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Hi Gene
So are you right or Jodi?
Romans 5:12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: tells us that, through Adam, sin entered the world and so death was passed on to all men because all have sinned. This passed-on sin is known as inherited sin. Just as we inherit physical characteristics from our parents, we inherit our sinful nature from Adam.
Adam and Eve were made in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:26-27; 9:6). However, we are also in the image and likeness of Adam (Genesis 5:3). And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:When Adam fell into sin, the result was every one of his descendants also being “infected” with sin. David lamented this fact in one of his Psalms: “Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me” (Psalm 51:5). This does not mean that his mother bore him illegitimately; rather, his mother had inherited a sin nature from her parents, and they from their parents, and so on. David inherited sin from his parents, just as we all do. Even if we live the best life possible, we are still sinners as a result of inherited sin.
Being born sinners results in the fact that we all sin. Notice the progression in Romans 5:12: sin entered the world through Adam, death follows sin, death comes to all people, all people sin because they inherit sin from Adam. Because “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23), we need a perfect, sinless sacrifice to wash away our sin, something we are powerless to do on our own. Thankfully, Jesus Christ is the Savior from sin! Our sin has been crucified on the cross of Jesus, and now “in Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (Ephesians 1:7). God, in His infinite wisdom, has provided the remedy for the sin we inherit, and that remedy is available to everyone: “Therefore, my brothers, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you” (Acts 13:38). Later
Hi Anthony,
Good except we inherit death from Adam and not sin. Spiritual death causes us to sin. We are not responsible for Adam’s sin. Read the above articles I posted.
TC……Sin is “inordinate” desire, there is a ordinate desire, that is not a sin, and there is an inordinate desire that turns to lust which causes sin and sin causes death. Ordinate desires do not break the commandments of God, sin is the breaking of the commandments. For sin is the trangression of the law we are told.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Anthony…..We are all born with a “propencty” for sin, we are not born sinners, neither does scripture say David was born a sinner either. You are not properly presenting scriptures, no one is born a sinner, but all are born with the propencty to sin. If we were born sinners, then how could God ever judge us for “our” sins, seening as you believe he created us sinners.
How could a just GOD even punish Adam and Eve, for their actions seening , as you believe, they were created sinners. NO, BUT THEY WERE CREATED WITH THE PROPENSITY TO SIN. THAT IS TRUE.
YOU STILL HAVE NOT STUDIED HEB. 2:6-11, HAVE YOU, so you keep seperating Jesus from his brothers and sisters. Because you are unable to see what God the Father sees in mankind, and Jesus our lord, but even better, our brother, in the family of our God and father. Why skip scriptures, is it to force your false assumptions of moving Jesus away from his human existence.?
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Hi TC
Yes TC I see what your saying I can agree to this scripture and that would mean I’m wrong about baby’s there innocent till they sin. I Jus don’t know what to do with what David said. Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me” (Psalm 51:5). This does not mean that his mother bore him illegitimately; rather, his mother had inherited a sin nature from her parents, and they from their parents, and so on. David inherited sin from his parents???? God bless
Hi TC
Could what David said, be born in sin, mean because of death being passed on to all, he was born in sin?????? God bless
Eph_2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph_2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,Children are not born sinners because of their works doing evil deeds, but are born sinners inheriting the corruption via the blood line, thus all men die. Jesus didn’t have to die and could have lived forever, however he chose by his own freewill to do the father’s will and lay down his life for the brethren, and ultimately the world. He was tempted as all are to sin but chose not to.
This has been discussed before. Jesus was born of a woman, in the womb like any normal human. However, his father was God who made Jesus in the womb of Mary, as there wasn’t any sperm from a man for conception, it takes sperm and an egg to make a baby. He did not inherit the corruption/sin that is passed down to the child through the bloodline via a human father. Life of the flesh is in the blood. This is how Jesus could be born sinless, because he didn’t have the sin corrupted blood that comes from man. Jesus took the flesh part, but not the blood part. That’s why his blood could be shed for us, be cause it was untainted.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Mat 27:4 [Judas] saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.” But they replied, “What do we care? Attend to that yourself.”
Hi Gene
Sometimes I think you just speak to quick and don’t think of what your saying. You said David never said he was born in sin.
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me” (Psalm 51:5). Please, do you think I’m making this stuff up. Later
Hi The Word’s Watchman,
You said, “Children are not born sinners because of their works doing evil deeds, but are born sinners inheriting the corruption via the blood line, thus all men die. Jesus didn’t have to die and could have lived forever, however he chose by his own freewill to do the father’s will and lay down his life for the brethren, and ultimately the world. He was tempted as all are to sin but chose not to.”
Children are born with weak mortal flesh, they are in bondage to the fear of death.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
The “he” who took part of flesh and blood, is speaking of the Son of Man who NOW has eternal life, and was raised where his flesh did not decay but instead received eternal life. He was raised flesh and bones. This now eternal man had partaken of flesh and blood, he had been born a human being able to die. Because the Christ had remained without sin and had been perfected proving obedience with unrelenting faith as he suffered, he could not be held to the penalty of death. This is why God raised him from the dead, he was not deserving of the penalty because he had overcome.
Act2 :24whom God did raise up, having loosed the pains of the death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it,
Jesus was born a human being able to die like all other human beings born from Adam and Eve. God raised him back to life because he had been perfected and was not deserving of death, there had been no sin found in Christ.
Jesus was not immortal but then chose to die. He was mortal and he chose to follow God’s will, he could have followed his own will and saved himself from dying on the cross. But if he saved himself from death on the cross, he still was a mortal and would have eventually died.
Hi TWW Thanks, that was a good post I can understand that . And I can agree to that . So If that be the case, would you say that Jesus had just the nature of His Father? God bless
Jodi,
The he is Jesus. vs 9 says “but we see Jesus”. Vs. 15 he, Jesus, delivers those for fear of death, remaining verses point to Jesus.
The point is, he didn’t take on the bloodline from Adam, like everyone else on the planet. I’m not saying he was some mystical god being. Yes he had flesh and blood but only took the flesh part from Mary, not the blood part from a human man passed down in the spermatozoa. In order for him to be the offering for us, he had to be pure. Jesus was a human being with flesh and blood just like every other human being brought in to this world, the difference is his blood didn’t come from corruptible man. No other sacrifice was sufficient, whether human or animal, because it is all corrupt.
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:12 But this man [Jesus], after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
After he was resurrected, he was given a new body. Even his own disciples didn’t recognize him. We too shall get new bodies.
2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew (ginosko) no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
It’s through the perfect unadulterated blood of the lamb Christ Jesus that we are able to be cleansed and sanctified and brought in to the presence of the Holy Father.
Hi WW,
As scripture attests he is a man.
Hs mother was of the flesh of Adam and he too is a son of Adam.
Born of woman and born under the law he had to battle against all the temptations we face.
Found clean at the Jordan he was given a share of the Spirit of the living God and he walked in that Spirit till his death.
We can follow him.
Hi TC,
You asked, “John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
How was the Word which is God, made flesh?”
The Word was Eternal Life, which God is eternal life.
The Word of God given in a promise, that a man would bring eternal life, that Word became flesh when Jesus was anointed, as it is through Christ we have eternal life.
First acknowledge TC the Word that was made flesh, that flesh represented Jesus, I am sure we can at least agree to that. But can we agree that Jesus did in fact say clearly that he could do nothing of himself, the words he spoke were not His but YHWH’s, that everything he did was through an anointed power, not his own power, but power that he was using through YHWH? The flesh could do nothing of itself, it had been anointed with God’s Spirit and was doing work through YHWH’s powers, the flesh had NO POWER of it’s own.
Does it make sense to you that Jesus pre-existed as some powerful being but then that powerful being became flesh and had no power of his own?
YHWH exists with Powers, He is the only true God because He is the only God that exists with powers. His Word is powerful, because He is powerful, that which He speaks is fulfilled. YHWH said let there be light and so there was light. YHWH’s word to Isaiah was that a servant would be anointed and be given gifts of His Spirit, the Spirit of wisdom, the Spirit of understanding and knowledge. This was YHWH’s words that came into existence, no longer a promise in His Word, but made flesh.
Anthony wants to say that Jesus pre-existed as wisdom, but yet when he was on earth he needed the Spirit of Wisdom to be given to him. If you think that Jesus pre-existed as some being representing Word with power, or representing Wisdom with power, and that being was to become flesh, but then that flesh could do nothing of itself, where does that leave you? How does that make any sense?
Jesus did nothing of himself, everything was done through YHWH. I am suppose to believe that the Spirit of Wisdom became an ignorant baby who had to grow and learn and needed YHWH’s Spirit to cause him to speak YHWH’s words with authority?
YHWH’s Word was that a servant would be called to righteousness, he would be sent out to heal the sick, to be a prophet showing signs and miracles and to speak YHWH’s words declaring YHWH’s kingdom. Christ existed in YHWH’s Word, before YHWH even made the earth. YHWH’s Word was fulfilled, it went from being YHWH’s word to existing in the flesh of the man Jesus.
Who dwelt among the people? A Son of Man performing miracles and speaking YHWH’s words that is who. Who dwelt among the people? A Son of Man that said he could do nothing of himself that is who. Who dwelt among the people? The Christ who would bring eternal life to mankind, that’s who. You don’t seem to acknowledge this TC, neither you or Anthony. If you did acknowledge it you would realize your understanding of John’s words are foolish they make no sense. Now if Jesus on his own had powerful wisdom and spoke truth, and spoke words that produced miracles for the people, then the truth would seem like he had them because that was who he was before. But the truth is he had a weak mortal body and a mind and a will of a man, but he was given God’s Spirit so that he could overcome.
He grew as a boy with wisdom and found favor with God. Then God anointed him, making God’s Word fulfilled, the Word that God had given to Isaiah of which the anointed Jesus quoted.
John 1 is referencing the Christ, not a pre-existing being, or the infant, not the 12 year old boy who we are told worried his parents when they had to spend 3 days looking for him, and then afterward we are told he was obedient to them following them to Nazareth like he was suppose to in the first place. John 1 is speaking of the anointed man. The Word became flesh, when Jesus was anointed fulfilling the Word that YHWH had spoken to the prophets, fulfilling His Word that existed before He made the world. This word, this promise of which God created the earth through and for, was for a man to be anointed, perfected, and then given eternal life, also bringing eternal life to all of mankind.
Hi Anthony,
You: Yes TC I see what your saying I can agree to this scripture and that would mean I’m wrong about baby’s there innocent till they sin. I Just don’t know what to do with what David said. Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me” (Psalm 51:5). This does not mean that his mother bore him illegitimately; rather, his mother had inherited a sin nature from her parents, and they from their parents, and so on. David inherited sin from his parents???? God bless
Me:
David inherited death from his parents. It is death to our spirit minds that is the culprit. It was not the death of the holy spirit, for Adam did not eat of the tree of life. But it very well could be death to the spirit like the angels have, for he made man (Adam) a little lower than angels.https://biblehub.com/lexicon/psalms/8-5.htm
Psalm 8:4 (Bible Hub) What is man (Adam), that you take though of him, and the son of man (Christ), that you care for him? 5 You have made him a little lower than God (angels) and you crown him with glory and majesty.Me: Words in the parenthesis are mine. “Man” in verse 8:4 refers to Adam and his descendants. “Son of man” refers to Christ and his descendants. The word God in verse 5 can mean God or angels. I feel it means angels in regard to when Adam was created and God when it refers to the messiah. So in this light, I believe Adam died after he disobeyed God spiritually of a higher spirit like angels have. He did not die of the holy spirit because he had not eaten of the tree of life.
Click on the link below: Then scroll down on the right margin to “like one”. The definition is “one” and not “like one”. The scroll down to the next line to “of Us, knowing”. The definition is “to know”. Adam and Eve did not become Gods.
https://biblehub.com/lexicon/genesis/3-22.htm
Me: So, I believe that the true rendering should be something like below.
Genesis 3:22 The Lord God said behold man has become one to know good and evil ……
Me: Who or what did man become one with? It was not God at this point. Does the Devil know good and evil?
2 Cor 11: 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Me: A tree can represent a person. I believe it does here in Genesis 3. So instead of eating of the tree of life which represented God, man ate of the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil which represents the devil.
Hi Anthony and All,
Romans 8:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Me: The devil dwells in the hearts of our fleshly minds. His spirit is not good at all.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Me: this is because the devil resides there.
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Ezk 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Me: When we put on Christ, we destroy the works of the devil in our flesh. Those in the milinieum will have it lucky—no devil.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
.Then we cannot sin in our spirit minds born of God. Death is the opposite of life. If we have God’s spirit and life in our spirit minds, we cannot sin there if we follow the holy spirit there. If we follow the spirit in our human hearts and mind, we sin. We do not have to overtly sin, we can sin in our thoughts. We do not inherit sin. We inherit the cause of sin—death of a higher spirit.
Romans 5:12 “Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, on the basis of which all sinned.”
But with a new human heart in our human minds in the likes of Christ, we will be able not to sin in our human minds also. This is dying to self and putting on Christ. For we have one spirit before being born of the holy spirit. We will have one spirit (the holy spirit) in the end, in both our minds of our new flesh and our spirit minds.Christ did not have the devil’s spirit in his flesh.
Read the articles above, they are good.
Hi TWW
Very good last posts. I too believe that Christ was made humanly of the egg of his mother and of the genes of his father supernaturally by God and not through the natural spermatozoa process.
Hi TWW,
You said, “in order for him to be the offering for us, he had to be pure. Jesus was a human being with flesh and blood just like every other human being brought in to this world, the difference is his blood didn’t come from corruptible man. No other sacrifice was sufficient, whether human or animal, because it is all corrupt.”
I am not following you here.
Are you denying that Jesus was of the seed of David?
Jesus is not of the fruit of David’s loins?
Hi,
Those reborn into Christ Jesus are also made perfect.
Heb 12.22
But you have come to Mt Zion, and to the city of the Living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels,
to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all,
and to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant,
and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.
Jesus disempowered the devil, who had the power of death, and enslaved those who feared it.
Heb 2.14+
Hi TWW,
Do you believe in scripture that says that Jesus’s body didn’t decay but it was raised and given eternal life? His body was not allowed to see decay, and Jesus appeared to many and told them that he was flesh and bones. The people who witnessed to the resurrected Christ and saw him in his glory.
Also,
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Jesus was and still is of the DNA of David, according to the FLESH he sits at God’s right hand. Jesus had weak flesh, he could be tempted, he feared death, and he could die. He did die but God promised that his flesh would not decay, instead it would be quickened and raised with power having eternal life. Flesh that has eternal life is free from sin, there is no weakness, no temptation, you don’t have to serve it in order to live. Remember we are told that we all our lifetime are in bondage because we fear death. If you have eternal life in your flesh you are no longer in bondage as you no longer fear death.
The Son of Man/human being is returning to earth. God brought eternal life for HUMAN BEINGS. This doesn’t mean we are changed into a different kind of creature. YHWH made MAN in his own image, He created us to perfect us, not to change us into a different type of creature.
People want to say that Jesus was not just like us, in doing so they destroy the Gospel, they destroy God’s glory and the glory of Christ. God perfected a HUMAN BEING that human being is the firstborn of the dead, he is a perfect HUMAN BEING of flesh and bones who is filled with righteousness and eternal life.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
For the lion to be changed and be made to eat grass, does his flesh have to be changed? Jesus was born with weak flesh but he was raised with powerful flesh. Jesus was born a natural body of flesh, but raised a spiritual body of flesh. The natural body must eat food in order to live, but the spiritually body does not, it lives by the word of God and the word of God alone.
The glory of the terrestrial human body of flesh is not that it will be changed into a different type of creature, but that it will be given eternal life. We will have a flesh body that does not feel pain, it will not be weak, it will not take on disease, it will not get hungry. YHWH isn’t changing our whole entire reality, He is removing pain, He is bringing peace to earth and all living things to function according to it’s intended design. We will once again attend to His Garden and it will not have thorns, or face drought, or be wiped away by pestilence. We will dwell with tame animals not wild animals. We will be thankful to God because He has made all things new to us, He will have restored earth, and HUMAN BEINGS will dwell in His image. We will be righteous following His design of earth as He had intended from the beginning, for we will follow Him with perfect faith.
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