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Hi Carmel thanks for your lengthy reply to my post.
You:
Gadam, I ASKED YOU: Are you in the position to reveal Abraham’s birth and his childhood from THE JEWISH LITERATURE?
Isaac is the second less mysterious, AS A FIRSTBORN, ALWAYS KEEP IN MIND BY GOD’S MYSTERIOUS INTERVENTION, as reading Genesis hereunder, always through THE LIGHT from the Holy Spirit, we become aware that Isaac is more the SON OF GOD than the son of Abraham, considering that both Sarah and Abraham were useless regarding sex, who represents THE HOLY GHOST, the SOUL element of the eternal covenant, the fact that sex was not involved.
Genesis 21:1 And the Lord visited Sara, as he had promised: and fulfilled what he had spoken. 2And she conceived and bore a son in her old age, (ALL IN ONE MOMENT) at the time that God had foretold her. 3And Abraham called the name of his son, WHOM SARA BORN HIM, Isaac. 6 And Sara said:
God hath made a laughter for me:
whosoever shall hear of it will laugh with me. 7And again she said: Who would believe that Abraham should hear that Sara gave suckTO A SON, whom SHE bore to him in HIS old age.
Jacob’s birth is the least mysterious, and we have more detail regarding his conception and birth, which it is evidently clear that Jacob represents THE HUMAN BODY OF JESUS, the SON OF MAN, “THE WORD” spoken of God made flesh.
THE FLESH element of the eternal covenant the fact that JACOB is the actual father of the twelve tribes of ISRAEL.
Malach 1:2 I have loved you, saith the Lord: and you have said: Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau brother to Jacob, saith the Lord, and
I have loved Jacob, (WHY? What is special about Jacob?)
3But have hated Esau?Isaiah:44:1 AND now hear, O Jacob, my servant, and Israel whom I have chosen.
Now I ask you:
who is Jacob, and who is Israel?
are they TWO or ONE?TO ME ISRAEL IS ONLY A NAME, A SPIRITUAL NAME OF GOD!
JACOB IS THE MAN BORN IN FLESH OF ISAAC BY GOD’S INTERVENTION THROUGH SEX! THE ONLY ONE THAT WE ARE SURE THAT HE WAS BORN THROUGH SEX!
Me: Sorry I don’t see anything mysterious in these three births of Patriarchs unless you imagine. They three were chosen by God. God blessed Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to multiply and be blessed to all generations.
I don’t agree with your strange ideas on their births to compare with Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It is purely your imagination which I can’t buy.
Sorry no further theories of yours please.
Adam……I completely agree with you , it is his own, trinitarian, ideology, taught to him by the fallen Catholic and Protestant churches, over many years. I personally never heard of so many made up teachings in my life then what Carmel says. He seems to not even quote a single scripture without changing or adding thoughts not even mentioned in the actual texts he is talking about.
Thank God there is a few here that know Jesus did not preexist as an actual being before he was born on this earth. We preach Jesus as a real human being coming in the flesh exactly as we did. We don’t try to make him something other then a real flesh and bone human being, Exactly as we are, even though God the Father has highly exalted him. We still see him as our human king and human brother, under the authority of his God and Our God his father and our Father, just as we are.
we believe Jesus when he said, “this is eternal life, that they might know you Father, the “ONLY” TRUE” GOD”
We as Jesus did, don’t try to make “other Gods”. We believe in “Only” ONE true God, and so did and does Jesus. Blessed are those who understand this.
peace and love to you and yours Adam………gene
The son of “man”, Jesus was not and is not, the God that was “IN” him.
Correct.
Now that this is sorted, focus on the Word.
The Word was with God, was divine, became flesh, and was beheld as the Son of God for our eyes to see and ears to hear.
He was with God in the beginning, emptied himself, came in the flesh, was obedient to God, died, rose again and took the righteous, and is at the right-hand of God in the glory that he had with him before the cosmos. He is the Son and through him, many sons will be lifted on high.
It’s a pity (for you) that you do not show the same respect for scriptures about Jesus as you do about God.
The Son of Man Must Be Lifted Up
27 “Now is my soul troubled. And what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? But for this purpose I have come to this hour. 28 Father, glorify your name.” Then a voice came from heaven: “I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again.” 29 The crowd that stood there and heard it said that it had thundered. Others said, “An angel has spoken to him.” 30 Jesus answered, “This voice has come for your sake, not mine. 31 Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out. 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” 33 He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die. 34 So the crowd answered him, “We have heard from the Law that the Christ remains forever. How can you say that the Son of Man must be lifted up? Who is this Son of Man?” 35 So Jesus said to them, “The light is among you for a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you. The one who walks in the darkness does not know where he is going. 36 While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light.”
The Unbelief of the People
When Jesus had said these things, he departed and hid himself from them. 37 Though he had done so many signs before them, they still did not believe in him, 38 so that the word spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled:
“Lord, who has believed what he heard from us,
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”
39 Therefore they could not believe. For again Isaiah said,40 “He has blinded their eyes
and hardened their heart,
lest they see with their eyes,
and understand with their heart, and turn,
and I would heal them.”
41 Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him. 42 Nevertheless, many even of the authorities believed in him, but for fear of the Pharisees they did not confess it, so that they would not be put out of the synagogue; 43 for they loved the glory that comes from man more than the glory that comes from God.Jesus Came to Save the World
44 And Jesus cried out and said, “Whoever believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me. 45 And whoever sees me sees him who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness. 47 If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. 49 For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me.”
The Word was WITH God.
He came in the flesh.
He is back in the glory he had with God before the cosmos.
He will bring many sons into glory.
Proclaimer…… God ‘s prophesied word became true , it was the flesh man Jesus Christ.
God and his word, is one and the same thing , just as our words and us are the same thing. Your belief that God’s word became some one different then God is not true.
A word, any word , is never flesh, a word can only come to be true or not true , the prophesied word of God became true, it was the flesh man Jesus Christ.
How foolish to think an actual word can itself become Flesh. Words are spirit not flesh.peace and love to you and yours…….gene
Again you get mixed up between nature / characteristics vs a person or identity.
First off, a being can and and are named after attributes like logos, love, light, etc. Let’s look at a few names to make this easy for you. I did a quick search and haven’t verified these. But suffice to say, my point is made.
- Boanerges – Sons of Thunder;
- Michael – Who is like God;
- God changed Abram’s name, meaning “high father,” to “Abraham,” meaning “father of a multitude”
- God changed Jacob’s name, which meant “supplanter,” to “Israel,” meaning “having power with God”.
So when can we tell if an attribute or a person is being referred to? Context of course. It is not hard. Further, we have the definite article to denote a person as opposed to an attribute.
Now for the bit that debunks your view.
- The Word was WITH God. An attribute is within a person’s character or nature. Not with.
- The Word in John 1:1 is preceded with the definite article, (The Word).
- The Word is identified as Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh.
There you have it. I now leave you to reject this truth in scripture.
Thank you.
Hi Gene,
YOU: Proclaimer…… God ‘s prophesied word became TRUE ,
it was the flesh man Jesus.
ME: John1:1 IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD, AND
THE WORD WAS GOD!
John 1:14 AND THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH
, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,)
full of grace and TRUTH.
You: Your belief that God’s word became some one
different then God is not true.
John 14:9…..Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also. ….
John 10:30 I and the Father are one.
A word, any word , is never flesh,
Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts: nor your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9For as the heavens are exalted above the earth, so are my ways exalted above your ways, and my thoughts above your thoughts.
10And as the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and return no more thither, but soak the earth, and water it, and make it to spring, and give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11So shall MY WORD be, which shall go forth from my mouth: it shall not return to me void,
but it shall do WHATSOEVER I PLEASE,
and shall prosper in the things for which I sent it.
John 1:14 AND THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH
You: How foolish to think an actual word can
itself become Flesh.
God and his word, are one and the same thing ,
ME: SPIRIT!
You: just as our words and us are the same thing.
FLESH???
You: Words are spirit, not flesh.
Colossians 1:16…..all things were created
by him ( SPIRIT) and in him.( FLESH)
John6:63 It is the SPIRIT that quickeneth: the FLESH profiteth nothing.
The words that I have spoken to you, are SPIRIT and life.
JESUS BY His own SPIRIT was born again from the dead
IN HIS FLESH!
The man born again! John3:3
JESUS AS A SPIRIT GAVE LIFE TO HIS FLESH!
THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE, originally spiritually dead, was born again from the dead, ALL AUTHENTIC BROTHERS
IN JESUS’FLESH
ON HIS RESURRECTION!
1 Peter 1:3Blessed be THE God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy hath regenerated us unto a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4Unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that can not fade, reserved in heaven for you, 5Who, by the power of God, are kept by faith unto salvation, ready to be revealed in the last time.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
If Jesus Christ was not the literal firstborn of all creation, then this verse is impossible.
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
Do I hear an amen to this verse. So far no one is saying amen to these verses in the New Testament. I guess some of you have issues with some verses in the New Testament.
Proclaimer……Not really, you see Jesus was the “firstborn from the dead”. That is not saying he was the firstborn being of all creation, now is it? Jesus Christ was the firstborn of “many” brethren by the resurrection from the dead, we are told. Now seeing You have moved Jesus’ identity away from yourself, So tell us what part of him you have, seeing you have made him completely different then you are?
Jesus saying he was the “Son of Man” around 80 times, means nothing to you it seems. We must while in this flesh, take to ourselves his life now, that is what is meant By “eating his flesh and drinking his blood” or more simpler , by taking on his life, he lived in his flesh and blood existence. God the Father expects no less of us, then he expected of the flesh “Son of Man”, Jesus Christ our “bother”. We must drink from the same cup he drank, just as the disciples did.Let’s not kid ourselves, as he was so must we be, or we in no wise will enter into the kingdom of God. Just as he said……“whosoever overcome I will grant to be in my kingdom, “EVEN”. as I have over come and am sit down in my FATHERS KINGDOM .
peace and love you and yours Proclaimer………..gene
Hi Gene,
And in harmony with what you wrote:‘
Who is the one who overcomes the world but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? This is the one who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with water only but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies , because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify, the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar because he has not believed in the testimony God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life.; he who does not have the Son does not have the life.
1 Jn 5.5f
only by being joined with the Son in true rebirth do we have eternal life.
seek ye first the kingdom and everything else will be added to you.
“She will bear a son and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save His people from their sins” Matt 1.21
Then after the Anointing at the Jordan he is called Jesus Christ-The anointed man, Son of man through Mary, Son of God by rebirth from above.
The imaginations of men have read the prophetic word wrongly and claim that this man preexisted. The Scriptures speak primarily of the Spirit and not the human vessels but vain men highlight the work of men.
Rejecting the light of truth
Read the opening post in this topic. It explains something that some have spent 958 pages worth of posts to try and deny. Yet, the following scripture that is mentioned remains stubbornly present like a thorn in the side of such deniers.
For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me; and this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up at the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Further, believers also know that JESUS is with the Father in the glory that he had with him before the cosmos. This is eternal life…..
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
The truth changes not. You either align with it or go against it. Everyone chooses to accept the truth or resist it. Let every man decide for himself what he does with the light of truth. It either illuminates a man or he runs from the illumination toward the darkness wherein lies that which is not of God.
Do you not understand yet that the Spirit of anointing
was in the beginning with God and was God?You seem stuck on the the idea it is talking about a man.
Nick……Yes, the Spirit i.e. (word) of God, was with God and was God, just as a man and his words are one and the same thing, so it is with God. Jesus was never With God in the beginning as a living being, nor was he ever God. He was what God had in mind for all his human creation, from the beginning of his earthly creation. That is the absolute truth brother.
The Holy Spirit is “THE WORD OF GOD”, just as Jesus himself said,…..> “whosoever has ears to hear, let him hear what “THE’, SPIRIT IS SAYING”. Notice, he did not say what I am saying, but what the “the Spirit is saying”. The Spirit of God speaks, THE “WORD’S ” OF GOD”. And because God is Spirit, his words are ALSO SPIRIT, GOD THE FATHER, can speak through whoever or whatever HE wants to, yes, even an ass, as in the case of Balaam, that wicked prophet. GOD AND HIS WORD ARE ONE AND THE SAME THING.
peace and love to you and yours Nick………gene
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