 wrote:
Quote think about this. When you are referring to a group of people, do you say HIM, HIS, etc. No you say them, they, etc. So if your God is a group, then call them “THEY” & “THEM” etc.
Hi t8,
First, I have pointed out several times in different forums that Elohim said “Let US make man in OUR image. So God is referred to both in the singular and the plural pronoun.Second, I have pointed out also that after God created the man and woman He referred to them both in the singular as well as the plural pronoun
Quote So God created man in His own image; in the image of God he created HIM; male and female He created THEM. thinker
t8 said:
Quote Moses was a type of savour and even angels are there to save us from physical calamity. t8,
Moses was but a “type” of savior. But Jesus was indeed THE Savior. Second,t8 said:
Quote Jesus said I only do that which I see my Father doing. The Father did not suffer and die on the cross. In the moment of Jesus death the Father forsook Him. If the Father forsook Him then Jesus was acting ALONE in that instance.
The Scripture says,
Quote He Himself is the propitiation for our sins (1 John 2:2) It clearly says that Jesus Himself is the propitiation for our sins. How can the Father be the “propitiation” when it was His wrath against us that was propitiated?
thinker
Gene said:
Quote Not to Jesus, but to GOD. GOD (SPOKE) to us in times past (THROUGH) the Prophets has now spoken to us (THROUGH) A SON. Point is who was speaking , it says GOD SPOKE (TROUGH) THEM, and that includes the Prophets also. imo Gene,
The Scripture says this,Quote The Father sent the Son TO BE the Savior of the world (1 John 4:14) If the Father is our Savior, then why did He send the Son TO BE the Savior? If the Father sent the Son to be the Savior then the Son is the Savior. This is the gospel man!
thinker
thinker
Hi tt,
God does not offer Himself as a sacrifice.
If you are saved through Jesus the son and given saviour then God is your Saviour.Nick said:
Quote
Jn8
54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:Of course God wasn't the sacrificial propitiation.
God does not die. A man had to die for men.Nick,
Whew! I am glad that you have confessed that Jesus alone is the propitiation for our sins. This is a relief!Nick wrote:
Quote Jn8
54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:Jesus said that if He honored Himself His honor was nothing. But then He said that it is the Father who honors Him. Do you?
thinker
Nick said:
Quote Hi tt,
God is the Saviour
through Jesus
for us.No! The Father sent the Son TO BE the Savior of the world (1 John 4:14).
thinker
Nick said:
Quote God does not offer Himself as a sacrifice.
If you are saved through Jesus the son and given saviour then God is your Saviour.Acts 20:28:
Quote Feed the church of GOD which he has purcahsed with His own blood Did the Father shed His own blood? You just said that “God does not offer Himself as a sacrifice.” Therefore, the name “God” here is clearly and undisputably a reference to Christ.
thinker
Hi tt,
Jesus is the son of man who died for us.
God is not a man that He could die.God purchased us with the loss of His own flesh and blood son.
God is not flesh but spirit.
God is good.
Jb25
4How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?5Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight.
6How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?
G
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 04 2009,21:08) Hi WJ,
God is the only saviour.
He uses His saviour son as the gate of the WayBut you say
“Since Jesus is the only one that can save a soul and reveal the Father then that would mean that he did the greater works.”You really are getting quite muddled as you desperately try to justify this dangerous nonsense.
NH and t8You say…
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 04 2009,21:08)
God is the only saviour.
Then you say and t8 gives a high five too…Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 04 2009,21:08) He uses His saviour son as the gate of the Way
If God is the “Only Saviour” then how is Jesus a Saviour Son!”NEITHER IS THERE SALVATION IN ANY OTHER: for there is NONE OTHER NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved”. Acts 4:12
Is there anywhere in scriptures that Moses or others are said to be the only name by which a man is saved?
I Didn't think so.
So if the scriptures claim that YHWH is the only Saviour and also claims Jesus is the only Saviour, then it is a contradiction or Jesus is God as the scriptures proclaim.
Now it not only seems that you reduce him to a mere man but also trying to reduce him to less than “The Saviour”.
WJ
Hi WJ,
There is no other name UNDER HEAVEN.
Jesus is a man and the mediator between men and God.
He is not that God or part of that God mediating with Himself.Nick said:
Quote God purchased us with the loss of His own flesh and blood son. Nick,
The text in Acts clearly says that God shed his own blood. Therefore, the name “God” is undoubtedly a reference to the Son.thinker
Hi tt,
Men decided God was a trinity by reason.
They should rather rely on scripture.Such a statement is never found in the mouths of God's servants.
Reason is a pathetic measure of truth.
The word is truth[jn17.17]Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 05 2009,09:15) Hi tt,
Men decided God was a trinity by reason.
They should rather rely on scripture.Such a statement is never found in the mouths of God's servants.
Reason is a pathetic measure of truth.
The word is truth[jn17.17]
Nick,
Earlier today you correctly pointed out that if Jesus honored Himself then His honor meant nothing. But you ignored the part that says, “The Father honors Me.”Okay, Jesus said that His self honor means nothing. But what does the Father's honor of Him mean? So my question is two-fold to you now:
a. What does the Father's honor of Jesus mean?
b. Do you honor Jesus?thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 05 2009,06:50) Hi WJ,
There is no other name UNDER HEAVEN.
Jesus is a man and the mediator between men and God.
He is not that God or part of that God mediating with Himself.
NHThere you go again. You just can't stop can you?
Now you are trying to say that Jesus name is not above all names in heaven, but only those under heaven.
Jesus has a name above all names!
The Father gave him this name when he took on the likeness of sinful flesh.
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Phil 2:9-11
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 05 2009,06:50) He is not that God or part of that God mediating with Himself.
Then why did he say “come unto me”? Why is our fellowship with the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit?To the degree that you know the Son, to that degree you know the Father. You cannot know the Father apart from the Son, therefore “IF YOU ONLY KNOW THE SON AS A MAN THEN YOU CANNOT KNOW THE FATHER AS GOD”.
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. “IF YE HAD KNOWN ME, YE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN MY FATHER ALSO: AND FROM HENCEFORTH YE KNOW HIM, AND HAVE SEEN HIM”. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? “HE THAT HATH SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; AND HOW SAYEST THOU THEN, SHEW US THE FATHER”?
Blessings
WJ
Hi WJ,
Go back to the scripture YOU QUOTED.Acts 4:12
“And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”Argue with it if you must.
Quote (thethinker @ April 05 2009,09:56) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 05 2009,09:15) Hi tt,
Men decided God was a trinity by reason.
They should rather rely on scripture.Such a statement is never found in the mouths of God's servants.
Reason is a pathetic measure of truth.
The word is truth[jn17.17]
Nick,
Earlier today you correctly pointed out that if Jesus honored Himself then His honor meant nothing. But you ignored the part that says, “The Father honors Me.”Okay, Jesus said that His self honor means nothing. But what does the Father's honor of Him mean? So my question is two-fold to you now:
a. What does the Father's honor of Jesus mean?
b. Do you honor Jesus?thinker
Hi tt,
No you are quoting someone else.
Indeed God honours His Son and all His servants.Hebrews 7:7
But without any dispute the lesser is blessed by the greater.God is greater.
John 10:29
” My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.Thethinker said:
Quote Nick,
Earlier today you correctly pointed out that if Jesus honored Himself then His honor meant nothing. But you ignored the part that says, “The Father honors Me.”Okay, Jesus said that His self honor means nothing. But what does the Father's honor of Him mean? So my question is two-fold to you now:
a. What does the Father's honor of Jesus mean?
b. Do you honor Jesus?Nick replied:
Quote Hi tt,
No you are quoting someone else.
Indeed God honours His Son and all His servants.But Nick did write:
Quote Jn8
54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: (April 04 at 21:33)Jesus questioned the Jew's supposed devotion to God on the grounds that they did not honor Him as the Father honors Him.
Nick,
You say that the Father is your God. Where is the proof? Back it up by bowing to Jesus!thinker
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