- This topic has 19,164 replies, 120 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 1 month ago by
.
- Posts
My point about Jesus’s Father and your Father, is that you was born from your Father and your a human. Jesus was born of His Father and He’s a God. God bless.
Yes good point. He partook of our nature through a process which was like our coming into this world, except of course Jesus has more in common with Adam in that sense than us who are the offspring. Likewise for the new birth from above. He came from God initially, whist we are born again after the natural birth.
Yes there are remarkable differences between Jesus and us, but he calls us brethren and we will be like him. In short, he is the prototype son and we are sons through him. Amazing that we have such a high calling in God that we are called sons.
Hi T8
Yes it is a high calling in God that we are called sons. Thank God He choose us His Firstfruits.
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who[a] do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be [b]carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the [c]carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies [d]through His Spirit who dwells in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba,[e]Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of [f]corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession [g]for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:
“For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. God bless you T8
Thanks Anthony. I am too tired to read this right now, I need to get some sleep. Will certainly read this when I return. I really feel there is something in there for me to see. Blessings.
Also this made me laugh because it was the perfect reaction to Nick’s accusations and false witness:
Nick,
Not sure how you were able to imply anything contrary to baptism from what I wrote, but your antagonism is noted.
He is like this with everyone. His hand is against everyone and everyone is against him.
This is what we have been saying all along and yet some who profess to be Believers still do not believe.
John 16:28
I came from the Father and entered the world; now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father.”John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven, the Son of Man.Hi Edj and T8,
You two forgot to state these verses:
Young’s Literal Translation
Romans 4:17 who is father of us all (according as it hath been written — ‘A father of many nations I have set thee,’) before Him whom he did believe — God, who is quickening the dead, and IS CALLING THE THINGS THAT BE NOT AS BEING.Young’s Literal Translation
Rev 13:8 And bow before it shall all who are dwelling upon the land, whose names have not been written in the scroll of the life of the LAMB SLAIN FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD;John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.
.Me: So in God’s mind, the Messiah was both slain and glorified before he and all were created.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/16-28.htm
John 16:28 (bible hub) I came forth from the Father and have come into the world. AGAIN I leave the world and go unto the Father.
Me:T8 you have left out the word “AGAIN”. A better translation would be:
Young’s Literal Translation
John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and have come to the world; AGAIN I leave the world, and go on unto the Father.’Me: What is happening in John 3:13 below has already happened in God mind.
Also, you need to finish up John 3:13:
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, EVEN THE SON OF MAN WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.
Me: So, connecting the dots in John 3:13 we have:
In God’s mind, Christ had already been crucified and resurrected from the dead and had ascended into heaven where he was glorified and in heaven where he is when Christ made the statement in John 3:13. He does this “AGAIN” in our reality “apart from calling things which are not as if they were” as John 16:28 indicates
T8…..we also have come from the Father and have came into the world.
Rom 8:29-30……For them who he (God) did “foreknow” he (God) also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the first born among “many” brethern. 30, moreover whom he (God) did predestinate, the he also justified: and whom he (God) justified he (God) also glorified.
God the father did foreknow us also before we were even born, just as he know Jesus before he was ever born, Jesus’ Glory with the father was a “predestined” glory he had with the Father God before he ever existed, the same with us also.
Why do you people continue trying to seperate Jesus from the rest of humanity, from his brothers and sisters, by trying to make him be a live person, before his birth on this earth like the rest of us.
There is no record of a preexisting Jesus anywhere in scripture, if there is why not post it, show us some activity of some kind, to prove your point, I have never seen any. Don’t you think it about time you produced you evidence of somekind of activity.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Hi All,
Christ was worshiped as God because all the events that happened in his life on earth had happened already before he was here.
A son always comes after a Father. Christ is the only Son of God directly from God. The rest of mankind are adopted through Christ.
Sorry Gene.
We will not be in the glory we had with the Father before the world begun unless we preexisted.
We did not come from Heaven.
Are you asserting that we came from the Father then entered the world and one day will leave the world and go back to the Father?
If you deny this of Jesus, then obviously you deny it about us, but if you agree that the scriptures we quote are correct, then to hold your view, you have to believe the same for us. But in reality you do not believe this about us and about Jesus Christ.
You simply do not believe the scriptures regarding Jesus Christ. You do not believe that he had glory with the Father and is back in that glory and you do not believe that he was the messiah when in the City of David. Another Jesus perhaps?
Hi TC,
YOU:
Christ was worshiped as God because all the events that happened in his life on earth had happened already before he was here.
A son always comes after a Father. Christ is the only Son of God directly from God. The rest of mankind are adopted through Christ.
ME: What it sounds like from you TC is that you fully deny that Jesus is actually the firstborn of the dead of many brethren. You also sound like you are in denial that Jesus is an heir of God and I am an heir of God, a JOINT heir with Christ.
Significant passages that you don’t seem to bother taking any meaning out of, more like just having no regard for them whatsoever.
You also disregard the fact that he is a heavenly man the Last Adam, and I am to become the SAME.
We have access to be an heir, access to sonship of God through Christ paying the penalty of sin which is death, but this doesn’t mean that he as a Son is different than his brethren being made Sons. “All those who are led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God.”
Jesus died paying the penalty for my sins, so my sins are no longer counted for death. All get to be raised from the dead whether they have faith or not.
The purpose of Christ is to lead us to have faith in the One True God.
God sent Christ the anointed man of the seed of Abraham and David into the world to preach God’s Gospel and to fulfill God’s Gospel, to lead us into believing in Him, the One True God.
Believing that Jesus was a man who God raised from the dead, is to give us hope that we too as a man like him, will also be raised from the dead.
We are to believe that through God’s Spirit Jesus was called to righteousness not missing a mark, even through being tested on the cross Jesus did not follow his own will, but obeyed God.
God also wants us to obey Him as Jesus did, to walk perfectly in His ways.
When I am raised from the dead, in order to walk as Jesus did perfectly in God’s ways, I too need the same measure of the Spirit that he received from God.
t8,
Why do you just keep ignoring scriptures?
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
t8, the glory Jesus received was becoming the firstborn of the dead of many brethren, he was raised up receiving eternal life. Believing that Jesus was raised from the dead, is our hope that we will be raised like him, in glory, incorruptible, becoming a heavenly man as he is.
If Jesus is the firstborn of the dead of many brethren, than the word of God is TRUE. That word of God was that God had promised before the world was eternal life.
You really think that Jesus was ignorant of God’s promise of that which he was going to receive upon his death? Was he ignorant of Isaiah 53, where he would be wounded for our transgressions and God would raise him up and give him a portion with the great? You think that Jesus thought God was a liar who did not ESTABLISH the END FROM the beginning?
WAS Jesus BLIND t8, and when he was anointed receiving the Gospel of God to preach it, he didn’t actually SEE what it was he was preaching about? Jesus didn’t see the glory of eternal life that had been DECLARED by His Father before the world was?
Before Jesus spoke of him receiving the glory, he was spoke directly of that glory and said what it was. You can’t even bring back to back scriptures together to establish truth, you just pick and choose passages taking them out of their context.
1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Jesus is the firstborn of the dead of many brethren, first man to receive eternal life, and he is granted to give eternal life to all those that God gives him, THAT is HIS GLORY. He saw the END that God had declared FROM the beginning.
Titus 1:2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,
I don’t ignore scriptures. There is not one scripture I disagree with that I’m aware of. I would ask the same question of you because certainly you ignore or disagree with these.
Today in the City of David a Savior has been born to you. He is Christ the Lord…
The Son is the image of the invisible God,the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.
Hi Jodi,
YOU claim I made the statement below.
Christ was worshiped as God because all the events that happened in his life on earth had happened already before he was here.Me: I made no such statement. I had always maintained that CHRIST IN THE MIND and HEART OF GOD existed as the SON OF GOD from eternity as if he always had. The future is real to God. Christ is worshiped as God because he is the exact image of God in his spirit mind. This is the WORD OF GOD. Add the humanity of Christ and you have the Son of God.
Romans 8:17 …and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
You quoted me: A son always comes after a Father. Christ is the only Son of God directly from God. The rest of mankind are adopted through Christ.
You: What it sounds like from you TC is that you fully deny that Jesus is actually the firstborn of the dead of many brethren. You also sound like you are in denial that Jesus is an heir of God and I am an heir of God, a JOINT heir with Christ.
Me: No, I deny none of this. You twist my words. Thanks for the scriptures to back you up—none can. I have said just the opposite of what you are spinning.
https://biblehub.com/greek/3439.htm
3439 monogenḗs (from 3411 /misthōtós, “one-and-only” and 1085 /génos, “offspring, stock”) – properly, one-and-only; “one of a kind” – literally, “one (monos) of a class, genos” (the only of its kind).John 3:18 (NIV) Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only (3439) Son.
Me: the translation in John 3:18 should be “one and only” and not “only begotten”. “Only begotten adds in the translators’ biases.
NET Bible
1 peter 1:23 You have been born anew, not from perishable but from imperishable seed, through the living and enduring WORD OF GODJohn 7:He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly (inner self) shall flow rivers of living water.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water (me: of the heart and inner self of the humanity of Christ) and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Me: I have shown you these verses and others like them many times in context. When we are born of the water when we are baptized and buried with the humanity of Christ. We are then risen from the dead with him into a new life. In other words, we are born of the spirit and water in John 3. We become sons of God at the baptism of the holy sprit through Christ. No where in the OT do you find the term “sons of God” pertaining to men. At our deaths, we become the sons of God fully,
Jodi, I am not denying Christ or God. I am denying your and Gene’s twisted lying minds. Because I deny you, I do not deny Christ.
Hi Jodi,
Hi Jodi,
You: Significant passages that you don’t seem to bother taking any meaning out of, more like just having no regard for them whatsoever.
You also disregard the fact that he is a heavenly man the Last Adam, and I am to become the SAME.
Me; Good luck to you if you are going to remain a man but in a glorified state On the other hand, I look forward to become a son of God with a new body.You: We have access to be an heir, access to sonship of God through Christ paying the penalty of sin which is death, but this doesn’t mean that he as a Son is different than his brethren being made Sons. “All those who are led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God.”
Me: Gene, we become like him, not he becomes like us. When we are led by the spirit, we are led by the spirit with the heart and mind of Christ in it.
Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.You: Jesus died paying the penalty for my sins, so my sins are no longer counted for death. All get to be raised from the dead whether they have faith or not.
The purpose of Christ is to lead us to have faith in the One True God. God sent Christ the anointed man of the seed of Abraham and David into the world to preach God’s Gospel and to fulfill God’s Gospel, to lead us into believing in Him, the One True God. Believing that Jesus was a man who God raised from the dead, is to give us hope that we too as a man like him, will also be raised from the dead. We are to believe that through God’s Spirit Jesus was called to righteousness not missing a mark, even through being tested on the cross Jesus did not follow his own will, but obeyed God. God also wants us to obey Him as Jesus did, to walk perfectly in His ways.
When I am raised from the dead, in order to walk as Jesus did perfectly in God’s ways, I too need the same measure of the Spirit that he received from God.Me: No place does it say we become sons of a man but Rather we become sons of God.
Hi Jodi,
Matt 17:1 (NKJV) Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; 2 and He was transfigured (3339) before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. 3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. 4 Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, [a]let us make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” … 9 Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the VISION to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead.”
Me: This is a VISION of what is to occur of Christ, Moses , Elijah of what our bodies will be like at the resurrection of our bodies. .
Strong’s Concordance
3339. metamorphoó
to transform
Original Word: μεταμορφόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: metamorphoó
Phonetic Spelling: (met-am-or-fo’-o)
Definition: to transform
Usage: I transform, transfigure.
HELPS Word-studies
3339 metamorphóō (from 3326 /metá, “change after being with” and 3445 /morphóō, “changing form in keeping with inner reality”) – properly, transformed after being with; transfigured.
[3339 (metamorphóō) is the root of the English terms “metamorphosis” and “metamorphize.”]
met•a•mor•pho•sis
/ˌmedəˈmôrfəsəs/
noun
1. (in an insect or amphibian) the process of transformation from an immature form to an adult form in two or more distinct stages.
o a change of the form or nature of a thing or person into a completely different one, by natural or supernatural means.Me: could an ordinary man have transform himself like the Messiah in Matt 17:2?
This was a vision of what would occur at the resurrection of the body into a new body.
A Glorious Body.1 Cor 15:35 (NKJV) But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?” 36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. 37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain—perhaps wheat or some other grain. 38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.
Matt 9:17 Nor do they put new wine into old wineskins, or else the wineskins [f]break, the wine is spilled, and the wineskins are ruined. But they put new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved.”
Me: The body that the saints will receive are bodies that reflect their inner characters. It is the body of the seed of the holy spirit in them, not the seed of the spirit that pervades the animal kingdom that will die. We receive need wine in our spirit minds and a new wineskin to hold it.
Luke 21:18 (NKJV) But not a hair of your head shall be lost.
Me: Our old bodies die, but we inherit new bodies in the spiritual image of the old
About the Son
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities.
All things were created through Him and for Him.
He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.…He as ascended to where he was before in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos
John 6:59-62
This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”
Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!
John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.
He as ascended to where he was before in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos
John 6:59-62
This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”
Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!
John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.
Yes T8 this is the truth.
For God so loved the world, that HE GAVE his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
1Cor.10
[1] Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
[2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
[3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
[4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.God is love
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
