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I judge teaching with scripture. I test doctrines with scripture. I separate people from what they teach and judge their teaching.
I do not judge people by saying they do not have the Spirit for example. Do you do that? Be honest.
You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
Please answer? Do you pass judgement on people by saying they have not the Spirit? If so, you should leave that to God Nick and concentrate on the love of God. Without love, we cannot say we are born again. You can say we need to be born again, but if we do not love, then we need to be born again and it is best to do that first and then teach. Do you agree?
Hi t8,
Leave it all to God?
Do you deny the power of the gospel?
Was the work of the Spirit in the apostles all in vain?
Nick, since most of you questions are negative, you can assume I answer no to them from now on. This might save a lot of useless questions in the future.
We should focus on the important stuff such as believing that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. Jesus was born the Christ, not at John’s baptism, but when he was born as a baby in a manger.
t8,
What do you mean by saying that Jesus was born the Christ. The Shepherds out in the fields were Jews. As Jews, they were taught the Anointed One, the decedent of David, was foretold to come. The angel came to them and said the one that is foretold to be the Christ is to come. Because they were Jews that learned from the womb that there foretold to come that would be Anointed it was not necessary to be literal. All the angel had to say to mean what I said previously is the Christ id born in Bethlehem. Natural languages are like that. If I were programming a computer I would have to spell it out because they are literal minded devices. A human being deals with more abstract thinking.
I doubt that Nick is correct about the anointing that truly made Jesus the Christ and so rendered the angels prophecy to the shepherds fulfilled. Nick forgets that Jesus was baptized another time.
Mark 10:38New English Translation (NET Bible)
38 But Jesus said to them, “You don’t know what you are asking! Are you able to drink the cup I drink or be baptized with the baptism I experience?”
It was only after the Romans declared him king and he suffered on the cross that God appointed him Lord of all things in heaven and on earth. If the Romans actions were not enough to declare him the anointed king then God’s action that made him King also declared he is the Anointed. It is only when he went through with they choice to give up his life for the world that he fulfilled Scripture.
What I mean by that is when he was born, he was rightly recognised as the Christ and the son of God. He was further recognised at John’s baptism. These were all signs that he was and is the Christ. Recognising this does not mean denial of other things. So please do not go down the road that Nick has with me. Speculating on what it means to believe that Jesus Christ came in the flesh and that he came in the flesh as a baby in Jerusalem shouldn’t be taken as a denial of other important truths.
If I am attacked because I quote and believe the biblical account and scripture, then something has to be amiss.
Hi KW,
Yes the traditional Christmas understanding has deep roots.
But surely you do not deny his anointing too?
It was only after the Romans declared him king and he suffered on the cross that God appointed him Lord of all things in heaven and on earth. If the Romans actions were not enough to declare him the anointed king then God’s action that made him King also declared he is the Anointed. It is only when he went through with they choice to give up his life for the world that he fulfilled Scripture.
for it is written, ‘HE WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS CONCERNING YOU TO GUARD YOU,’ and, ‘ON their HANDS THEY WILL BEAR YOU UP, SO THAT YOU WILL NOT STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.'” And Jesus answered and said to him, “It is said, ‘YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'”…
Jesus willingly took the ministry as the Lamb of God. He could have chosen otherwise, but he did God’s will and not his own. Just because a person doesn’t do something, doesn’t mean they cannot. They might have a very good reason from refraining. In fact in Heaven, he is honoured as the Lamb of God alongside God himself. Perhaps one day we will come to grasp what he emptied himself of exactly or what he gave up for a time.
Hi T8,
You say
“What I mean by that is when he was born, he was rightly recognised as the Christ and the son of God. He was further recognised at John’s baptism. These were all signs that he was and is the Christ. Recognising this does not mean denial of other things. So please do not go down the road that Nick has with me. Speculating on what it means to believe that Jesus Christ came in the flesh and that he came in the flesh as a baby in Jerusalem shouldn’t be taken as a denial of other important truths. ”
So this was how you see the anointing that you do not deny occurred at the Jordan?
Recognition??
Perhaps you do not see the confusion this causes.
Truth does cause discomfort.
Nick, rather than accuse me of denying the Spirit coming down upon Jesus which I have never done anyway, please concentrate on your denial that he was born the Christ, the Lord, and the saviour.
When you have things that need to be sorted out, you can sort them out, or you can ignore that need and spend your time accusing others of the very thing you need to sort out yourself.
It is wise to judge ourselves Nick. Not wise to make judgements and accusations against others, especially false ones. Judge yourself first and make sure you have the truth of the matter. Then you can teach. But acting like a person who needs to win every argument even against an angel who proclaimed that this day was born Jesus the Christ, the Lord, and saviour, then that is not acting in accordance with the Spirit is it.
If we are born from means we do not dishonour others. Rather we love others. God is love and those that are born of him also love. Having the Spirit means we will not wrestle against a God appointed angel and his message. Further, the Spirit will not lead a man to deny scripture, nor will it lead a man to say that Jesus is not the Christ, but a mere man only.
Hi t8,
You stand by your statement that he was anointed at the Jordan
and yet the Jordan was just a RECOGNITION?
your words
No Nick that is your invention or take on my view. The Spirit came upon him at the Jordan and Jesus was the Christ at birth. God made him Lord and Christ and he was born Lord and Christ. So he was sent into the world to do that which God made him to be. What came first, the a prophecy uttered by a prophet or the prophet?
Hi t8,
There is a difference between being anointed and having that anointing recognised.
Perhaps you are happy with this confusion.
Or was he anointed twice?
Can we follow him into a double anointing?
Nick, if you are confused about it all, then denying he was born the Christ to make it clearer for you is not advised.
Just believe the scriptures and pray God gives you the understanding. As soon as you deny scriptures because they are difficult or say the opposite to what you teach, then the conclusions you draw will be wrong until such point you let the scripture reproof and correct you.
Hi t8,
So you are frightened to challenge your own ideas because you believe they are soundly and scripturally based.
There are other views you should at least consider before committing to your traditional ones.
Not scared. I feel security in believing the scriptures. I then try to understand them by relying on the Spirit of God to show me all truth.
Fools rush in where angels fear to tread. Perhaps there is a healthy fear. Not a scaredy cat. lol.
Tell you what though. I would be scared to false accuse others / bear false witness.
Not scared to challenge the teaching and the spirit though.
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