- This topic has 19,164 replies, 120 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 2 months ago by
.
- Posts
Hi Jodi,
And you think the man Jesus, still dwells in an earthly body, bloodless, torn and dependant on earthly support?
Is he who removed pain still troubled by his painful injuries?
Hi TC,
Ps 51.5
Behold I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me.
This speaks of the writer’s mother, not the writer.
25.4
How then can a man be just with God?
Or how can he be clean who is born of woman?
It speaks of the inheritance of all sons of Adam.
Hi Jodi,
You: You asked, “John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
How was the Word which is God, made flesh?”
The Word was Eternal Life, which God is eternal life.
The Word of God given in a promise, that a man would bring eternal life, that Word became flesh when Jesus was anointed, as it is through Christ we have eternal life. Does it make sense to you that Jesus pre-existed as some powerful being but then that powerful being became flesh and had no power of his own?Me: The word of God is the expressed image of God and thus is spirit. The Word or spirit of God was in Christ and was the spirit mind of Christ and became one with his human mind of the seed of David. Thus Christ is the spirit image of the mind of God (the Word) and the human seed of David in mind and spirit bonded as one.. Christ is the image of God in spirit and in body.
You: First acknowledge TC the Word that was made flesh, that flesh represented Jesus, I am sure we can at least agree to that.
Me: The word cannot be made flesh. Flesh cannot be made spirit. It is the other way around; the form of the flesh is the basis for the spirit.
1 Cor 15;46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
Me: The Word became “one with flesh”. That is a similar rendering that Adam and Eve became one flesh. They did not become Siamese twins joined at the hip but one in spirit. Chris had only one spirit in him, of the Word or holy spirit.
You: But can we agree that Jesus did in fact say clearly that he could do nothing of himself, the words he spoke were not His but YHWH’s, that everything he did was through an anointed power, not his own power, but power that he was using through YHWH? The flesh could do nothing of itself, it had been anointed with God’s Spirit and was doing work through YHWH’s powers, the flesh had NO POWER of it’s own.
Me: Yes, the spirit mind in Christ was the Word or exact image of the God’s mind and thus was God in the man Christ (2 Cor 5:19). Christ’s body and humanity was of the seed of David. All together they are the son of God (Christ was created supernaturally in the womb of Mary of the seed of David.
Hi Jodi:
You: Does it make sense to you that Jesus pre-existed as some powerful being but then that powerful being became flesh and had no power of his own?
Me: No it doesn’t. I never said that. I said that the Word that existed eternally became one with flesh. God does not change. The Word from heaven that became one and the same with the Word in Christ is one and the same. The Word is how God expresses himself in whatever mode.
You: YHWH exists with Powers, He is the only true God because He is the only God that exists with powers. His Word is powerful, because He is powerful, that which He speaks is fulfilled. YHWH said let there be light and so there was light. YHWH’s word to Isaiah was that a servant would be anointed and be given gifts of His Spirit, the Spirit of wisdom, the Spirit of understanding and knowledge. This was YHWH’s words that came into existence, no longer a promise in His Word, but made flesh.
Me: YHWH’s words are spirit and come from YHWH but is not YHWH. YHWH expresses his words through the “Word”.
You: Anthony wants to say that Jesus pre-existed as wisdom, but yet when he was on earth he needed the Spirit of Wisdom to be given to him. If you think that Jesus pre-existed as some being representing Word with power, or representing Wisdom with power, and that being was to become flesh, but then that flesh could do nothing of itself, where does that leave you? How does that make any sense?
Me: No: The Word, not Christ existed from eternity. The Word is the expression of God and is God (John 1:1). He is the light (John 1:4). This expression is the mind and spirit of God in Christ…
John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen (perceived) him.
…and with the body of Christ.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
New American Standard Bible
Matt 28:18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.Me: God is mind and spirit. His Word is the expression of that mind and spirit that we can hear and see. So God’s thoughts are of his mind and is God. The Word is the expression or image of those thoughts and is the same God. God’s Word was in Christ. Christ is the Word in him combined with the seed of David in mind and spirit. All became the Word of God.
You: Jesus did nothing of himself, everything was done through YHWH. I am suppose to believe that the Spirit of Wisdom became an ignorant baby who had to grow and learn and needed YHWH’s Spirit to cause him to speak YHWH’s words with authority?
Me: Christ did nothing of himself because he was “work in progress” to become the Word.
Hi Jodi:
Me: Christ did nothing of himself proves that the Word in him was YHWH. Christ expressed himself as a cloud, a burning bush, melchizedek, etc. The body of Christ was God’s permanent body.
New American Standard Bible
Col 2:9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,You: YHWH’s Word was that a servant would be called to righteousness, he would be sent out to heal the sick, to be a prophet showing signs and miracles and to speak YHWH’s words declaring YHWH’s kingdom. Christ existed in YHWH’s Word, before YHWH even made the earth. YHWH’s Word was fulfilled, it went from being YHWH’s word to existing in the flesh of the man Jesus.
Me: YHWH doesn’t die. The Word in Christ is YHWH’s mind expressed through the holy spirit and is YHWH. God expressed himself as Christ of the flesh and seed of David (YHWH in bodily form).
You: Who dwelt among the people? A Son of Man performing miracles and speaking YHWH’s words that is who. Who dwelt among the people? A Son of Man that said he could do nothing of himself that is who. Who dwelt among the people? The Christ who would bring eternal life to mankind, that’s who. You don’t seem to acknowledge this TC, neither you or Anthony. If you did acknowledge it you would realize your understanding of John’s words are foolish they make no sense. Now if Jesus on his own had powerful wisdom and spoke truth, and spoke words that produced miracles for the people, then the truth would seem like he had them because that was who he was before. But the truth is he had a weak mortal body and a mind and a will of a man, but he was given God’s Spirit so that he could overcome.
Me: This is gross arrogance.
Luke 17: 20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Me: I find anyone who says that Christ was a mere man that sinned and had to be baptized with the baptism of John to be seriously lacking.
New American Standard Bible
Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, (Master)…
Phil 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Me: Christ was not just one of the boys.
You: He grew as a boy with wisdom and found favor with God. Then God anointed him, making God’s Word fulfilled, the Word that God had given to Isaiah of which the anointed Jesus quoted. John 1 is referencing the Christ, not a pre-existing being, or the infant, not the 12 year old boy who we are told worried his parents when they had to spend 3 days looking for him, and then afterward we are told he was obedient to them following them to Nazareth like he was suppose to in the first place. John 1 is speaking of the anointed man. The Word became flesh, when Jesus was anointed fulfilling the Word that YHWH had spoken to the prophets, fulfilling His Word that existed before He made the world. This word, this promise of which God created the earth through and for, was for a man to be anointed, perfected, and then given eternal life, also bringing eternal life to all of mankind.
Me:
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Both God and his Word are God. Both were before the creation of the worlds.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Me: The Word is not just some promise. The Word is God revealed and is God.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Me: The Word became Christ, or the expression of God in bodily form.
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Me: Christ was not weak in the flesh as we are with death and sin in it.
Hi Jodi and Gene
Father God prepared His body, not you ,not me, not Adam or Moses or David or Mary.
Romans 8:3
For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh.Notice that Christ was sent by His Father God in the likeness of sinful flesh but not in the likeness of the sinful nature. Christ did not have the sinful nature that all humans are born with which we have inherited from the first Adam. Christ, who is the image of invisible Father God, had a righteous holy nature, and always has had, and this is why He was able to resist the temptations of the devil and remained sinless. However, in order to be our Saviour, it was necessary for Christ to be clothed with similar, but not the same, flesh as fallen humanity in order to be tempted in every way as we humans are all tempted, yet He was without sin (Hebrews 4:15).
Since this is true, then why does the genealogy of Jesus Christ, as given in Luke, go the whole way back to the first Adam and the Bible also refers to Jesus Christ as the ‘son of David’? This is a valid question, but before we answer it, we need to first understand how Jesus was conceived in Mary’s womb and how an embryonic life develops in the womb of a mother. This will help us to know that Jesus did not have and could not have had any of Mary’s DNA nor was He related to Mary by blood or descent in any way whatsoever.
The Bible says that Father God prepared a body for His Son in order for His Son to come into the world.
Hebrews 10:5
Therefore, when He came into the world, He said, “Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but a body You have prepared for Me”.Father God prepared an embryonic fleshly body for His Son and planted this embryonic life in the womb of the Virgin Mary. Jesus Christ prior to becoming flesh, was the Spirit Son, the only begotten Son of His Spirit Father. The Son of God in Heaven at His Father’s side, fully cooperated with His Father’s wish so that He could be sent into the world. Therefore, the Son was transformed from His glorified immortal state into a lowly humble mortal state when His Spirit body became a fleshly body in the womb of the Virgin Mary, in order to die for the sins of the whole world. We need to be very clear that Joseph’s sperm and Mary’s egg played absolutely no part whatsoever in the embryonic fleshly body of Jesus that was planted by Father God in the womb of the Virgin Mary.
The embryonic life of Jesus that was conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary was completely of the Holy Spirit (Matthews 1:20) and there was absolutely nothing from Joseph or Mary. Mary was in fact a ‘gestational’ surrogate mother for Jesus, and therefore, she was not his biological mother. Also, it is a biological fact that in a womb that carries a child, the mother and the child have their own completely independent circulatory systems and the mother’s blood does not in any way mix with the child’s (foetus’s) blood. So, we can be absolutely sure that Jesus did not have and could not have had any of Mary’s DNA, and Jesus was not related to Mary by blood or descent in any way whatsoever. However, Mary was indeed a blessed, favoured and honoured woman above all women. God chose Mary so that Jesus Christ, God’s only begotten Son could become flesh in her womb and be born as a unique mortal Human Being in order to die on the cross for the salvation of the whole world.
The miraculous birth of Jesus Christ.
The Son of David?
Yes of course, from the world’s perspective, both Joseph and Mary were Jesus’s legal parents who were the direct descendants of King David and Abraham, and ultimately of Adam. Therefore, this is why Jesus is referred to as the son of Joseph, and also the son of David, in the genealogies of Christ as given in Luke 3: 23-38 and in Matthew 1:16. However, it is important to note that Christ Himself rejects any idea that He had any biological connection with King David.
Matthew 22:41-46
41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?” They said to Him, “The Son of David.” 43 He said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying: 44 ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Till I make your enemies your footstool”’? 45 If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his Son?” 46 And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor from that day on did anyone dare question Him anymore.The question that Jesus asked the Pharisees was how He, Jesus, could be a descendant of King David, when He had existed before King David, and King David clearly knew and understood that Jesus Christ was indeed his Lord. Of course, no Pharisee was able to give Jesus an answer.
The truth of the Bible is that the Son of God existed before Mary, before King David, before Abraham and before Adam. Therefore, Christ’s Humanity was radically different from the humanity of the first Adam. There was absolutely no physical, biological or genetic link between them. Christ simply was not a descendant of the first Adam, and therefore, He did not inherit the unrighteous sinful nature of the first Adam which all descendants of Adam inherit. Christ was born with the Righteous Holy Nature, Gene yes I do believe He was a human and had a fleshly body and He is our elder brother an that we have become a part of the family of God. We just believe different about it all. To me you try to make Him out to be just the son of Joseph and Mary. Just a human man. Later
Gene
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; . Later
Hi Jodi . you said in the past, the Jesus was the first born of the dead.which He was, but He is also
Firstly, Jesus is the Firstborn over all creation (Colossians 1:15), which refers to the Spirit birth of Jesus Christ when the immortal Spirit Father God begot His immortal Spirit Son, before all creation and before time began. This was the beginning of all beginnings (John 1:1).
Secondly, Jesus is the Firstborn of Mary (Matthew 1:25), which refers to Christ’s Human Virgin birth. This is when the immortal Spirit Son became mortal flesh, transforming into the embryo in the womb of the Virgin Mary, approximately 2000 years ago, in order to be born out of Mary’s womb as a unique Human baby, the Son of Man. This was for the ultimate purpose of sacrificing His life on the cross for the sins of the whole world.
Thirdly, Jesus is the Firstborn from the dead(Colossians 1:18), which refers to Christ’s resurrection from the dead after three days and three nights in the grave. Christ is indeed the First Man to be resurrected from the dead, from being mortal to being immortal.
Later
Anthony…..The question to you was what does Heb 2:6-11 say about Mankin and their relationship to Jesus as a son of man. Why skirt those scriptures to put forth something that has nothing to do with our descussion.
Also, Psa 51: 5, has nothing to do with a baby born a sinner, it was speaking of his mother. As Nick said. We are not born sinners we become sinners.
Anthony to change scripture to say what it specifically does not say is bad form. We can not inject our own ideas into scripture unless it fit those scriptures completely. No scripture specifically say Jesus was different then we are in anyway. We are all sons of man m he said over 80 times he was also, but you say he was not a son of man, how do you justify that, you say he was a son of God and therefore he could not be a son of man , then please tell me this was Adam a man, scripture say he was a son of God, now does that not make a man also? Even so with us we are both sons of man and sons of God also. The same with Jesus.
Long drawn out human platoian Greek reasoning doe not make for truth. Anyway you seperate Jesus from us or our human idenity, is serving Satan himself and is false christianity. Jesus is one of us both now and always will be, he is the perfected human being, the first human being to achieve God’s perpose for all humanity. Seening him any other way is deceptions.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Hi Anthony,
As Gene said you have not addressed the fact that Jesus is called and calls himself the Son of Man, this occurs in the NT over 80 times, and also he is called a man many times also, not just a Son of Man, and the Greek word here is human being.
I have said this a few times, the fault lies where people apply a passage that is specifically referring to the Son of Man who is now sitting at God’s right hand, the man who had shed his human blood for us. A man that we are told was not a son of David having been adopted by Joseph but was a son of David through GENESIS, through being his offspring, fruit of his loins.
You deny the scriptures in the NT that repeatedly say Jesus was a man, and you refer to him using a term that is not one time used in scripture. You call him the “only begotten god”. Then you accuse me of heresy. I come back to you saying that I believe the unity of where we are told our faith needs to be, which is to know that the Son of God is the perfect man, he is the full measure of the anointed. How is it exactly I am being a heretic when my belief is literally exactly what Ephesians 4 says?
You need to APPLY the 100 scriptures or so to your definition of Jesus, you need to apply them to all other passages in order to establish the truth of those passages. Applying a term never used in the bible to understand a verse or a passage, while ignoring a term used repeatedly that is intended to be used to understand all passages, is exactly how a person creates a false antichrist Gospel.
Coll 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother, 2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints, 5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; 6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth: 7 As ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ; 8 Who also declared unto us your love in the Spirit. 9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness; 12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
The entire passage thus far is referring to the Christ.
When Paul wrote this Jesus had become a perfect man and he now sat at God’s right hand. Paul is writing saying that he is an apostle of this Jesus the Christ who sits at God’s right hand. Paul is referring to Jesus the Christ as master, and God as his Father.
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
The person who is the image of the invisible God is the man that was perfected, verse 14 tells you that it is speaking of the one that had SHED his BLOOD, who having shed his blood we know he now sits at God’s right hand, and this whole time Paul has been referencing the person who now sits at God’s right hand, Paul is speaking of the person who shed his blood who he knows is in heaven having been appointed heir of all things, thus he is now at the time Paul is speaking the firstborn of every creature.
To ignore the entire passage leading up to verse 15 and ignore verse 14, to say that verse 15 is speaking of a pre-existing being is ludicrous! The passage is speaking of the MAN WHO SHED HIS BLOOD who was raised the firstborn of the dead, he is the firstborn now of every creature. Paul is speaking about the Christ now who he is an apostle for.
For by him, the man that shed his blood, the man that had been perfected, all things were made through and for him. The one that YHWH had declared the END before He established the beginning. The resurrected Jesus is before all things, and in him all things consist because he brought eternal life. If the END which contained eternal life had not been established before the beginning there would have not been a beginning.
He that is head of the Church is the one mediator that exists between us and God, the MAN Jesus the Christ. The one that shed his blood is the firstborn of the dead, which makes him the firstborn of all creation, this MAN has been appointed over all the earth, he is going to return and put all enemies under his feet, he is going to establish a new beginning, he will lead men back to the Garden and the Tree of life where he will have dominion over all the earth.
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created through him, and for him; 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
In the firstborn of the dead all the fulness dwells, this is he who is NOW firstborn of all creation, the one who reconciled us in the body of his flesh through death.
Hi Anthony,
Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Jesus was not and is not now the Spirit of Wisdom. YHWH anointed Jesus with the Spirit of Wisdom, and YHWH gives the Spirit of wisdom to other human beings in order that they may have knowledge of Jesus the Christ.
Hi TC,
The Word was made flesh and dwelled among us.
So from the Jordan…
God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself
Hi TC,
Your a mess, lol!
You: Christ did nothing of himself proves that the Word in him was YHWH. Christ expressed himself as a cloud, a burning bush, melchizedek, etc. The body of Christ was God’s permanent body.
ME: You say though that the WORD is not YHWH below, you are not making any sense to me.
You say the Word in him was YHWH, but the Word is not YHWH?
YOU: YHWH’s words are spirit and come from YHWH but is not YHWH. YHWH expresses his words through the “Word”.
This is what we are told,
Isaiah 11:1 A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit. 2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him— the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of might, the Spirit of the knowledge and fear of the LORD—
Luke 4:17 and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written: 18 “The Spirit of the Lord is on me,because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind,to set the oppressed free, 19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Because of the MAN having been anointed with YHWH’s Spirit YHWH is in him, he is able to speak the words of YHWH, he is able to proclaim the year of the Lord, proclaim freedom, he was anointed so that he could proclaim good news. This is EXACTLY what we are told TC!! Jesus could do nothing of himself because he was a MAN, then he was ANOINTED with the Spirit of YHWH and BECAUSE of that ANOINTING he THEN could speak the words of YHWH.
YHWH spoke in times past to the prophets, and in these last days he spoke THROUGH His Son, the Son was able to do this because as Jesus said , “The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news. Jesus having been given the Spirit of wisdom, understanding and knowledge, made it possible for him to speak wisdom, understanding and speak of the good news because he received the knowledge of the good news from YHWH.
TC you gave the below passage,
Col 2:9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
ME: The him, here is the firstborn of the dead, the perfected man, as obvious because of what Paul told the Colossians earlier.
Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
The fullness dwells in the MAN resurrected from the dead. Why? Because the man resurrected from the dead had been perfected and was not worthy of death. Why? Because YHWH through him brought us also eternal life, so others could be raised from the dead. Without him, the man who shed his blood, YHWH would not have made the world. Everything was made for the man who YHWH perfected, in him is where the fullness dwells, the firstborn of the dead. The firstborn of the dead is the beginning. YHWH had declared the this END, that would be a new beginning before YHWH brought forth Genesis.
Let’s look at Colossians 2 in FULL and apply Ephesians 4.
Colossians 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
The fullness of Christ equates to a perfect man. It is not a pre-existing being, but the Son of Man who had been anointed without measure and YHWH used that anointing to bring him into perfection. As we are TOLD, “the firstborn from the dead..For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell.”
In him below is the firstborn of the dead.
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Exodus 3:11 And Moses said unto God, Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt? 12 And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain. 13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them,Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. 31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
TC the prophets spoke of the coming man through receiving the word from YHWH. The Gospel of God was given to the prophets by YHWH concerning his Son, who was declared to be the Son of God according to the Spirit of holiness having been made of the seed of David.
MOSES was a prophet and YHWH told him what to say, and Moses spoke concerning a prophet that was to come. Moses was not spoken to by pre-existing Jesus, YHWH spoke to Moses about the coming of Jesus.
Mark 12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? 25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. 26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
Likewise you also do err greatly TC. Jesus was not the bush speaking to Moses, his Father was, the God of Abraham. Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
YHWH, the God of Abraham gave Abraham a promise, YHWH gave His Word, that of Abraham’s seed would come the anointed. The only man born of YHWH’s Spirit without measure was of the SEED of Abraham. This is the God of Abraham YHWH. The ONE that SPOKE to Moses saying I am the God of Abraham was YHWH. How absurd can you be TC, you say Christ was the bush, Jesus said that the ONE who spoke to Moses from the bush was the God of Abraham. Jesus does not say that he was the messenger that delivered the message.
Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
Hebrews 1: Long ago God spoke to our ancestors in many and various ways by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom he also created the worlds.
There was no Son that was a Christ speaking as God’s word. The above passage proves it. YHWH used His angels to speak to the prophets, He used dreams, He gave visions. God used many and various WAYS to deliver His message to the prophets, and a pre-existing Jesus was not one of them.
YHWH was with Moses, Moses had been anointed with YHWH’s powers and with His word.
Luke 42:27 Then beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them the things about himself in all the scriptures… 44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you—that everything written about me in the law of Moses, the prophets, and the psalms must be fulfilled.”
Moses didn’t receive word of Christ by a pre-existing Christ, he received word from YHWH about the coming Christ.
John 6:47 Very truly, I tell you, whoever believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats of this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
John 3:14 And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
Numbers 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
Deuteronomy 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet FROM the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Moses had been anointed with YHWH’s powers he was able to save men, keeping them alive. The people were under an anointed man, who had power, he performed miracles and signs, he provided them with food and water. They were to have faith in YHWH because of His anointed, but many didn’t, many complained. They tested this anointed of YHWH, many denied him. Even after all these miracles and signs through this anointed man, they turned and worshiped idols. Through a metal serpent placed on a pole Moses saved lives. This was SPIRITUAL it represented the future of which Moses knew having been given prophecy from YHWH of the coming anointed one greater than him, that would bring eternal life. The people in the wilderness would have their lives spared if they looked upon the serpent on the pole, but the prophet to come that would be greater than Moses, if the people looked upon this anointed man given the Spirit without measure, who shed his blood on the cross, they would receive eternal life.
In the wilderness there was an anointed one, Moses who performed signs, miracles, spoke the words of YHWH, he saved lives from death. Moses spoke to these people saying that a prophet like him would come after him, he would be greater. Moses new that this anointed one, this Christ, would bring eternal life.
Read this again,
Deuteronomy 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet FROM the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
This is speaking of Jesus, who would be raised up to be a prophet (not sent down from heaven as a pre-existing son, the bread of life that came from heaven was FLESH, sinless flesh that was sacrificed on the cross), this prophet that was raised up, he was of thy brethren, he was like Moses having been ANOINTED, he was of the tribe of Judah the seed of Abraham and of the loins of David. Jesus was raised up a prophet when he had been anointed BECOMING from his baptism THE CHRIST, and from then he was sent out the prophet was sent. Not just any prophet was sent out into the world, one born with the fullness of YHWH’s Spirit. God then gave this only born Son to die, and upon his death YHWH had perfected him, then He crowned him with honor and made him to have dominion over all the earth.Moses NEVER eluded to his powers, his anointing as being through the prophet he spoke of would come, as if he pre-existed. On the contrary when he spoke of the coming prophet he was not a pre-existing being, he was like him, he was of man, of his brethren. Paul in Corinthians was not saying that Jesus pre-existed. There was a literal rock that Moses struck, that they drank literal water from, and they ate literal meat, and ate manna, they drank and ate of these things so they could stay alive in the wilderness.What did this spiritually represent that Paul was referring to? The below makes it VERY CLEAR.
John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them,This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. 30 They said therefore unto him, What SIGN shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work? 31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. 32 Then Jesus said unto them,Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 35 And Jesus said unto them,I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. 41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said,I am the bread which came down from heaven. 42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith,I came down from heaven? ….48 I am that bread of life. 49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
The bread that came down from heaven is the FLESH of Jesus, not a god came down to heaven, not a pre-existing son, FLESH, FLESH that had been anointed and the sent out into the world.
The bread of life was sinless flesh that would die and pay the penalty for our sins and bring eternal life.
Hi Anthony,
Jesus never sinned but obeyed the Law And was found a clean vessel at the Jordan.
We are not following a god but a man.
Hi TC,
The fullness of deity DWELLED IN Jesus, the anointed one.
God was in him.
Unlike us Satan had nothing in him.
He was cleansed of sin in the flesh by feeding on the Word.
Jn 15.3
Hi Jodi,
We do not feed on the literal flesh of Jesus because the flesh contributes nothing.
The words that he spoke by the Spirit are life to us if we absorb them and they live in us.
Hi Gene
I guess you didn’t read this.
Hi Gene I’m wrong about baby’s there innocent till they sin. According to Romans 5:12 Later
Jodi,
I believe the scriptures.
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [Jesus] was made a quickening spirit.2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
Jesus was of David, not through actual seed or paternal linkage, but in Matthew it records of his Kingly order through Mary his mother. The word husband is likely a bad translation and should be father of Mary not husband of Mary. In Luke 3 it says Joseph is of Heli, not Jacob like in Matthew. Joseph, Mary’s espoused husband became Jesus step father, but no hanky panky before conception.
In like manner to Matthew 1:1, “Jesus son of David”, we’re all seed of Abraham through believing. Mary’s lineage came through the kingly order. But no paternal linkage to Jesus.
Mat 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. (Not literal Son’s)
Mat 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband (father) of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
Mat 1:20 After he had thought about it, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream. “Joseph, son of David,” he said, “don’t be afraid to take Mary as your wife, because what has been conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. (Conceived from God, no man involved)
Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Hi Gene did you missed these post Yes TC I see what your saying I can agree to this scripture and that would mean I’m wrong about baby’s there innocent till they sin. I Jus don’t know what to do with what David said. Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me” (Psalm 51:5). This does not mean that his mother bore him illegitimately; rather, his mother had inherited a sin nature from her parents, and they from their parents, and so on. David inherited sin from his parents???? God bless
And this post. Hi Gene I’m wrong about baby’s there innocent till they sin. According to Romans 5:12 what do we do with Psalms 51:5 ? TC answered my question. But what do you think? Later
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
