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T8,
Are you trying to use “came in the flesh” to mean “came into flesh”.
“in the flesh” means physically present or alternatively “alive”.
Those are English idioms and maybe even just American ones.
When the scripture uses the Greek term for God ho theos, it refers to the true God, but when it uses the term theos, without the article ho, it refers not to the God, but to his most ancient Logos (Somn. 1.229-230).
He is speaking of the Koine Greek OT but it can be seen in John 1c that John is claiming the same thing.If he called them gods to whom the word of God came, then are they logos?
Jesus answered them, ‘Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came – and Scripture cannot be broken – do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?”
The lack of a definite article often means you are not being definite but qualitative.
‘The water’ is a particular body of water that is being referenced whereas ‘water’ is talking not about a particular body of water, but water in general. It works like that in Greek and I assume in ancient Greek too. English is not that different. ‘The man’ vs ‘man’ has two different applications.
t8,
If you take to “came in the flesh” in its literal sense then it means “he came wearing flesh”; for example she came in the blue gown.
I suppose you are attempting to use it metaphorically.
t8,
Philo is actually stating that it is qualitative. In short he claims the Logos has the qualities of God but is not God. Philo did teach the Logos was the Christ.
Hi KW,
Philo was not of the Spirit of God or he would not have tried to mix the pure with the ungodly wisdom of men.
T8…..PAUL WAS TAKING in the past tense when Jesus (was) on this earth , he did not think to rob GOD BY Trying to make HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD. But instead took on the form of a servant by denying his own will, and doing the will of GOD THE FATHER. That was Pauls point, he was trying to show us how to be like Jesus by humbling ourselves as Jesus did.
Jesus could have easely stolen GLORY FROM GOD the Father, by taking credit for all the mircales GOD was doing through him. Notice how careful Jesus was at the resurection of Lazarus, when he told Martha , John 11:40 , “Said I Not unto you, that if you would believe, thou should see the “GLORY OF GOD”?, now had Jesus had just razed Lazarus at that moment they would have assumed that Jesus by his own power raised Lazarus and attribute to him, Glory as a God himself, but Jesus understood that, and went on to say, John 11:41-42, FATHER, I thank you that you hear me, and I Knew that you hear me always: (now notice carefully) “but because of the people which stand by I said “IT”, that they may believe that you have sent me”.
Said “IT”, Said what? “That they would see the “Glory of God “, that is what and that could have been applied incorrectly to the Jesus himself, so Jesus clarified what he had said to Martha, and why he said it, to God the Father.
T8, your concepts of Jesus preexisting his berth is wrong. We are struggling with you to come to see this brother.
peace and love to you and yours. ………….gene
Hi t8,
Once you recognise that it is the Spirit speaking through Jesus we then need to sort whether in the One Spirit
it is the Spirit of the Father or the Spirit of the Son.
Nick,
I have not argued that he had the Spirit. I do not know if he ever heard of Jesus Christ though he was about twenty years older than Jesus and lived several years again after Jesus sacrificed himself on the cross.
Hi KW,
Jesus did not sacrifice himself.
He submitted to the will of the Father
which was expressed through the appointed authorities.
Hi t8,
Before Abraham was I am.
Was this from Jesus or the Spirit?
48 The Jews answered him, “Are we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan and have a demon?” 49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me. 50 Yet I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51 Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.” 52 The Jews said to him, “Now we know that you have a demon! Abraham died, as did the prophets, yet you say, ‘If anyone keeps my word, he will never taste death.’ 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? And the prophets died! Who do you make yourself out to be?” 54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’ 55 But you have not known him. I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and I keep his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” 57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.
Whoever answered Nick, it was the same as the one who said,
- “I do not have a demon, but I honor my Father, and you dishonor me.”
- “Yet I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks it, and he is the judge.”
- “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.“
- “But you have not known him. I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and I keep his word.”
- “Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.”
- “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
Was it the Father or Jesus? Did the Father really say: “Yet I do not seek my own glory; there is One who seeks it, and he is the judge.”?
So it was that Jesus answered: “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
This is not only true. It is true true.
By this scripture the Apostle Paul is teaching the church about humility and referring to the “mind of Jesus Christ”, and the scripture states “who being in the form of God…”. It is speaking of him as Jesus Christ not as pre-existent being. “Who being” is present tense.
It does not say “who having been in the form of God…” or “who used to be in the form of God…”Who living in the USA, denied his citizenship and came to England.
Notice that I did not say in the above sentence that He pre-existed in the USA.
Nick, Jesus answered a question that was given to him. It actually says in the text: JESUS ANSWERED.
You won’t talk me out of this.
So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am
T8…….Jesus was not talking about him existing as a living being before Abraham , he was talking bout his importance in the plan of God. That he was even mentioned befor Abraham existed. The Jews were trusting in their decendency from Abraham as the important reason they were connect to God. You as well as the Jews of his day, are miss applying what Jesus was talking about. Jesus never said he was alive before Abraham. He was sayinghe was more important to them thenAbraham was.
peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene
t8,
If you take to “came in the flesh” in its literal sense then it means “he came wearing flesh”; for example she came in the blue gown.
I suppose you are attempting to use it metaphorically.
No he actually existed in the form of God, emptied himself, and came in the flesh. I believe it as it is written.
Philo was not of the Spirit of God or he would not have tried to mix the pure with the ungodly wisdom of men.
Not sure about Philo. He could be right, maybe not. But I do know that those who do not love are not of God.
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
t8,
Philo is actually stating that it is qualitative. In short he claims the Logos has the qualities of God but is not God. Philo did teach the Logos was the Christ.
Yes, the mention of theos in John 1:1c doesn’t have a definite article and logos does.
Jesus said “before Abraham, I am’. That is what he said. His sheep hear his voice. Those that listen to another shepherd might disregard that.
T8,
No he actually existed in the form of God, emptied himself, and came in the flesh. I believe it as it is written.
I am not seeing where what you say is a literal interpretation unless you view “in” and meaning “into”.
If so then it does not go with emptying as take something out and then put something else into it.
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