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Hi All,
Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Me: David was conceived in iniquity. We are conceived with enmity towards God. Even to have hate in your heart is sin.
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Me: Enmity is hatred toward God. hatred is sin. Babies are born with carnal minds and enmity towards God. Babies are sinners. There is no scripture that says they are not. There are no scriptures that say that babies are saved when they die young. On the contrary.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Me: Do babies have the holy spirit in them before they sin? There is only one spirit in the end.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
The law written in the hearts of all men convict them of their evil thoughts and desires.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Me: Man is created evil.
Mark 7:20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 21 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 21 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
Psalm 53:2 God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God. 3 Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 4 Have the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread: they have not called upon God. 5 There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath despised them. 6 Oh that the salvation of Israel were come out of Zion! When God bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad.
Me: It is God that chooses and releases us from the bondage of sin through the messiah’s sacrifice.
Hi TC
I just can’t believe that Jesus Christ is just a man as Jodi and Gene. Jodi believes Jesus was born in sin. Gene nobody is born in sin Gene. Bottom line, if that not Hersey I don’t know what is.. God bless TC. Thanks
Hi Jodi
God would never place dna from sinfull man, or sinfull woman so He could inherited Sin. He was Sinless 100%. Later
Hi Anthony,
You would plan for God? Let God be God.
Believe that we follow a man who was born of woman and was an overcomer.
Rev 3
Anthony….you misquote me, I said no one is born a sinner, a baby is not a sinner he or she “becames” one. As far as being born in sin goes, yes we all were born into a sinful world.
ANTHONY, had you actually studied the Hebrew sriptures I quoted for you, you could clearly see the value God places on his human creation. Your religion is not about what scriptures “actually say”, it about fallen christainity traditions , that satan would have all human kind to believe. Jesus was happy to be a “SON OF MAN” he said it over 80 times, but that not good enough for you, you must drive a wedge between Jesus and his brothers and sisters. Not only that but you put down God’s human creation as some kind of garbage he made. Perhaps a mistake of somekind, but God said it was “VERY GOOD'”, seems your view of mankind and GOD THE FATHER’S IS QUITE DIFFERENT.
Whats interesting you seem unable to descuss Heb. 2: 6-11. This only shows your disdain for the word of God. His value on us is exactly the same as it is for Jesus our brother. Or haven’t you read “GOD IS NO RESPECTOR OF PERSONS”.
Jesus is one of us, rather you believe that or not doesn’t change a thing. Jodi, I and Nick, are right on this Anthony.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Gene please did you even read what I wrote. No . IlI’ say it one more time, I don’t believe that Jesus Christ is just a man. K later I’m not trying to done anything Gene, I’m trying to end this, we just don’t agree. There really no more to talk about. I posted what I had to say.
,
Hi Anthony,
If you do not believe he is a man anointed by God you do not believe scripture.
If it is because you believe he is God you are stuck in worldly idolatry.
Hi TC,
So man was born evil you say but James 1.13 tells us that he is born with lusts that give birth to sin, and death.
Nick wrote: So man was born evil you say but James 1.13 tells us that he is born with lusts that give birth to sin, and death.
Me: So lust is not evil? Think!
James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Me:
Gal 5: 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Romans 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Me: We are born with the lust of the flesh that causes us to sin. So we are born with sin in our flesh. Without the spirit of God in us, that is all we do. Even Paul sinned when he followed the flesh. If you have the spirit of God in you, you have a choice. Still, you will sin.
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
New American Standard Bible
1 Cor 13:2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.Me: Even doing good without Godly love is not really doing good.
Hi TC,
Sin leads to death.
Lusts are not sin.
Jesus is an overcomer. Rev 3.21
Follow him, not your ideas.
Hi TC,
Jesus was led by the Spirit and he did not fulfil the lusts of the flesh.
He never sinned and he overcame ‘sin in the flesh’
He resisted Satan who fled from him.
Hi Gene,
The bible is telling us we have something YOU are influenced to say we don’t have ???
“which are minded of their own freewill
to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee” (Ezra 7:13)Should we smudge this verse out of our bibles?
Better yet, what is influencing it the most here?Gene you didn’t answer my questions
Instead you keep ranting on and on about your opinions
If you want a viable conversation, answer my questions
____________
God bless
Ed JHi Gene
Jodi said:
YES Jesus did inherit Adam’s sin .
You said:
No one is a born sinner’s
Who’s right? Later
Anthony…..to “inherit” something does not make you a sinner. Because the sins of the world were laid on him, never made him HIMSELF a sinner. Jodi knows full well Jesus never himself sinned.
Anthony, why are you still NOT dealing with the scriptures I quoted to you, HEB 2:1-11, WHY NOT DESCUSS THOSE SCRIPTURES, INSTEAD OF TRYING TO DIVIDE ME AND JODI.?
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
You wrote:
Sin leads to death.
Lusts are not sin.Me:
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Me: The bold part of Romans 5:12 is in error, as we shall soon see.
From the author:
In Romans 5, Paul says:
Romans 5:12 (ESV) 12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—
Which seems to indicate that death is caused by individual sins. Yet further on he says:
Romans 5:15 (ESV)
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.
Which seems to indicate that death is caused by Adam’s sin. How should this passage be understood?Me: This is reconciled below.
From Author 2:
It is surprising to learn that eph hō, long the basis of the confusion, can be understood after less than one semester of basic Greek. It is not an idiom meaning “because.” Eph is a form of the preposition epi, which usually means “on the basis of” when its object is in the dative case. The word hō is the neuter dative of the relative pronoun hos and means “which.” Therefore, eph hō in this context simply means “on the basis of which.”
As a result, Romans 5:12 should be translated:“Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, on the basis of which all sinned.”
What difference does it make? It reverses the cause and effect relationship. Paul did not say that all men died because all men sinned. Rather, Paul said that all men sinned because all men died. Paul is not imputing Adam’s guilt to us; he is explaining how it is that sin is universal: all people sin because all died spiritually as a result of Adam’s disobedience such that we are now alienated from God.
But isn’t death “the wages of sin” in Romans 6:23? Yes, death is the eschatological consequence of a life of sin for all individuals, apart from Christ. But Romans 5:12 is in a different context and speaks of different circumstances. It explains how a particular event of past history caused a change in humanity’s circumstances, i.e., how Adam’s disobedience made everybody sinners. Arguably, our overfamiliarity with Romans 6:23 has caused us to unconsciously assume that the concepts of sin and death must stand in the same exact relationship when they appear in Romans 5:12. Sometimes we see what we expect to see in the text even if it’s not what is really there, and even many of the greatest scholars over the sweep of church history are not immune to this tendency.Me: Spiritual death inherited from Adam leads to our sinful desires (lust) overcoming us. This leads to death because of our sins. Death because of our sins can be repented of and the death sentence nullified. Death because of Adam’s sin cannot be repented of. It is only through Christ’s sacrifice that it is annulled.
Edj….the word there is not freewill in the Hebrew it should be written as he who voluntarily , want to do. We are free to excercise our “influenced” wills. I never said differently. But that is not speaking about the will “ITSELF” AS WE ARE. This has been explained to you before not only by me but Jodi also.
You seem unable to comprehend that, why is that Edj?
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Hi Nick and All,
Me: We are dead spiritually because of Adam’s sin. We sin when we are dead spiritually. We die physically because we are dead spiritually. Body and spirit go together.
Matt 8:21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. 22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
Me: Here the dead spiritually but alive physically bury those that are dead both physically and spiritually. So what died spiritually? It was the capacity to receive the holy spirit (tree of life).—a spirit mind. The body was also subjected to death, for God said “you” (all of you) will surely die, not only your spirit mind. Dust thou art and dust shall you return, Adam died after about a thousand years (a thousand years is like a day to the LORD. The saints are born again of the spirit have a regenerated spirit mind. At death, they receive a body of that spirit.
Mathew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
Me: So it is death that is passed down to all men which causes them to sin. When Adam sinned, it was if all of humanity had sinned. Adam means mankind. We cannot remove the death penalty associated with this sin. Christ died for Adam’s sin. When we sin, our sins can be repented of and our death penalty also voided also by the Messiah’s death.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
The Messiah did not inherit death from Adam.
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:Me: The Messiah’s flesh (mind and body) was not weak like our flesh that succumbs to sin.
You: Sin leads to death.
Lusts are not sin.Me: Death of the spirit mind leads to sin. We cannot overcome our sinful desires (lust) and thus sin. Lust and sin go together.
You: Jesus is an overcomer. Rev 3.21
Follow him, not your ideas.Me: The Messiah is an overcomer not that he sinned and repented of it. He is an overcomer in the sense that he overcame temptation (Heb 4:15 above) and did not sin.
I follow Christ, not you and your false accusations.
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