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Nick,
We are saved ” through the washing of the new birth and the renewing of the Holy Spirit” (Titus 3:5)
Which also addresses sin. To be particular, the overcoming of sin.
I also reference Romans 3:19 and another passage in the above post.
Hi KW,
As Peter said at Pentecost we are baptised in water for the forgiveness of sin.
As he says in his first letter our consciences are cleansed.
Do you not believe the Spirit?
Nick,
His sentence was longer than what you wrote.
John baptized for the forgiveness of sins. Jesus’ immersion is more powerful which is why Peter added the words “and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit”. After all John teaches us Jesus immerses with the Spirit.
I know that Peter also states:
1 Peter 1:14-15New English Translation (NET Bible)
14 Like obedient children, do not comply with the evil urges you used to follow in your ignorance, 15 but, like the Holy One who called you, become holy yourselves in all of your conduct,
The one who does that truly has a clean conscious before God.
Genesis 15:4
And behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying,Ezekiel 13:1
And the word of the LORD came to me, saying,2 Samuel 24:11
When David was up in the morning, the word of the LORD came to the prophet Gad, David’s seer, saying,1 Kings 12:22
But the word of God came to Shemaiah, the man of God, saying,1 Kings 13:20
And it came to pass, as they sat at the table, that the word of the LORD came to the prophet who had brought him back.1 Kings 17:8
And the word of the LORD came to him, saying,1 Kings 19:9
Then he came to a cave and lodged there; and behold, the word of the LORD came and said to him,Jeremiah 1:11
Moreover the word of the LORD came to me, saying,Jeremiah 1:13
And the word of the LORD came to me the second time, saying,Jeremiah 13:8
Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,Jeremiah 28:12
Then the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, after that Hananiah the prophet had broken the yoke from off the neck of the prophet Jeremiah, saying,Jeremiah 24:4
Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying,1 Chronicles 17:3
And it came to pass the same night, that the word of God came to Nathan, saying,1 Chronicles 22:8
But the word of the LORD came to me, saying,Isaiah 38:4
Then came the word of the LORD to Isaiah, saying,etc,
John 1.14
And the word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.http://www.hallvworthington.com/Scripture_Grouping/wordcame.html
Hi Miia,
uh-oh 1Peter 1:11 says “the spirit of Christ” was “in the prophets”.
“The Word” of God that came to the Prophets was God’s “HolySpirit”With “the spirit of Christ” in them, and God’s “HolySpirit” coming
unto them it’s no wonder that Prophets were able to speak “The Word”.
I really hope you understand this, but my expectations may be too high._______________
God bless
Ed JHi KW,
Repent and be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins..
Do you not believe God can do this?
Nick,
Why do you keep repeating the words of John’s baptism?
Don’t you know baptism in Jesus’ name is different?
It is true that the word that comes out of God’s mouth took on the qualities of flesh in Jesus of Nazareth when God bestowed God’s own Spirit on Jesus.
Kerwin,
The word came saying. Then the word became flesh.Ed,
“The Word” of God that came to the Prophets was God’s “HolySpirit”
Is that how you word the idea expressed by these words of Peter?
2 Peter 1:21Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
21 For the prophecy [word of God] came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Ed,
uh-oh 1Peter 1:11 says “the spirit of Christ” was “in the prophets”.
“The Word” of God that came to the Prophets was God’s “HolySpirit”With “the spirit of Christ” in them, and God’s “HolySpirit” coming
unto them it’s no wonder that Prophets were able to speak “The Word”.1 Peter 1.11
The prophets who prophesied of the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired about this salvation;
they inquired what person or time was indicated by the Spirit of Christ within them when predicting the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glory.
It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in the things which have now been announced to you by those who preached the good news to you through the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels long to look.Peter is discussing the prophets of old, and what the Spirit of Christ within, revealed to them.
The word of God himself “came saying”; so the word of God is not ONLY the words spoken through the prophets.
Genesis 15:4
And behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, “This one shall not be your heir, but he who comes from your own body shall be your heir.”Exekiel 13. 2
And the word of the LORD came to me, saying, “Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who prophesy, and say to those who prophesy out of their own imagination, ‘Hear the word of the LORD,’etc.
Miia,
The word came saying. Then the word became flesh.
Could you clarify the idea you are trying to share?
Kerwin, I think the word of the LORD who came and spoke in the OT was the word of God in John 1.1 who became flesh.
Ed,
“The Word” of God that came to the Prophets was God’s “HolySpirit”
Is that how you word the idea expressed by these words of Peter?
2 Peter 1:21Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
21 For the prophecy [word of God] came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Hi Kerwin,
Exactly!
_______________
God bless
Ed JMiia,
Kerwin, I think the word of the LORD who came and spoke in the OT was the word of God in John 1.1 who became flesh.
The word spoke in the same way it both increased and prevailed in Acts 19:20 as more people heard and obeyed its words. Acts 12:24 is similarly worded.
The word came to Emanuel means he begins to speak the word of God as he is carried along by the Holy Spirit. It is like a marriage but a very conditional one next to what occurred between Jesus and the word of God.
In other cases it is the Holy Spirit speaking to them as is revealed in this passage.
1 Peter 1:9-11Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. 10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
Technically it is God speaking by way of his own Spirit.
Kerwin,
The use of the word in Acts does not discount Jesus, and where he came down from.John 6.38
“I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me”.John 6.51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven.John 8:58
“Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”John 3.12
If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.Miia,
John 6.38
“I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me”.Jesus is using a mystical wording to hide the truth from those who were not diligent in seeking it so you must be careful in translating is words or in many cases the words of Scripture in general.
We learn this from his words in John 16:25 when he states “The hour is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figures of speech”. The figure of speech he is using is John 6:38 is a called a synecdoche, which is a “simultaneous understanding”, in which a part is called by the whole or the whole by the part.
An example of this is 1 Peter 3:20, where it is written “In the ark a few, that is eight souls, were delivered through water.” In reality more than eight souls were saved because Noah, his three sons, and their wives were saved body, soul, and spirit but Peter is emphasizing souls in his example.
Jesus is doing the same by referring as the Spirit of God that was given to him as a gift by God as all of him. You can see this because Scripture God formed Jesus body in Mary’s body and it was from there he came, in regards to his humanity.
Nick and I disagree on John 8:58 as Nick believe that it is also a synecdoche in which Jesus is addressing the Spirit as the body, soul, spirit, and Holy Spirit of him while I believe he is speaking in the prophetic sense that he was made Christ before Abraham was made the father of many nations. His is more in line with many English translations while mine is based on the Koine Greek and a few of the English translations as well previous words between the Jews and Jesus in the same chapter. Both are true and might of been meant from Jesus as sometimes God use the same words to mean more than one thing.
The rest are all simultaneous understandings in which Jesus is calling the the Spirit of God that is his Spirit, himself. It is not easy to understand but if Jesus wanted it to be easy to understand then he would have spoken clearly.
Miia…..You left off part of JOHN 3:12. IT SAYS “the son of man, “who is “IN” heaven.” I CHECKED IT OUT IN A GREEK LINEAR TRANSLATION, and it does seem to appear somewhat different,but the “who is “IN” heaven”, is still there. I have noticed others who try to force the text to imply JESUS as a preexisting sentinal being, who decended from heaven, often do the samething.
Miia, another interesting point is where it says “IN” heaven, the GREEK text i read, shows the word “TO” LEFT OUT OF OUR TRANSLATIONS, another words it actually says “IN TO” HEAVEN. This could mean Jesus was simply saying he was heavenly connected, or in to heaven as connect to heavwn, not that he actually himself decended from heaven, and we all know he was spiritually connected to GOD who is in heaven, by the anointing spirit of GOD.
Miia, where it say “the word became flesh” is not properly understood, no word ever became flesh, what that is saying is simply that the word which is GOD “came to be” in flesh, the flesh man JESUS. IT took place when he was baptized by John , the sirit of God decended to earth and took dwelt “IN” THE MAN JESUS, therefore that which came down from heaven, THE SPIRIT OF GOD, also ACCENDED back to heaven in the reserected MAN JESUS.
“now if the spirit of him that raised JESUS the CHRIST from the dead “dwell” in you, he, (GOD), shall “ALSO” (like he did Jesus), quicken your mortal bodies”.
You see no difference at all, what the spirit did for Jesus it can also do for us. JESUS did not DECEND from heaven, the SPIRIT OF GOD DID, and took his abode in the flesh of the “MAN” JESUS, ” THAT GOD MAYBE”IN” ALL AND “THROUGH” ALL”, and again, “KNOW you not that your body “is” the “TEMPLE” of the “living God”, and again, what did the spirit of God which was in JESUS say?, “destory this “temple” and IN THREE DAYS I (the spirit of the living God) shall raise i up.”
JESUS IS AN “EXACT” REPLICA OF WHAT GOD CAN DO IN EACH AN EVERYONE OF US. We should not move JESUS away from our exact human idenity with him, as others do, that is exactly what SATAN’S DOCTRINE OF SEPERATION is all about, and nearly all of Christendom has fallen for that LIE.
SATAN DOES NOT WAN US TO SEE OUR POTENTIAL IN THE “MAN” JESUS.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Gene,
You left off part of JOHN 3:12. IT SAYS “the son of man, “who is “IN” heaven.”
There are Koine Greek manuscripts that have these words and those that do not have them.
I think they should be in but I am not skilled enough to discuss the merits of Koine Greek manuscripts beyond a few simple rules the experts themselves are aware of.
The exact wording is not important as long as the listener knows it is speaking of the Spirit of God that God gave to Jesus and therefore is the Spirit of Christ. The words “who is “IN” heaven” help to illustrate that point better and so Jesus may have used but I cannot be sure.
KERWIN….I agree with your assessment, but by leaving it out does give the prexistences an edge, that is probably why a trinitarian translator left it out. IMO
Also you are right if a person understands the spirit was “IN” the man Jesus, it shouldn’t make much diffetence.
kerwin, i ask you to COMMIT on the GREEK in the logos thread about about the messenger andbond servant Jesus sent tothechurches was actually JOHN NOT ANANGELIC BEING. Check it out and see what you think brother.
peace and love to you and yours. ….gene
Nick,
Do you not believe God can do this?
Not only can he do it but he tells the ones under the Law he will do it. For it is written:
Ezekiel 18:21-22Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
The Spirit provides the way and it comes through faith that Jesus is the Christ. That is Peter states “…and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
Gene,
KERWIN….I agree with your assessment, but by leaving it out does give the prexistences an edge, that is probably why a trinitarian translator left it out. IMO
If it was left out then it was left out by a scribe in the first few centuries after the formation of the new covenant. Certain translators may have found the omission favorable to their position and therefore favor it. It is not that favorable as the same thing is said about believers in general in one of Paul’s letters and no one has bothered omitting it.
John 3.12 speaks of Jesus ascending to heaven before he bodily did so; therefore even without the disputed text no one should believe he is speaking of bodily ascending to heaven. If they do so then they have to ignore the context. If the reader is going as far as to ignore the context then whether or not the passage states he is in heaven heaven while he is bodily on earth makes little difference.
I am not sure I do right when I explain the meaning of obscure words that Jesus chose to use as he could have spoken more clearly but chose not to. I still do it because that is my nature and it may be what God calls me to do.
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