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Quote (Stu @ Sep. 07 2010,16:53) Sorry, was there a reason for the impossibility of Hawking's statement anywhere in there? You are just saying you think it is not possible. I can just as easily say you are wrong, it is perfectly possible. Stuart
If he is saying that something came from nothing, then yes that is impossible.If he is saying that something came from nothing but was influenced by something else, or that he doesn't know what happened before the nothing, (i.e., if the nothing is merely the 0 point in a pendulum or fluctuation for example) then that is possible.
But ultimately, something had to come from something and something has to be eternal, otherwise it came from nothing which is unacceptable because nothing by it's very definition cannot do anything, never mind inflate into an ordered universe.
Quote (Stu @ Sep. 07 2010,16:52) You mentioned this god thing, so you decided it was important. I asked you what it is you are talking about, and now it appears I was right: you do not have any better an answer than a list of religious platitudes. Five of them, to be precise. Stuart
Sorry Stu you are wrong again on this one.It is against the rules to diverge from the topic.
This topic is focussed on the universe coming from nothing or something. It is not about WHO God is.
Feel free to start up another topic that is focussed on what it is you want to talk about. That is how the forum works Stu. So go ahead and use it to your advantage.
Stu,
I weep for you and your ilk…but only so much. It was sympathy that caused Lot's wife to look back on Sodom and Gomorrah that caused her to be turned into a pillar of salt.
Have hope for the deluded while it is still day but when the night comes do not feel sorry for the fall of the wicked ones.
Stu – I will leave you in your pot to stew over this:
What will you say to God when he asks
“Were you not advised of me?,
and the works of my own hands?
and that you were formed for my glory – but you chose to make it your own – that is theft!”oh, by the way, you rightly discerned my little 'error for effect' – I wonder if you discerned the hidden writings in my other post – not many readers do – some even think I am crazy because they read the 'apparent misspellings' and 'apparent bad grammar' as Justaskin needing a spillchucker. JustAskin is not ignorant but subtle – perhaps too subtle for some …er… most!
Since you were able to fathom out that I was deliberately in error you must have a level of understanding over the norm – Pity you put it to use for such a pointless reward: Solomon was the wisest man that ever lived and became the richest man that ever lived from it – yet even he saw the delusion in the singularity of wisdom, namely, no matter what he did with his wisdom there was nothing he could do to pass it on to anyone else, nor fathom the heart of God nor heal a broken heart, nor know what is to be before it's allotted time, nor stop yourself or anyone else from dying because there is a power greater than Science and sadly. those who deny that higher power, no matter what their level of Wisdom – they will go to purgatory in disgrace.
And this is what Science does for one – no matter how much you find out – no matter how wonderful, glorious, revelatory and appealing the DISCOVERIES of Science, it is as nothing without realisation of it's designer, the creator, YHVH God, and, the answer to the great question:“And then it happened – Out of nothing (Or so it appeared…! Yet it was there all along – in another form – Energy and light – Pure energy the embodiment of the Intelligence. And the Intelligence spoke a word and formed the energy into matter and into some matter the Intelligence put in a drop of himself creating, in that moment, entities, and the entities became life. And the entities with life and a drop of intelligence existed for a moment and then thought “We can be master of ourselves – by ourselves we came to be” and the entities with life and a little drop of intelligence disowned it's creator believing that it came from nothing…and believing that they will be master of everything) WHY? out of the gloom an ethereal voice said unto me, “What is man that he desires to be God? He scurries around in his four dimensions like an insect in a jar: seeing the great beyond – the glory of the field, green grass, the wind, the nectar, the temperate air, the life giving Sun… and he says to himself: 'If I could only get out of this jar then I will be the master of all I survey' … but the next moment a hitherto unseen lesser spotted dung-toad flicks a well aimed sticky tongue at him and gobbles him up… and as his life ebbs away in the fetted stomach of the ugly beast he says 'Why…Why am I such a glorious creature – full of wisdom and grace, yet my fate is this – oh Life, why.. oh Lord – Why did you make me – for what reason was I here? and so lightly cast aside as fodder for such an unawesome creature – Why?? Question asked – but, sadly, No Answer was forth coming – and so he died – No wiser than the tiniest of creatures – for all his Wisdom” Why –do– we exist?”
Hey nice post JA.
After reading the marquee, it made the rest of the text look like it was going the other way.
All about perspective isn't it.And God's perspective is the only true perspective.
t8,
thanks.
if you only read from the left hand corner the illusion won't happen. only when you look from the middle (or at least with me) (p.s. The marquee timing is wrong – to jumpy – i did it quickly without checking – hope there are no epileptics out there reading this?)
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 08 2010,07:52) Quote (Stu @ Sep. 06 2010,16:34) So, for the crowds, I will repeat my answer: I am agnostic, as we all must be. I make the provisional conclusion that, given the complete lack of unambiguous evidence for gods, no such thing exists. I will be swayed by unambiguous evidence. Do you have any?
Great stuff Stu. You are taking honesty more seriously now.I can work with that.
I have said this all along!Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 08 2010,07:56) Quote (Stu @ Sep. 07 2010,16:53) Sorry, was there a reason for the impossibility of Hawking's statement anywhere in there? You are just saying you think it is not possible. I can just as easily say you are wrong, it is perfectly possible. Stuart
If he is saying that something came from nothing, then yes that is impossible.
Oh well, if you say so…Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 08 2010,07:59) Quote (Stu @ Sep. 07 2010,16:52) You mentioned this god thing, so you decided it was important. I asked you what it is you are talking about, and now it appears I was right: you do not have any better an answer than a list of religious platitudes. Five of them, to be precise. Stuart
Sorry Stu you are wrong again on this one.It is against the rules to diverge from the topic.
This topic is focussed on the universe coming from nothing or something. It is not about WHO God is.
Feel free to start up another topic that is focussed on what it is you want to talk about. That is how the forum works Stu. So go ahead and use it to your advantage.
I stand by what I wrote. I did not introduce a god idea to this thread, you did. Obviously you think it is an important factor. However when you are asked more about it you have become very coy and reluctant to expand. Is that because you don't think your god concept is important now, or maybe because you cannot say what it is in order to explain what part it has played in cosmological history?Instead you use irrelevant technicalities and platitudes as a smoke screen. Well don't worry yourself, I was not expecting you to attempt a successful defense of the christian Imaginary Friend. The concept makes no difference to any solid understanding of the past 13.7 billion years.
Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 08 2010,17:04) Hey nice post JA. After reading the marquee, it made the rest of the text look like it was going the other way.
All about perspective isn't it.And God's perspective is the only true perspective.
Is this god relevant to the subject of the thread? If so, can you please tell us what it is, and how it is, or else try to stay on-topic??Stuart
If you read the marquee from the center
as normal reading is meant'a
the main page will seem askew
like how Science has mislead Stuhis view is too close
and misses the most
he sees the world spinning back
and explains it with Science Hackhe's not wrong – but not wholly right
cause it's true from his own sight
put your view first then it's fact
i think they call it ParallaxStep back and step out
and the reality will no doubt
be as clear as day light
it's the marquee text that is moving!
essentially removing
the conundrical illusion
cause: Man-Centric confusion!Science reveals some things
That's truth to say
But Science only reveals Some things
It doesn't go all the waySo what does go all the way
Don't shout – I'm happy to say…
I won't keep you in suspense
that wouldn't make sense
but you try to figure it if you may
then I'll tell ya on another dayJustAskin
Quote I weep for you and your ilk…but only so much. It was sympathy that caused Lot's wife to look back on Sodom and Gomorrah that caused her to be turned into a pillar of salt.
Yes, I’ve often wondered what that myth says about the character of your Imaginary Friend. How petulant and small-minded would you have to be to take that sort of revenge just because someone ignored your paranoid orders? I guess you must admire this personality defect in others too, like the mass-murdering dictators of the Twentieth Century, who behaved in much the same way.Quote Have hope for the deluded while it is still day but when the night comes do not feel sorry for the fall of the wicked ones.
I say have hope for all no matter how deluded with visions of Imaginary Friends they may be.Quote Stu – I will leave you in your pot to stew over this:
What will you say to God when he asks
“Were you not advised of me?,
and the works of my own hands?
and that you were formed for my glory – but you chose to make it your own – that is theft!”
I will say that the moment is unexpected, but does present an opportunity to ask this god thing, on behalf of my fellow humans including my friend JustAskin, why it is that it killed between 2,400,000 and 32,000,000 humans. I will ask what universal principles are demonstrated by its killing of Lot’s wife, and its killing of Uzzah who was only trying genuinely to be helpful. Indeed I will ask it what moral is to be served by anyone worshipping it, if those worshippers appear to feel the need to lie about natural history and condemn others in its name.Quote Oh, by the way, you rightly discerned my little 'error for effect' – I wonder if you discerned the hidden writings in my other post – not many readers do – some even think I am crazy because they read the 'apparent misspellings' and 'apparent bad grammar' as Justaskin needing a spillchucker. JustAskin is not ignorant but subtle – perhaps too subtle for some …er… most!
And still you write about yourself in the third person. Does your head fit out through your front door?Quote there is a power greater than Science and sadly. those who deny that higher power, no matter what their level of Wisdom – they will go to purgatory in disgrace.
Which is unsupported by any sane experience anyone has ever had, relying as it does on a fantasy story that has been passed down with little questioning from those in its thrall.Quote And this is what Science does for one – no matter how much you find out – no matter how wonderful, glorious, revelatory and appealing the DISCOVERIES of Science, it is as nothing without realisation of it's designer, the creator, YHVH God, and, the answer to the great question:
You would think there would be ONE piece of unambiguous evidence to support this statement, wouldn’t you. But there isn’t. What is more, you just carry on with the broken record without addressing the variety of relevant points I have made to you. You could do no better than this to shout your insecurity in this belief system that has hijacked your mind.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Sep. 08 2010,19:42) JustAskin Quote Oh, by the way, you rightly discerned my little 'error for effect' – I wonder if you discerned the hidden writings in my other post – not many readers do – some even think I am crazy because they read the 'apparent misspellings' and 'apparent bad grammar' as Justaskin needing a spillchucker. JustAskin is not ignorant but subtle – perhaps too subtle for some …er… most!
And still you write about yourself in the third person. Does your head fit out through your front door?Stuart
Hi Stuart,He does appear to be a bit conceited; No?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Stu @ Sep. 08 2010,19:42) JustAskin You would think there would be ONE piece of unambiguous evidence to support this statement, wouldn’t you. But there isn’t. What is more, you just carry on with the broken record without addressing the variety of relevant points I have made to you. You could do no better than this to shout your insecurity in this belief system that has hijacked your mind.
Stuart
Hi Stuart,I have documented the “Proof” of God's existence.
But since it isn't a 8×10 color photo of God, you call it ambiguous?Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgIf you had a photo of God it would be fake.
You cannot photograph an eternal spirit.
We can't even photograph all the atoms in the human race, never mind a spirit that can exist in all things and even beyond that.Quote (Stu @ Sep. 08 2010,19:42) How petulant and small-minded would you have to be to take that sort of revenge just because someone ignored your paranoid orders?
You could be explaining yourself here.Quote (Stu @ Sep. 08 2010,19:13) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 08 2010,07:52) Quote (Stu @ Sep. 06 2010,16:34) So, for the crowds, I will repeat my answer: I am agnostic, as we all must be. I make the provisional conclusion that, given the complete lack of unambiguous evidence for gods, no such thing exists. I will be swayed by unambiguous evidence. Do you have any?
Great stuff Stu. You are taking honesty more seriously now.I can work with that.
I have said this all along!Stuart
Not so. I thought your statement was relatively recent,but since you say that you haven't really changed, then I guess I have to point out the following:You proudly stated earlier on that God had about a .05% chance of being true or some other minuscule number and you have ridiculed belief in God since you have been here. You haven't ridiculed the idea that there is no God, so I don't know whether to believe you. The evidence is terse Stu. You act more in accordance with atheism. Convince me otherwise.
Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 08 2010,20:35) Quote (Stu @ Sep. 08 2010,19:42) JustAskin You would think there would be ONE piece of unambiguous evidence to support this statement, wouldn’t you. But there isn’t. What is more, you just carry on with the broken record without addressing the variety of relevant points I have made to you. You could do no better than this to shout your insecurity in this belief system that has hijacked your mind.
Stuart
Hi Stuart,I have documented the “Proof” of God's existence.
But since it isn't a 8×10 color photo of God, you call it ambiguous?Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
I don't see why I shouldn't ask for a photograph! Can you explain convincingly why that would not be a reasonable request, without giving the kind of pointless platitudes that t8 gave?Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 08 2010,21:03) If you had a photo of God it would be fake.
You cannot photograph an eternal spirit.
We can't even photograph all the atoms in the human race, never mind a spirit that can exist in all things and even beyond that.
Ed, these are the platitudes I mean.Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 08 2010,21:14) Quote (Stu @ Sep. 08 2010,19:13) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 08 2010,07:52) Quote (Stu @ Sep. 06 2010,16:34) So, for the crowds, I will repeat my answer: I am agnostic, as we all must be. I make the provisional conclusion that, given the complete lack of unambiguous evidence for gods, no such thing exists. I will be swayed by unambiguous evidence. Do you have any?
Great stuff Stu. You are taking honesty more seriously now.I can work with that.
I have said this all along!Stuart
Not so. I thought your statement was relatively recent,but since you say that you haven't really changed, then I guess I have to point out the following:You proudly stated earlier on that God had about a .05% chance of being true or some other minuscule number and you have ridiculed belief in God since you have been here. You haven't ridiculed the idea that there is no God, so I don't know whether to believe you. The evidence is terse Stu. You act more in accordance with atheism. Convince me otherwise.
Where is the inconsistency?Stuart
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