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Hi Anthony,
Please do not respond to my posts until I have finished writing down my response to your “book”. I agree with most of it overall, but disagree over some particularities.
Hi Anthony,
Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
WHO is the image of the invisible God???? The ONE who was perfected through suffering who brought redemption through his blood that is WHO!! He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of the dead is the image of God, and being the firstborn of the dead he is the firstborn of every creature, being given all authority over all creation. In this PERFECTED MAN God made heaven and earth, God made heaven and earth through him and for him, the firstborn of the dead. God DECLARED the END before the beginning we are told. This is EXACTLY what Jesus was speaking of when he asked to be glorified with the glory he had before the world was. Anthony, the glory in Jesus is his PERFECTION, which has two parts. The first part is his human spirit that was perfected through suffering, the second is his body that was made perfect being given eternal life no longer able to be tempted. God declared this PROMISE before He made the worlds, ETERNAL LIFE for MAN. Jesus became the firstborn over all creation, having fulfilled this PROMISE of God.
The perfected MAN Jesus, was the GLORY that existed in God when God had established the END before He brought forth the beginning.
There was no pre-existing firstborn son, most certainly NOT one in God’s image, because the one who is the Son that is in God’s image had to be MADE that way, and he was MADE that way through his suffering on earth as a weak mortal man given God’s strength through being the ONLY man having been BORN of God’s Spirit.
Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
You are changing the WHO, to be a pre-existing son, when the WHO is the man that had been perfected and became the image of God. You are changing the firstborn which is speaking of the MAN who shed his blood and then became the firstborn of the dead, to a firstborn pre-existing son.
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
The Son of God is a perfect man, the measure of the fullness of the ANOINTED.
Anthony what you say does not make any sense!
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
The ONE who is the image of God is the MAN that shed his blood. When God says in Genesis “let us make man in our image after our likeness”, He could not be speaking of Himself and Jesus, for Jesus had not been perfected yet, he had not yet gone to the cross and shed his blood.
HOW did God create heaven and earth? By what image is man made? God created heaven and earth and man through His powers. God’s Spirit exists with powers and they created man after their likeness. The mechanical translation of Genesis shows us that Elohiym means Powers. Genesis 2:7 and YHWH (He exists) of Elohiym (Powers) molded the human of powder from the ground and he exhaled in his nostrils a breath of life and the human existed for a being of life.
Jesus was anointed with Elohiym, he was anointed with the full measure of God’s powers, truth, wisdom, understanding, knowledge, and with that knowledge came the ability to speak God’s truth, control the wind, make water into wine, walk on water, heal the sick, raise the dead even. Jesus did nothing of himself, everything he did was through Elohiym, the powers of God. Moses was anointed with powers, Solomon was anointed with power –the Spirit of wisdom, but only Jesus was anointed with Elohiym without measure, which made him the Son of God.
Jesus cannot be a pre-existing Son born the image of God, because Jesus did NOT become the image of God until he was perfected.
Hi Anthony,
I wish you would have stuck to the topic of what we disagree upon. On the other hand, I see we agree with much. Any way, let us go over what you have stated and what we disagree upon.
Opening:
You…include all men and angels, without a single exception, as His created sons of God.
Me: Yes, Christ as the son of God was not created. When man become sons of God, they are created through Christ. As the son of man, he was created. The word was made one with the flesh of his son. The flesh had died and was then resurrected. Neither God nor his spiritual image dies. God’s image is part of him.
You later: Was He a created Man, as believed by Judaism, Islam and groups of people who call themselves ‘Biblical Unitarians’? Absolutely not!
Me: Christ as a man was made of the seed of David. This is a creation. “made of the seed of David’ implies creation. Something made is created.
Hi Gene,
THE TRUTH OF GOD THE FATHER
You: “Then, who was He? He was none other than the only begotten Son of His Father God. True Christianity is absolutely founded upon believing in who the true Christ of the Bible is.
Me: Absolutely agree. There is only one true birthed son of God into the flesh of man. The rest of us become sons of God through Christ’s resurrection from the dead as adopted sons.
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Me: Christ is the invisible image (a below) of his father from eternity. He is the bodily image ( 5a below) as a man. Image does not only mean an exact stamp (invisible spirit or character) but also of the imagination or creativity (man), See John 14:7,9.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/image
a : exact likeness : SEMBLANCE
5a : a tangible or visible representationYou: It is important to understand that Father God is not a formless, ethereal, impersonal spirit, but He is an actual Spirit Person seated on His throne in heaven. Father God has created us in His own image; we are persons and Father God is also a Person. From Genesis to Revelation, the Bible encourages us to have a personal relationship with our heavenly Father God, which is similar in ways to a child having a personal relationship with a loving earthly father.
Me:
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God,
God is personal, but he is invisible to all senses. No one has heard or seen God at any time. Seating on the throne of God is a metaphorical phrase. He expresses himself through his express mage of himself–the Word now made the son of God. God cannot change. His express image of himself can and did. He was restored to his former glory in the spirit after he fully matured in the spirit). Now Christ does not change. Yesterday in Heb 13:8 below does not mean from eternity. It means from his resurrectionHeb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday (2,000 years ago), and to day, and for ever
Hi Anthony,
Me: God’s character is too comprehensive to know as mortal humans. YHWH is what we call God now; it is not his true name. To say that YHWH cannot be pronounced is bull. That is not God’s incomprehensible name.
https://biblehub.com/judges/13-18.htm
Judges 13:8 (NIV) “Why do you ask my name?” the angel of the LORD replied. “It is too wonderful for you to understand.”
Prov 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell?
Me: You cannot tell all of Prov 30:4, including God’s name.
Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name (unknown) of the LORD (Yahweh) shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
Acts 4:10… the name (unkown) of Jesus Christ…12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Me: How can one be saved by only the name YHWH and only by the name Jesus Christ at the same time when both names are different from each other? It is the unknown name in the back of Yahweh and Christ that is the name we are saved by.
Hi Anthony,
You:
Ephesians 3:14-15
14 For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named.Me: True, but it will not be “Yahweh”.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Me: Up to this point, no one knows the true name of God.
You: There is one and only one correct biblical way of understanding what the term ‘God’s only begotten Son’ means, and this is to take the Word of God at its face value. It means that Jesus is literally the one and only Spirit Son of His Spirit Father God in a similar way that Isaac was literally the one and only promised human son of his human father Abraham.
Me: I believe this is true.
You: The Person of Spirit God the Father Himself, BIRTHED His one and only Spirit Son, God the Son,
Me: True, but son of God, and now God the son.
You: and this magnificent event happened in the beginning, which was before Father God created all things through His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ. This is the true biblical meaning of the term ‘God’s only Begotten Son’, which is supported by the Word of God throughout the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation. Any other meaning of this term brings contradiction and confusion into the Word of God.
Me: True, except the Word was birthed when it became one with flesh. God created all things through his now son that was called the Word then, and not son of God. The Word was not known as the son of God until then. This just proves my point. The Word became one with flesh and was then called the son of God. None of the prophets or OT saints was known as the sons of God until Pentecost. That is when they were adopted as sons of God.
1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
Me: God sent his only begotten son in the world after he was begotten at the time of his first coming. This is confirmed by John 1:14, 18 below. What was in the heart and mind (bosom) of God was declared at Christ’s conception.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth…18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Me: The son of God became the son of God at his conception in the womb of Mary, his mother. The Word was not the son of God before God declared him from his heart or bosom as so.
Hey Anthony,
I will continue posting shortly. I have a non medical emergency to tend to right now. Please do not respond until I finish.
You: THE TRUTH OF GOD THE SON
Me: First of All “God the Son” is a Trinitarian rendering. It should be the Son of God.
You: Christ pre-existed as the only begotten Son of His Father God before He existed as the Son of Man
Me:
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh…
Me: And not the son of God was made flesh. The Word was made flesh and called the son of God and the son of man at this point. Actually, as I have written before, The Word became one with flesh, which is the same thing as the Word became flesh.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Me: “the Word was with God” shows subordination. “the Word was God” shows the oneness of God, and his spiritual image, who is also God. His spiritual image is how he reveals himself… Image in the sense of exact likeness in mind… Image also in the sense that of an outward revealing.
You: Father God loved the world so much that He sent His very own Son into the world, His one and only begotten (birthed) Son, born from the body of Father God Himself, before the world was created.
Me: No, our heavenly Father is invisible (to all senses) spirit. He does not have a body. The Word was to acquire a permanent body as the son of God at his conception in the womb of Mary. Prior to that, the word expressed himself as a theophany, i.e. a burning bush, a pillar of a cloud, a man, etc. These were not permanent bodies.
https://www.gotquestions.org/theophany-Christophany.html
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Me: Christ had a permanent body after the burnt offerings and animal sacrifices in the OT. This is after the world was created, not before. Christ became the sacrifice once and for all with a permanent body ( Heb 13:8 above in the prior post) made of the seed of David.
You: John 17:5 (ESV) And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
This scripture confirms the truth that Jesus Christ existed as His Father’s Son before the world existed. There was the most magnificent event in the past, before the world existed, before the creation of the heavens and the earth, when Father God, Yahweh Elohim begot (birthed) His only begotten Son Jesus Christ, Yeshua Elohim.
King David was inspired to write in Psalm 2:7, “You are my Son, Today I have begotten You”. This scripture is repeated three more times in the Bible, in Acts 13:33, Hebrews 1:5 and 5:5, emphasising its great importance. So, let us now understand why the Bible says that it was, “Today” when Father God begot His Son.Me: Christ pre-existed as the Word of God, not as the son of God. John 17:5 is a preordination. Christ was also crucified before the beginning of the creation (Rev 13:8). He was resurrected and ascended unto his Father before the beginning of creation, i.e. in the mind of God, i.e.
John 3:13…but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.Romans 4:17 who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
You: Time began when the heavens and the earth were created but Father God is Spirit and He lives outside of time constraints, and He is not restricted by time. Father God is the great eternal I AM with no beginning and no end, and He lives in the eternal present, the eternal now, the eternal “Today”. So, the scripture, “You are my Son, Today I have begotten You”, must be understood from God’s eternal perspective and not from our human earthly perspective.
So yes indeed, Father God begot His Son, “Today” in eternity before time began, before the world existed, before the creation of the heavens and the earth in the beginning. In fact, the birth of the Son of God was the beginning of all beginnings.Me: Psalm 2.7 is preordained for the future 2,000 years ago.
.
Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:He Anthony,
Me:
Christ could not descend from Joseph as a inheritor of the throne of David, even as an adopted son because of the curse on King Jeconiah in Joseph’s line. But Christ could be an inheritor through his mother’s line. So who was the biological father of the Messiah?
Matt 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham
Me: God could go around the normal reproduction process of male and female. He created the Messiah with both the genes of David and the genes of his mother supernaturally, circumventing the natural reproduction process which would have the Messiah with inherited sin in his flesh.
Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. 10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Rev 22:16 …I am the root (shoot) and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Me: David descendant from Jesse and Christ descended David. A “root” in Isa 11:9 and Rev 22:16 is and offshoot.
Romans 15:12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.
Me: Christ is a direct descendant of David according to the flesh. A “root” in Rev 22:16 is and offshoot: no in-between.
Samuel 7:11 And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies. Also the LORD telleth thee that he will make thee an house. 12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Me: The house of God here is the church or building built without hands . If any in the church (Christ is in us and we in Christ) commit iniquity, God will chasten him.
Me: Christ feels our pain.
You:
The Son of David?
Yes of course, from the world’s perspective, both Joseph and Mary were Jesus’s legal parents who were the direct descendants of King David and Abraham, and ultimately of Adam. Therefore, this is why Jesus is referred to as the son of Joseph, and also the son of David, in the genealogies of Christ as given in Luke 3: 23-38 and in Matthew 1:16. However, it is important to note that Christ Himself rejects any idea that He had any biological connection with King David.
Me: False, as I have just shown you.
You:
Matt 22:41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David. 43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, 44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? 45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
The question that Jesus asked the Pharisees was how He, Jesus, could be a descendant of King David, when He had existed before King David, and King David clearly knew and understood that Jesus Christ was indeed his Lord. Of course, no Pharisee was able to give Jesus an answer.
The truth of the Bible is that the Son of God existed before Mary, before King David, before Abraham and before Adam. Therefore, Christ’s Humanity was radically different from the humanity of the first Adam. There was absolutely no physical, biological or genetic link between them. Christ simply was not a descendant of the first Adam, and therefore, He did not inherit the unrighteous sinful natureof the first Adam which all descendants of Adam inherit. Christ was born with the Righteous Holy Nature, which He inherited from His Father God when He was born of His Father before the world was created. This is why He was able to resist all of the temptations of the flesh and remain sinless throughout His earthly life, and die to forgive the sins of the whole world.Me: Christ was David’s Lord according to the holy spirit. Christ was David’s son according to the flesh, as I have just shown you.
You: It is very important to understand that Jesus Christ did not have two natures, divine and human, as falsely believed by Traditional Christianity. This false unbiblical theology is known as the ‘Hypostatic Union’. The truth of the Bible is that Jesus Christ has, always has had, and always will have only one nature which is the Divine Holy Righteous sinless nature that He inherited from His Father God.
Me:
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.Me: Christ was made supernaturally of the genes of David in everyway except he had no sin in his flesh.
You: It is very important to understand that Jesus Christ did not have two natures, divine and human, as falsely believed by Traditional Christianity. This false unbiblical theology is known as the ‘Hypostatic Union’. The truth of the Bible is that Jesus Christ has, always has had, and always will have only one nature which is the Divine Holy Righteous sinless nature that He inherited from His Father God..
Me: No, Some traditional things are true. Christ was the son of man according to the flesh and the son of God according to the spirit.
Matt 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Me: What did Adam die of that was passed down to men? He died of his spirit mind. He also would die of the flesh of his human spirit. When we are born of the holy spirit, that spirit mind that Adam lost is replaced. Christ was the second Adam that was born with a spirit mind besides his mind of the flesh at conception. Christ was the only one born with the holy spirit as his only spirit. Thus, he is the only begotten son of God at conception.
Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Me: Those born of the spirit of God follow the mind of the flesh with its spirit which leads to death, or the mind of the spirit that is life.
I made a few clumsy errors. The Word was in the beginning with God and was God. All things were created by the word or expression of God. When God speaks through his Word, he creates. The Word or God pre-existed. Christ did not. The Word became one with Christ at Christ’s conception as a human being. Thus, if you say that Christ created all, you actually mean that the Word in Christ created all. The Messiah cannot create himself. God created all through his Word, which is the exact expression of himself. The glory of God is his mind and spirit. The glory of Word that became Christ is that express glory.
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Me: What glory was that? Was it the burning bush? Was it the angel of the LORD? Was it one of three men that visited Sodom? No, it was the glory of being the exact spiritual image of his Father. Christ grew in the spirit to restore that image of the Word of God in him.
The Messiah inherited all things that the Word in him had created. Some one had to die for there to be an inheritance. Who died? It was not God, for God does not die. Since the Word and the man Christ are bonded as one in mind, body and spirit, and the Messiah is bonded as one with God, Christ inherited all things through his own death, as if God had died for us.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Did God feel the suffering of Christ mentally? You can bet he did.
Hi TC
You said: .
Hi Anthony,
I wish you would have stuck to the topic of what we disagree upon. On the other hand, I see we agree with much. Any way, let us go over what you have stated and what we disagree upon. TC you where talking to Gene, not me. Sometimes you address me as Gene. God bless
Hi Jodi
I took the time to look at, how yyou’ believe that Jesus Christ is just a man. I can’t agree with you on this. So I decided that I wouldn’t bring this subject up with you and Gene. Because we where going nowhere with this subject, ( is He a just man annoited at His baptism like us.) Until Gene’s statement on the man of perdition ” that this man was the thought that people within the Church making out, Jesus Christ was a God and not just a man. To me this was another attempt to reinforce the doctorine ” that Jesus Christ was just a man” He was really stretching alittle to far. So in saying that I will just tell you, The Only begotten Son was born before anything was created, by His Father God, and all was created through and for The Only Begotten (birth) Son before the foundation of anything. God bless Jodi
Hi Anthony,
Sorry about calling you Gene and Gene you. I do have a one track mind sometimes when I am focusing on something.
To All,
John 10: 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
John 20: 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Ephesians 4: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
The Son of God is the son of David that was sanctified, being BORN/Begotten of God’s Spirit without measure, and he was sent out into the world to perform God’s will. No Other HUMAN EVER was born of God’s Spirit without measure, no other human remained without sin and would not be worthy of death. This is what makes Jesus the Son of God, NOT that he pre-existed, but that he was the ONLY human to have been born of God’s Spirit given all powers of His Spirit. Jesus was the only human to overcome the enmity. The Son of God is to be equated NOT with a pre-existing son, but with the MAN anointed with God’s Spirit, anything else is an antichrist, it is a FALSE image of THE CHRIST (ANOINTED).
We are told that Jesus was a human servant of whom God was well pleased with, he had grown as a child knowing to choose the good over the evil, he grew strong being waxed with the Spirit like that of John the baptist. As was PROMISED God said that He would make David’s descendant into His Son, this son of the tribe of Judah God would call into righteousness, He would hold his hand and keep him, and he would be a new covenant. On a certain DAY God would be a Father to this son of David, God would beget him with His Spirit, and this Son of God would be sent out into the world to preach God’s word, to heal the sick, and set captives free.
Anthony, Abraham and Sarah were given a promise, in their old age they would have another son. This son is called “only begotten son”. He is called this because he was a son born out of a PROMISE by God. We are given by Paul the understanding of two Adams, a first Adam and a last Adam. One would bring sin and death, the last Adam would bring righteousness and eternal life. Jesus we are told is the genealogy of Abraham and David, and they are descendants of Adam, who was the son of God. Adam was a son of God, but Jesus was a son according to a PROMISE given to David by God, that of his seed God would be a Father to him. No scripture states that God’s already existing son would become a human and son of David. The son of David would become a son of God. The anointing, the sanctification of Jesus at the river made Jesus a Son of God, he then was sent out into the world, he became the FIRSTBORN from the dead, now he is an eternal son being the image of God, and there are other eternal sons and daughters to come.
When Jesus took on eternal life he was no longer the “only begotten son” that applied to a MORTAL MAN, he is now the firstborn son of the dead, a human being with eternal life.
Jesus was the only MORTAL born of God’s Spirit that was without sin, but there will be many sons and daughters BORN of God’s Spirit and they will be MADE EXACTLY like the SON OF MAN when he comes down among the clouds and the four winds are gathered. They along with Jesus will all be Sons of God
John the baptist said that there is one who comes after me, he is preferred before me. John knew that Jesus, who was born after him, would be head over him, as Jesus would be the firstborn of the dead and be given authority over all creation, including him, including David, including Abraham. Before Abraham would receive the promise, Jesus would, as Jesus said, I AM the RESURRECTION and the LIFE, Abraham would receive the promise through Jesus.
The firstborn of the dead, the MAN that was perfected by God’s Spirit is before all things, he is head overall. God declared the END before He made the beginning, and that END was a MAN made perfect who would bring the eternal life God had promised before He made the world, to human beings. He is not before all things because he pre-existed, he is before all of creation because he had been perfected and died for our sins. He is before all things because God had begotten him with His Spirit. God made heaven and earth for the END, for this MAN, who represents the last Adam, where there will be many just like him.
Jesus is not great because he pre-existed and was sent to earth. That is false.
Jesus is great, and we give glory to God because Jesus is God’s fulfilled PROMISR, a human whom God anointed/begat with His Spirit and then sent him out into the world, where with that Spirit he was recognized as the promised Messiah, the one whom God promised He would be a Father to. Those who knew the scriptures saw God’s word in the flesh, as God had told Isaiah that this servant would be able to heal, would be able to set people free. Jesus was NEVER recognized as a son of God by the people because of his BIRTH, he was recognized as the Son of God because he had God’s Powers, working signs and miracles and he spoke the word of God with authority. When he was born some knew that he would grow to become the Messiah, the anointed one, the Son of God of the tribe of Judah and the seed of David, whose flesh God promised would not see decay, who would become an eternal King over Israel being a king of kings having authority over the whole earth.
Jodi….How true, how simple to understand, how perfectly right, for those who have eyes to see. Anyone who truly loves the truth should have no problem understanding that, we are in perfect agreement on this sis.
Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene
Hi Jodi
I really don’t think that there’s much to say on this subject.
We are like totally opposite about this subject. We been back and forth with this. God bless
Hi TC
Are done now TC? I’ll look at All of this and get back to you, soon as I can. Let me know if your not done
God bless
Anthony, your not seening what God the Fathers intentions for mankind is in JESUS.
MAYBE THIS WILL HELP….”What is man that you visit him, you have made him a (little) lower then the angels, you have crowned him with glory and honour, and has put “all” things under his feet, in that he says “ALL THINGS” there is “NOTHING” that is not under his (mankinds) feet. But we do not “yet” see “all” thibgs under his feet, but what do we see, we see Jesus Christ, who was made a little lower then the angels for the tasting of death, “now” crowned with glory and honour, and “all” things are under his feet.
And again, scripture says, “untill we “all” come unto the stature and “full measure” of Christ Jesus”.
Now please show us where there is any difference between Jesus and us his brothers and sisters WHO HAVE THE SAME SPIRIT AS HE HAS. Your views moves Jesus away from his idenity with the rest of mankind, this is SOMETHING JESUS, NOR GOD THE FATHER EVER DID.
Get it Anthony, everything there about Jesus, is exactly identical of what God has in mind for “all” humanity. Satan’s plan was all along to make Jesus “APPEAR DIFFERENT” then we are, so we won’t think we could ever be exact like him. So he created the biggest “LIE” EVER TOLD in Christanity, and that LIE IS, JESUS IS A GOD. Why because WE KNOW WE COULD NEVER BE A GOD, SO WE LOSE HOPE of actual being like exactly like JESUS. But Jesus said it is enough that the student be like his teacher and the servant like his master . That is why Paul said, that “lie” about Jesus was after the workings of SATAN, who is the true author of it. He know what the effect of making JESUS DIFFERENT has on all mankind.
Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene
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