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1 Timothy 3:16 (King James Version)
16And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
This is the same mystery and lack of understanding that anti-trinitarians have, yet trinitarians see clearly in The Word.
We believe ALL scripture, yet anti-trinitarians like to pick and choose…at least the ones on this board.
I'll check the gateway Bibles for example, one by one. Here we go:
New International Version–He
New American Standard Bible–He
The Message–He
Amplified Bible–He (with footnote that says: some manuscripts read “God”)
New Living Translation–He
English Standard Version–He
Contempary English Version–He (with footnote: “The Greek text has “he,” probably meaning “Christ.” Some manuscripts have “God.””)
New King James–God(But the footnote says: “NU-Text reads Who.”)King James–God
21st Century King James God
American Standard Version–He
Youngs Literal translation–God
Darby Translation–God
New Life Version–Christ
Holman Christian Standard Bible–He (with footnote: “Other mss read God”)
New International Readers Version–Jesus
Wycliffe New Testament–It?
Worldwide English–God
New International Version (UK) –He
Todays New International Version–HeQuote We believe ALL scripture, yet anti-trinitarians like to pick and choose…at least the ones on this board. One of us is picking and choosing a Bible. They make many new Bibles. The KJ was not the first English Bible. It certainly is not the original Bible. It was translated 1 1/2 milleniums after the original manuscripts.
We've gotten better at translating.Quote (david @ Aug. 30 2009,09:36) Quote We believe ALL scripture, yet anti-trinitarians like to pick and choose…at least the ones on this board. One of us is picking and choosing a Bible. They make many new Bibles. The KJ was not the first English Bible. It certainly is not the original Bible. It was translated 1 1/2 milleniums after the original manuscripts.
We've gotten better at translating.
Yes but it is the only authorized version, done so when a Jewish King sat on the throne (in England was it?).It is the only translation that is closest to the original hebrew bible. So it is the only authority english readers should seek.
Mostly everything else was re-interpreted using this bible, especially the NIV.
If we can't agree on The King James version, then we might as well all start learning hebrew and debate all this using the original tongue.
But better believe that the word translated from Hebrew was YHWH….that only should have you understand that it is to be understood as God.
BTW David, The KJ is like the second photo copy of the original hebrew bible…when you get down to your “many bibles” you start taking photocopies of photocopies of photocopies of the truth…
I mean you still get the truth, if you appreciate an extremely watered down version of it.
He is a significant water down of the word God and can completely distort your learning….
Be careful what bible's you're picking up….the NIV is real bad IMO it suggests not trinitarianism, it suggests straight up polytheism in many verse.
I don't think it was done intentionally, but that's what u get reading watered down copies.
Quote (david @ Aug. 30 2009,09:33) I'll check the gateway Bibles for example, one by one. Here we go: New International Version–He
New American Standard Bible–He
The Message–He
Amplified Bible–He (with footnote that says: some manuscripts read “God”)
New Living Translation–He
English Standard Version–He
Contempary English Version–He (with footnote: “The Greek text has “he,” probably meaning “Christ.” Some manuscripts have “God.””)
New King James–God(But the footnote says: “NU-Text reads Who.”)King James–God
21st Century King James God
American Standard Version–He
Youngs Literal translation–God
Darby Translation–God
New Life Version–Christ
Holman Christian Standard Bible–He (with footnote: “Other mss read God”)
New International Readers Version–Jesus
Wycliffe New Testament–It?
Worldwide English–God
New International Version (UK) –He
Todays New International Version–He
O and it's funny that you are debating that it says “He” a real argument is if they translated it to Jesus….but they all translate it to He or God….if those are your only 2 options…then what do you think He implies….Jesus or God?We see it fluttered all through the bible that The Father was also referred to as He….
So if your only options are He and God…then we can conclude the HE refers to God.
Quote It is the only translation that is closest to the original hebrew bible Quote The KJ is like the second photo copy of the original hebrew bible.. All joking aside, this is not true.
Quote The KJ is like the second photo copy of the original hebrew bible…when you get down to your “many bibles” you start taking photocopies of photocopies of photocopies of the truth… I don't think you know how Bible's are translated. You know, we have more manuscripts and better manuscripts now than when the KJ was created.
Quote So it is the only authority english readers should seek.
and the english bibles that came before the KJ?Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 30 2009,10:02) Quote (david @ Aug. 30 2009,09:33) I'll check the gateway Bibles for example, one by one. Here we go: New International Version–He
New American Standard Bible–He
The Message–He
Amplified Bible–He (with footnote that says: some manuscripts read “God”)
New Living Translation–He
English Standard Version–He
Contempary English Version–He (with footnote: “The Greek text has “he,” probably meaning “Christ.” Some manuscripts have “God.””)
New King James–God(But the footnote says: “NU-Text reads Who.”)King James–God
21st Century King James God
American Standard Version–He
Youngs Literal translation–God
Darby Translation–God
New Life Version–Christ
Holman Christian Standard Bible–He (with footnote: “Other mss read God”)
New International Readers Version–Jesus
Wycliffe New Testament–It?
Worldwide English–God
New International Version (UK) –He
Todays New International Version–He
O and it's funny that you are debating that it says “He” a real argument is if they translated it to Jesus….but they all translate it to He or God….if those are your only 2 options…then what do you think He implies….Jesus or God?We see it fluttered all through the bible that The Father was also referred to as He….
So if your only options are He and God…then we can conclude the HE refers to God.
CONTEXT. I'm not certain you read the actual verse.It's obviously talking about Jesus.
He was made manifest in flesh,
Does the Bible say “Jesus” “became flesh” or does it say “God” “became flesh.”
Of course, it says “Jesus.” So, in saying “he was made manifest in the flesh” that's a clue who we're talking about: Jesus.
1 JOHN 4:2
“YOU gain the knowledge of the inspired expression from God by this: Every inspired expression that confesses Jesus Christ as having come in the flesh originates with God,”The Bible many times says “Jesus” came in the flesh. It does not say this of God, except in this verse in question (1 tim 3:16)
Apparently, some manuscripts read “God” at 1 tim 3:16 and some read “he.” The rest of Bible can help us determine which translation makes the most sense.
But, you cannot begin with this scripture which is highly questionable and use it as any basis for supporting other unclear scriptures.
Quote (david @ Aug. 30 2009,10:09) He was made manifest in flesh, Does the Bible say “Jesus” “became flesh” or does it say “God” “became flesh.”
Of course, it says “Jesus.” So, in saying “he was made manifest in the flesh” that's a clue who we're talking about: Jesus.
That verse didn't say Jesus, it said God.You can debate me all you want with other pieces of scripture, which is cool.
But you cannot ignore this verse. Don't pretend it says Jesus when it blatantly says God.
Quote (david @ Aug. 30 2009,10:13) 1 JOHN 4:2
“YOU gain the knowledge of the inspired expression from God by this: Every inspired expression that confesses Jesus Christ as having come in the flesh originates with God,”The Bible many times says “Jesus” came in the flesh. It does not say this of God, except in this verse in question (1 tim 3:16)
Apparently, some manuscripts read “God” at 1 tim 3:16 and some read “he.” The rest of Bible can help us determine which translation makes the most sense.
But, you cannot begin with this scripture which is highly questionable and use it as any basis for supporting other unclear scriptures.
It doesn't matter whether it says He or God…the Object of the verse we know to be Jesus…yet it said God was manifested flesh.This is concurrent to: In The beginning was the word, the word was with God and the Word WAS God…and The Word was Made Flesh.
This is 2 witnesses in the bible.
The first witness was…The word was God, and The Word was Made Flesh.
This second witness blatantly states, God was manifested in flesh….
In another post I have another witness in scripture….
2 unrefutable witnesses should be enough for you to believe Jesus was God made flesh….
In Mary's womb he was to be called Immanuel, which translates…God with us.
I mean i can go on and on…Jesus is God Amen!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 30 2009,10:35) Hi R,
God was in Him.[2Cor5]
Not just that, he was a part of him in a way non of us can ever be.The father dwelled in Jesus' very being for Jesus “CAME FORTH” from the father.
If i opened my mouth and another human being popped out of it…that human being wouldn't be seperate from he.
He'd be OF me. Even tho he may have his own identity and will…he'd still come from every bit of my flesh.
So if YHWH is spirit, and Jesus “Came Forth” from YHWH Jesus too is every bit YHWH in spirit….humbled to be man in Flesh…with his own Identity and Will (tho it's subjegated to the Father)
It doesn't make Jesus a different being…more like a replica of The Father…Same being…different manifestation.
Quote It doesn't matter whether it says He or God…the Object of the verse we know to be Jesus…yet it said God was manifested flesh. No…that is what is in question. It does “not” say “God.” SOME manuscripts say God. Many manuscripts say “He.” Since, as you say, the object of the verse is known to be Jesus, which manuscripts do you think are correct?
Quote But you cannot ignore this verse. Don't pretend it says Jesus when it blatantly says God. Does not scripture interpret itself. YOUR Bible says “God.” Most Bible's do not.
Quote (david @ Aug. 30 2009,10:51) Quote But you cannot ignore this verse. Don't pretend it says Jesus when it blatantly says God. Does not scripture interpret itself. YOUR Bible says “God.” Most Bible's do not.
KJ is the ONLY authorized english version.If you don't agree with that, then don't you dare argue with me based upon another “unreliable” Bible….
The truth is not found in multiple composites of bibles…there can only be 1 truth…you don't build a statistic saying 60% of Bible's say HE therefore HE is truth….
There is only 1 truth, debate out of the KJ or go to the original Hebrew Bible…but don't try to back yourself up with other bibles.
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