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As for the Gospel of “John”..
John 1:13 N-GFS
BIB: ἐκ θελήματος σαρκὸς οὐδὲ ἐκ
NAS: of the will of the flesh nor
KJV: of the will of the flesh, nor of
INT: of will of flesh nor ofJohn 1:14 N-NFS
BIB: ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ
NAS: became flesh, and dwelt
KJV: the Word was made flesh, and dwelt
INT: the Word flesh became andJohn 3:6 N-GFS
BIB: ἐκ τῆς σαρκὸς σάρξ ἐστιν
NAS: That which is born of the flesh is flesh,
KJV: of the flesh is
INT: of the flesh flesh isJohn 3:6 N-NFS
BIB: τῆς σαρκὸς σάρξ ἐστιν καὶ
NAS: of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born
KJV: is flesh; and
INT: the flesh flesh is andJohn 6:51 N-NFS
BIB: δώσω ἡ σάρξ μου ἐστὶν
NAS: of the world is My flesh.
KJV: is my flesh, which I
INT: will give the flesh of me isJohn 6:52 N-AFS
BIB: δοῦναι τὴν σάρκα αὐτοῦ φαγεῖν
NAS: this man give us [His] flesh to eat?
KJV: give us [his] flesh to eat?
INT: to give the flesh of him to eatJohn 6:53 N-AFS
BIB: φάγητε τὴν σάρκα τοῦ υἱοῦ
NAS: you eat the flesh of the Son
KJV: ye eat the flesh of the Son
INT: you shall have eaten the flesh of the SonJohn 6:54 N-AFS
BIB: μου τὴν σάρκα καὶ πίνων
NAS: He who eats My flesh and drinks
KJV: Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh
INT: of me the flesh and drinksJohn 6:55 N-NFS
BIB: ἡ γὰρ σάρξ μου ἀληθής
NAS: For My flesh is TRUE food,
KJV: For my flesh is meat
INT: the indeed flesh of me trulyJohn 6:56 N-AFS
BIB: μου τὴν σάρκα καὶ πίνων
NAS: He who eats My flesh and drinks
KJV: He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh
INT: of me the flesh and drinksJohn 6:63 N-NFS
BIB: ζωοποιοῦν ἡ σὰρξ οὐκ ὠφελεῖ
NAS: who gives life; the flesh profits
KJV: that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth
INT: gives life the flesh not profitsJohn 8:15 N-AFS
BIB: κατὰ τὴν σάρκα κρίνετε ἐγὼ
NAS: according to the flesh; I am not judging
KJV: judge after the flesh; I judge
INT: according to the flesh judge IJohn 17:2 N-GFS
BIB: ἐξουσίαν πάσης σαρκός ἵνα πᾶν
NAS: over all flesh, that to all
KJV: over all flesh, that
INT: authority over all flesh that [of] allQuote (kerwin @ Feb. 21 2013,14:00) T8, If Jesus came in the flesh then he did not transform to flesh.
The spirit being Jesus Christ was transformed by God into the flesh being Jesus Christ.That being the case, we can say Jesus BECAME flesh. We can say Jesus WAS MADE flesh. We can say Jesus “has come in the flesh”. And we can say Jesus was transformed from spirit to flesh.
Your point is a non-point, Kerwin.
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2013,16:20) Hi Mike, Jesus preexisted as God.
Hello Eddy,1. Do you believe Jesus was God Almighty when he dwelled on earth?
2. Do you believe Jesus is God Almighty right now?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,11:12) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2013,16:20) Hi Mike, Jesus preexisted as God.
Hello Eddy,1. Do you believe Jesus was God Almighty when he dwelled on earth?
2. Do you believe Jesus is God Almighty right now?
Hi Mike,1) No
2) NoGod bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,13:10) 2B, That information is nice to know, but it doesn't answer the questions of this thread.
Mike, yes it could (possibly).
I will re-post it for you.
'By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist…….'
How do you not know that Jesus “coming in the flesh” does not mean as a man who was able to sin, but did not?
Why does everything have to do with the “flesh – flesh”?
Who wrote the quoted words?
JOHN did.
Q – Where else did John use the same word?
A – Regarding carnal flesh (man).sarx: flesh
Original Word: σάρξ, σαρκός, ἡ1 John 2:16 N-GFS
BIB: ἐπιθυμία τῆς σαρκὸς καὶ ἡ
NAS: the lust of the flesh and the lust
KJV: the lust of the flesh, and
INT: desire of the flesh and the1 John 4:2 N-DFS
BIB: Χριστὸν ἐν σαρκὶ ἐληλυθότα ἐκ
NAS: has come in the flesh is from God;
KJV: is come in the flesh is of
INT: Christ in flesh come of2 John 1:7 N-DFS
BIB: ἐρχόμενον ἐν σαρκί οὗτός ἐστιν
NAS: [as] coming in the flesh. This
KJV: is come in the flesh. This is
INT: coming in flesh this isThe above are the only occurrences of the same word by John.
One time it is used in regard to the sins of the flesh and the other two times is the verses in question.(No need to quote the Gospel of John as it is a different author).
———–
I am sorry if I am a bit behind, I have not been following many threads lately, so do not know where you are all at in this discussion.
Quote (2besee @ Feb. 22 2013,05:55) Mike and all, How do you not know that Jesus “coming in the flesh” does not mean as a man who was able to sin, but did not?
Why does everything have to do with the “flesh – flesh”?
Who wrote the quoted words?
JOHN did.
Q – Where else did John use the same word?
A – Regarding carnal flesh (man).I did a word search but I cannot find my notes.
The same word used in the quoted verse by John is used only one more time in His writing – as stated above.
(No need to quote the Gospel of John as it is a different author).I suggest that you do a word search for 'flesh' in the books of JOHN.
2beecan a man born of human parents save themselves or anyone else from sin and the curse of dead that lays on all men sins Adam
if Christ was not send from God and I mean from heaven we would not be free neither from sins nor would we have hope to the new earth and heaven and everlasting live ,
Christ ,came down from heaven and went up or returned to heaven wen he as died and finish his human work,
if you cannot see this in the scriptures you have not come to know them
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2013,13:18) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,11:12) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2013,16:20) Hi Mike, Jesus preexisted as God.
Hello Eddy,1. Do you believe Jesus was God Almighty when he dwelled on earth?
2. Do you believe Jesus is God Almighty right now?
Hi Mike,1) No
2) NoGod bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed,
What do you mean by that? (:T,
Quote can a man born of human parents save themselves or anyone else from sin and the curse of dead that lays on all men sins Adam A man that shares our flesh and blood is the only one that can save his brethren from sin.
Hebrews 2:14
King James Version (KJV)14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2013,13:23) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 22 2013,05:55) Mike and all, How do you not know that Jesus “coming in the flesh” does not mean as a man who was able to sin, but did not?
Why does everything have to do with the “flesh – flesh”?
Who wrote the quoted words?
JOHN did.
Q – Where else did John use the same word?
A – Regarding carnal flesh (man).I did a word search but I cannot find my notes.
The same word used in the quoted verse by John is used only one more time in His writing – as stated above.
(No need to quote the Gospel of John as it is a different author).I suggest that you do a word search for 'flesh' in the books of JOHN.
2beecan a man born of human parents save themselves or anyone else from sin and the curse of dead that lays on all men sins Adam
if Christ was not send from God and I mean from heaven we would not be free neither from sins nor would we have hope to the new earth and heaven and everlasting live ,
Christ ,came down from heaven and went up or returned to heaven wen he as died and finish his human work,
if you cannot see this in the scriptures you have not come to know them
T,“Can a man born of human parents save themselves or anyone else from sin and the curse of dead that lays on all men since Adam?”
Yes,
The second Adam.
(Adam was a man who had no father of the flesh, just as Jesus had no father of the flesh).Quote
if Christ was not send from God and I mean from heaven we would not be free neither from sins nor would we have hope to the new earth and heaven and everlasting liveI agree that Christ was sent 'from God', 'from Heaven'. (The Holy Spirit, Son).
Can you tell me what is so different from what I believe to what you believe except for the fact that i believe in one God – and you believe in two?
I believe that the Son was Spirit and I believe that the Son pre-existed. but i believe that the son was the Holy Spirit, whereas you believe that the Son was a god of some type.How can you say that people do not know God, just because they do not agree with your doctrines? Millions of people agree with your doctrine. I used to be an Arian too.
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 22 2013,13:36) T, Quote can a man born of human parents save themselves or anyone else from sin and the curse of dead that lays on all men sins Adam A man that shares our flesh and blood is the only one that can save his brethren from sin.
Hebrews 2:14
King James Version (KJV)14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Thank you Kerwin, That is the answer i was looking for.Quote (2besee @ Feb. 22 2013,11:24) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2013,16:20)
Jesus preexisted as God.
Hi Ed,
What do you mean by that? (:
Hi 2Besee,Just exactly what the words suggest.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,06:06) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 21 2013,14:00) T8, If Jesus came in the flesh then he did not transform to flesh.
The spirit being Jesus Christ was transformed by God into the flesh being Jesus Christ.That being the case, we can say Jesus BECAME flesh. We can say Jesus WAS MADE flesh. We can say Jesus “has come in the flesh”. And we can say Jesus was transformed from spirit to flesh.
Your point is a non-point, Kerwin.
Mike,I hear you tell us that you both believe the caterpillar was made a butterfly and that the caterpillar comes in a butterfly.
The bottom line is that teaching makes “comes in” equivalent to “was made”.
Quote (2besee @ Feb. 22 2013,07:47) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2013,13:23) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 22 2013,05:55) Mike and all, How do you not know that Jesus “coming in the flesh” does not mean as a man who was able to sin, but did not?
Why does everything have to do with the “flesh – flesh”?
Who wrote the quoted words?
JOHN did.
Q – Where else did John use the same word?
A – Regarding carnal flesh (man).I did a word search but I cannot find my notes.
The same word used in the quoted verse by John is used only one more time in His writing – as stated above.
(No need to quote the Gospel of John as it is a different author).I suggest that you do a word search for 'flesh' in the books of JOHN.
2beecan a man born of human parents save themselves or anyone else from sin and the curse of dead that lays on all men sins Adam
if Christ was not send from God and I mean from heaven we would not be free neither from sins nor would we have hope to the new earth and heaven and everlasting live ,
Christ ,came down from heaven and went up or returned to heaven wen he as died and finish his human work,
if you cannot see this in the scriptures you have not come to know them
T,“Can a man born of human parents save themselves or anyone else from sin and the curse of dead that lays on all men since Adam?”
Yes,
The second Adam.
(Adam was a man who had no father of the flesh, just as Jesus had no father of the flesh).Quote
if Christ was not send from God and I mean from heaven we would not be free neither from sins nor would we have hope to the new earth and heaven and everlasting liveI agree that Christ was sent 'from God', 'from Heaven'. (The Holy Spirit, Son).
Can you tell me what is so different from what I believe to what you believe except for the fact that i believe in one God – and you believe in two?
I believe that the Son was Spirit and I believe that the Son pre-existed. but i believe that the son was the Holy Spirit, whereas you believe that the Son was a god of some type.How can you say that people do not know God, just because they do not agree with your doctrines? Millions of people agree with your doctrine. I used to be an Arian too.
2beeQuote “Can a man born of human parents save themselves or anyone else from sin and the curse of dead that lays on all men since Adam?”
Yes,Ps 49:7 No man can redeem the life of another
or give to God a ransom for him—
Ps 49:8 the ransom for a life is costly,
no payment is ever enough—it seems that scriptures do not agree with your “YES”
Quote I agree that Christ was sent 'from God', 'from Heaven'. (The Holy Spirit, Son). so you think that Christ his not the son of God but his holy spirit
?show me some scriptures for it
Quote Can you tell me what is so different from what I believe to what you believe except for the fact that i believe in one God – and you believe in two? I do not believe that their are only two gods but very many gods ,you seems not to read the scriptures very well,you have argued with Mike and could not refute him and his scriptures that he presented to you ,
GE 35:2 So Jacob said to his household and to all who were with him, “Put away the foreign gods which are among you, and purify yourselves and change your garments;
GE 31:30 “Now you have indeed gone away because you longed greatly for your father’s house; but why did you steal my gods?”
EX 15:11 “ Who is like You among the gods, O LORD?
Who is like You, majestic in holiness,
Awesome in praises, working wonders?EX 18:11 “Now I know that the LORD is greater than all the gods; indeed, it was proven when they dealt proudly against the people.”
EX 20:3 “ You shall have no other gods before Me.
EX 20:23 ‘ You shall not make other gods besides Me; gods of silver or gods of gold, you shall not make for yourselves.these are but a few scriptures that mention many ,many gods .
Quote I believe that the Son was Spirit and I believe that the Son pre-existed. but i believe that the son was the Holy Spirit, whereas you believe that the Son was a god of some type. If what you believe is not supported by scriptures ,your believe his void of truth and so not of God ,and so it does not do me any good ,and so I have to reject it as being evil.
so show me scriptures ,and then explain all related scriptures that goes against your believe as well .
Quote How can you say that people do not know God, just because they do not agree with your doctrines? Millions of people agree with your doctrine. I used to be an Arian too. I MAKE IT SIMPLE FOR YOU ,SHOW ME IN SCRIPTURES THAT WHAT I SAID HIS AGAINST THE TEACHINGS OF THE PROPHETS ,OF CHRIST AND HIS DISCIPLES ,IF YOU CAN NOT DO THAT THEN WHAT I HAVE SAID MUST BE THE TRUTH OF GOD ,
and for your information i do not belong to any name or religion except Christ the son of God ,
Quote (2besee @ Feb. 22 2013,07:48) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 22 2013,13:36) T, Quote can a man born of human parents save themselves or anyone else from sin and the curse of dead that lays on all men sins Adam A man that shares our flesh and blood is the only one that can save his brethren from sin.
Hebrews 2:14
King James Version (KJV)14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Thank you Kerwin, That is the answer i was looking for.
Kerwin and 2bee
my quote;Quote Quote can a man born of human parents save themselves or anyone else from sin and the curse of dead that lays on all men sins Adam Quote A man that shares our flesh and blood is the only one that can save his brethren from sin. Ps 49:7 No man can redeem the life of another
or give to God a ransom for him—
Ps 49:8 the ransom for a life is costly,
no payment is ever enough—
Ps 49:9 that he should live on forever
and not see decay.your scripture to support your claim ;Hebrews 2:14
let see if you are correct ;
Heb 2:5 It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking.
Heb 2:6 But there is a place where someone has testified:
“What is man that you are mindful of him,
the son of man that you care for him?
Heb 2:7 You made him a little lower than the angels;
you crowned him with glory and honor
Heb 2:8 and put everything under his feet.”In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him.
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
Heb 2:10 In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering.
Heb 2:11 Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.
Heb 2:12 He says,
“I will declare your name to my brothers;
in the presence of the congregation I will sing your praises.”
Heb 2:13 And again,
“I will put my trust in him.”And again he says,
“Here am I, and the children God has given me.”
Heb 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—
Heb 2:15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.
Heb 2:16 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants.
Heb 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 Because he himselfas Paul says about Christ ;Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
Heb 2:3 how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him.
Heb 2:4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.Jn 1:11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
Jn 1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’so are you denying God's word
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 22 2013,11:36) T, Quote can a man born of human parents save themselves or anyone else from sin and the curse of dead that lays on all men sins Adam A man that shares our flesh and blood is the only one that can save his brethren from sin.
Hebrews 2:14
King James Version (KJV)14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Kerwin……..That is exactly right, It was by a Man that sin came into the world and and as a result, a eternal death sentence. It was also By a Man (JESUS) that the penalty of eternal death was removes and replaced by life. We could not have been redeemed, except by another Pure Human Being , and that was the Second Adam a Man Just like the First Adam a Man who came into EXISTENCE as a Pure Human Being.It had to be a EXACT and IDENTICALLY same Being as all HUMAN BEINGS are, Subject to the EXACT Same pulls of the flesh and influences of sin as we are, in order to be a TRUE SACRIFICE for sins.
Making Jesus something other then a pure Human Being of Flesh and Blood is SEPARATING Him from his human roots and idenity, creating another IMAGE of Jesus and is Antichrist Just as John said. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 22 2013,21:09) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 22 2013,11:36) T, Quote can a man born of human parents save themselves or anyone else from sin and the curse of dead that lays on all men sins Adam A man that shares our flesh and blood is the only one that can save his brethren from sin.
Hebrews 2:14
King James Version (KJV)14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Kerwin……..That is exactly right, It was by a Man that sin came into the world and and as a result, a eternal death sentence. It was also By a Man (JESUS) that the penalty of eternal death was removes and replaced by life. We could not have been redeemed, except by another Pure Human Being , and that was the Second Adam a Man Just like the First Adam a Man who came into EXISTENCE as a Pure Human Being.It had to be a EXACT and IDENTICALLY same Being as all HUMAN BEINGS are, Subject to the EXACT Same pulls of the flesh and influences of sin as we are, in order to be a TRUE SACRIFICE for sins.
Making Jesus something other then a pure Human Being of Flesh and Blood is SEPARATING Him from his human roots and idenity, creating another IMAGE of Jesus and is Antichrist Just as John said. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
geneQuote It had to be a EXACT and IDENTICALLY same Being as all HUMAN BEINGS are, Subject to the EXACT Same pulls of the flesh and influences of sin as we are, in order to be a TRUE SACRIFICE for sins. how could that be
Mt 1:20 But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.
Mt 1:21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”
Mt 1:22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophetMt 1:24 When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife.
Mt 1:25 But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.Lk 24:25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!
Lk 24:26 Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?”
Lk 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.Lk 24:46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
Lk 24:47 and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Lk 24:48 You are witnesses of these things.
Lk 24:49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”Jn 1:30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.which of those scriptures do you not agree with
T,
Quote Mt 1:20 But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. Do you believe Jesus was conceived in Mary as a gift of the Spirit or that he instead was a transformed angel that entered her?
T,
Quote
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.I have not looked at the Greek behind these words but this version does noes not support the claim that Jesus was the first created by Jehovah. “over” gives the context and Jesus was given authority over all things in heaven and on earth previously to the time Colossians 1:15 was written but not previously to his conception, Matthew 28:18, Philippians 2:8-11.
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