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Proclaimer: In Genesis 2:4, how many days does it say took place for God to create the heaven and earth, and how many hours does that equal?
Gen 2:4 doesn’t mention a specific number of days, but instead uses the common idiom “in the day”, which intentionally refers to a general, unspecified time period. The second part of the question isn’t any more applicable than the first, for the reason already mentioned above.
Another example would be, “during the flood of Noah’s day”. How many days was “Noah’s day”? How many hours does “Noah’s day” equal?
It is a nonsensical question akin to someone asking, “How many grapes in a bunch?” or “How many grains of salt in a dash?” The terms “bunch” and “dash” are intentionally vague to give a general idea without having to identify a specific number of grapes or grains of salt.
Likewise, a person could say, “Prohibition was in effect during my grandma’s day”. Wording it thusly gives the listener the general period of time (two or three generations ago) without the speaker having to provide the exact day/hour that prohibition officially began and ended in America.
Now please directly AND HONESTLY answer both of the questions waiting for you on the previous page before posting anything else on HN – as per the rules of engagement.
Okay, I’ve come up with my next “Must Answer” question, since it’s been a week with no answers or questions from you.
Proclaimer, DOES THE PLURAL WORD “DAYS” EVER REFER TO anything OTHER THAN LITERAL DAYS IN THE BIBLE? YES OR NO? AND IF YES, SHOW THE SCRIPTURE(S).
And my next “Must Answer” question will be…
Exodus 20:11… For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them…
Psalm 96:11… Let the heaven rejoice, let the earth be glad; let the sea resound, and all that is in it.
Acts 4:24… “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “you made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them…
Revelation 10:6… And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it…
Psalm 146:6… He is the Maker of heaven and earth, the sea, and everything in them…
Etc, etc, etc…
Proclaimer, why is the sea listed as separate from the earth in so many scriptures?
Okay, here’s where we are…
This is my previous Must Answer question from 3 weeks ago that still remains unanswered…
PLEASE PROVIDE YOUR SCRIPTURAL EVIDENCE THAT THE SUN, MOON AND STARS ALREADY EXISTED BEFORE GOD MADE THEM ON DAY FOUR… OR OPENLY ACNKOWLEDGE THAT NO SCRIPTURAL EVIDENCE FOR YOUR CLAIMS EXISTS.
Here’s my next oldest “Must Answer” question at the end of my answer to Proclaimer’s “Must Answer” question – from 2 weeks ago…
Proclaimer: Micah 7:11: ‘The day of building your walls will come, the day for extending your boundaries. In that day people will come to you from Assyria and the cities of Egypt.
IN MICAH 7:11, IS THE VERSE TALKING ABOUT A SINGLE 12 OR 24 HOUR DAY? YES OR NO.
Mike: I think it refers to Nehemiah rebuilding the walls of Jerusalem, so NO.
BUT WHAT IF THE MICAH PROPHECY HAD SAID THIS…
IN THE EVENING OF THE FIRST DAY OF REBUILDING YOUR WALLS, PEOPLE WILL COME TO YOU FROM ASSYRIA, AND BY THE MORNING OF THE SECOND DAY OF REBUILDING YOUR WALLS, THEY WILL BEGIN TO ARRIVE FROM THE CITIES OF EGYPT.NOW ARE WE TALKING ABOUT LITERAL DAYS?
And here’s my “Must Answer” question from last week…
PROCLAIMER, DOES THE PLURAL WORD “DAYS” EVER REFER TO ANYTHING OTHER THAN LITERAL DAYS IN THE BIBLE? YES OR NO? AND IF YES, SHOW THE SCRIPTURE(S).
And since a week has gone by again without a question or answer from Proclaimer, here is my newest “Must Answer” question…
Proclaimer, why is the earth always listed as separate from the sea in the Bible?
Pretender: In Genesis 2:4, how many days does it say took place for God to create the heaven and earth, and how many hours does that equal?
Mike: Gen 2:4 doesn’t mention a specific number of days, but instead uses the common idiom “in the day”, which intentionally refers to a general, unspecified time period. The second part of the question isn’t any more applicable than the first, for the reason already mentioned above.
Another example would be, “during the flood of Noah’s day”. How many days was “Noah’s day”? How many hours does “Noah’s day” equal?
It is a nonsensical question akin to someone asking, “How many grapes in a bunch?” or “How many grains of salt in a dash?” The terms “bunch” and “dash” are intentionally vague to give a general idea without having to identify a specific number of grapes or grains of salt.
Likewise, a person could say, “Prohibition was in effect during my grandma’s day”. Wording it thusly gives the listener the general period of time (two or three generations ago) without the speaker having to provide the exact day/hour that prohibition officially began and ended in America.
My MUST ANSWER question…
PROCLAIMER, DOES THE PLURAL WORD “DAYS” EVER REFER TO ANYTHING OTHER THAN LITERAL DAYS IN THE BIBLE? YES OR NO? AND IF YES, SHOW THE SCRIPTURE(S), including their clear and undeniable indication that the “days” in question are, without a doubt, not literal days.
@admin Would you please lock Proclaimer’s account until he fulfills the rules of this site regarding the Hot Seat Forum by directly answering the “Must Answer” question in the post directly above this one? Thank you.
Question
In Genesis 2:4, how many hours did it take for God to create the heaven and earth?
It is a nonsensical question akin to someone asking, “How many grapes in a bunch?” or “How many grains of salt in a dash?” The terms “bunch” and “dash” are intentionally vague to give a general idea without having to identify a specific number of grapes or grains of salt.
My question was as follows:
In Genesis 2:4, how many hours did it take for God to create the heaven and earth?
And despite it saying ‘day’ which you have been arguing forever is 24 hours, you now say it is nonsensical which I was going to say is not an answer because you have stated that ‘day’ is 24 hours and now you suddenly backtrack.
But I accept your answer because you have admitted it is nonsensical to state that the word ‘day’ is 24 hours in the creation event. The very point I was trying to get you to admit in the first place.
Thank you! I take this as a win and I am sure anyone reading this will too.
I will now take the first question after your answer and answer that then will follow up with my question.
Proclaimer: My question was as follows:
In Genesis 2:4, how many hours did it take for God to create the heaven and earth?
And despite it saying ‘day’ which you have been arguing forever is 24 hours…
Incorrect. What I’ve been arguing is that the Hebrew word “yowm” is used EXACTLY like the English word “day” is used. Its default meaning is a 24-hour period (or the 12-hour daylight portion thereof). But “yowm” is also used idiomatically, just like “day” is used.
For example, we can say, “back in my grandmother’s day” – an example that you have used many times, right?
Proclaimer: …you now say it is nonsensical which I was going to say is not an answer because you have stated that ‘day’ is 24 hours and now you suddenly backtrack.
Incorrect. What is nonsensical is asking someone how many hours comprise an IDIOMATIC day. So if I take your previous example (back in my grandmother’s day) and ask you how many hours are in “your grandmother’s day” – what would your answer be?
If you have any sense at all, you’d tell me that my question is nonsensical, because there’s no way to determine a number of hours that make up “my grandmother’s day”.
Proclaimer: But I accept your answer because you have admitted it is nonsensical to state that the word ‘day’ is 24 hours in the creation event. The very point I was trying to get you to admit in the first place.
Thank you! I take this as a win and I am sure anyone reading this will too.
Incorrect. I have stated no such thing, and you are intentionally telling a falsehood about me. What I’ve stated is that in Gen 2:4, the word “yowm” is used idiomatically, and therefore represents a general period of time and not an actual day – just like “back in my grandmother’s day” represents a general period of time and not an actual day.
And just as you can’t give me a number of hours that make up “your grandmother’s day”, I can’t give you a number of hours that make up the idiomatic day in Gen 2:4. And for someone to even ask such a question shows their ignorance.
Proclaimer: I will now take the first question after your answer and answer that then will follow up with my question.
Fantastic! The next question after my answer is in the third post after my answer. It is repeated 3 posts above this one too. Let me know if you can’t find it in this dog’s breakfast, and I’ll resend you the post number, or re-post it yet again so that it’s the very last post on this thread.
Mike admits again that ‘yowm’ can mean a period of time other than 24 hours
Incorrect. What I’ve been arguing is that the Hebrew word “yowm” is used EXACTLY like the English word “day” is used. Its default meaning is a 24-hour period (or the 12-hour daylight portion thereof). But “yowm” is also used idiomatically, just like “day” is used.
Mike: “But “yowm” is also used idiomatically, just like “day” is used.”
Amen! Yes you got the point. A day is not strictly 24 hours. A day for God is LIKE a thousand years and the days of creation started before humanity and even according to you, before the sun was created. Common sense aye.
Further, a day on earth at the moment is around 24 hours. A day on Mars is not 24 hours. A day in the past could have been different. That is the great thing about the universe. It is so vast that it has many examples of mathematics which comes from the mind of God. The universe show his intelligence and eternal nature.
PROCLAIMER, DOES THE PLURAL WORD “DAYS” EVER REFER TO ANYTHING OTHER THAN LITERAL DAYS IN THE BIBLE? YES OR NO? AND IF YES, SHOW THE SCRIPTURE(S), INCLUDING THEIR CLEAR AND UNDENIABLE INDICATION THAT THE “DAYS” IN QUESTION ARE, WITHOUT A DOUBT, NOT LITERAL DAYS.
I take it this is the question. I will look at this next when I have some time. Thanks.
Answer
PROCLAIMER, DOES THE PLURAL WORD “DAYS” EVER REFER TO ANYTHING OTHER THAN LITERAL DAYS IN THE BIBLE? YES OR NO? AND IF YES, SHOW THE SCRIPTURE(S), INCLUDING THEIR CLEAR AND UNDENIABLE INDICATION THAT THE “DAYS” IN QUESTION ARE, WITHOUT A DOUBT, NOT LITERAL DAYS.
Not sure. I could research it, but I honestly am not sure. But does Genesis use the plural form? After all, each creation day cannot be plural. so not sure why you are asking this.
Here is a verse that mentions ‘days’ and it could be referencing 24 hour periods. But it is clearly not specific. It is in reality communicating an undefined period of time or the time of stress which could be any amount of hours or days. Agree?
“Immediately after the distress of those days “`the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. ‘ “At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn.
My question:
How many hours is the seventh day of creation?
Mike, you know that most of the creation days are before the creation of man and you also believe the sun was created on the fourth day. Despite this, you religiously stick to these days being 24 hour periods which is very strange indeed. You seem to be missing something Mike. Especially considering that we are told that a thousand years to God is like a day and creation is God doing things in HIS time not ours. Regardless of your lack of logic and understanding here, my question is as follows;
How many hours is the seventh day? You obviously have to say 24 hours, but God rested on the seventh day, so if you say 24 hours, then you are saying that God is resting no more.
Mike: PROCLAIMER, DOES THE PLURAL WORD “DAYS” EVER REFER TO ANYTHING OTHER THAN LITERAL DAYS IN THE BIBLE? YES OR NO? AND IF YES, SHOW THE SCRIPTURE(S), INCLUDING THEIR CLEAR AND UNDENIABLE INDICATION THAT THE “DAYS” IN QUESTION ARE, WITHOUT A DOUBT, NOT LITERAL DAYS.
Proclaimer: Not sure. I could research it, but I honestly am not sure. But does Genesis use the plural form? After all, each creation day cannot be plural. so not sure why you are asking this.
The correct answer is no.
1. When “day” is used with a number in the Bible, it is always a literal day.
2. When “day” is used with morning and/or evening in the Bible, it is always a literal day.
3. When the plural form “days” is used in the Bible, they are always literal days.
And here’s why I asked the question…
Exodus 20:9-11… Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day…you must not do any work… For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth and the sea and all that is in them, but on the seventh day He rested.
Exodus 31:15-17… For six days work may be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of complete rest… for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, but on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.
So the Bible, in reference to the days of creation, contains every signifier there can be to show that the days were literal – and then some. Consider…
1. The days are accompanied by numbers = literal days.
2. The days contain a single evening and morning = literal days.
3. The two passages above use the plural word days = literal days.
4. And in the two passages above, Yahweh explicitly EQUATED the six days of creation with the six days that the Israelites were to work before taking a day off.
Proclaimer, you answered my question with, “I am honestly not sure.”
Well I assure you that any time in the Bible – and in the entire history of the world – that the plural word “days” is used, it always, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, refers to literal days. So now that you know this to be a fact that you can’t possibly refute, you have no HONEST choice but to accept that the six days (plural) mentioned by Yahweh in the two passages above refer to six literal days… meaning that the heaven, the earth, the sea, and everything in them was created in six literal days.
There exists no valid argument to the contrary. You can argue that the Bible (and Yahweh) were wrong – but you can’t possibly argue that the Bible doesn’t clearly teach that our world and everything in it was created over a period of six literal days. Because it certainly does.
Proclaimer: How many hours is the seventh day? You obviously have to say 24 hours, but God rested on the seventh day, so if you say 24 hours, then you are saying that God is resting no more. So again
How many hours is the seventh day of creation?
The seventh day is also a literal 24-hour day. We know this because it is the word “day” accompanied by a number, and because, just like God EQUATED the six days of creation with the six days the Israelites were to work, He also EQUATED the one day they are to rest with the one day God rested.
Proclaimer: …if you say 24 hours, then you are saying that God is resting no more.
John 5:16-17… Now because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jews began to persecute Him. But Jesus answered them, “To this very day My Father is at His work, and I too am working.”
So again, you always have the option of saying the Bible is wrong – or that for some odd reason, the words in the Bible don’t really mean what they clearly say… but you cannot HONESTLY argue that the Bible doesn’t actually say these things that I’m showing you. Because it most certainly does say them in very straightforward language that is easy to understand.
Proclaimer: Here is a verse that mentions ‘days’ and it could be referencing 24 hour periods. But it is clearly not specific.
The plural word “days” – in and of itself – shows that it is literal days.
Proclaimer: It is in reality communicating an undefined period of time or the time of stress which could be any amount of hours or days. Agree?
Agreed… it is communicating an undefined period of time – with an unspecified number of days and hours. But the point to remember is that while the number of days and hours are unspecified, they are indeed literal hours making up literal days. We just don’t know the total number of literal days and literal hours that make up this unspecified time period.
It is the same here…
Matthew 24:37-38… As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark.
The exact number of days is undefined in both cases – but we know they are literal days.
Proclaimer: “Immediately after the distress of those days “`the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. ‘ “At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn.
This verse you quoted will be the basis for my next “Must Answer” question. I will ask it in my next post.
Proclaimer: “Immediately after the distress of those days “`the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. ‘ “At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn.
You have quoted both Isaiah and our Lord Jesus himself in the above scripture. Both of them identify the light of the moon as its own light (not reflected light from the sun). This aligns with many scriptures, including Genesis 1:16 – “God made two great lights.”
Both of these Holy Spirit-inspired servants of God also claim that the stars will fall from heaven. (That they will fall to the earth is specified in Revelation 6:13.)
My “Must Answer” question for you…
According to the Isaiah, Jesus, and the Bible in general, the moon is its own light and shines its own light. And it is not only possible, but prophesied, that the stars will fall from heaven to the earth.
Proclaimer, is it possible in your worldview for the moon to be its own light source – and for the stars to fall from heaven to the earth? Yes or No?
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