Preexistence

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 21 2013,00:26)

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 19 2013,23:09) The Word was made flesh and Jesus Christ came in the flesh and so was not made flesh. You're digging yourself in deep with your own words, Kerwin. If Jesus Christ was not made flesh, what was he made?  Steel?  Rubber? And if the words “came in the flesh” only mean he was a man like everyone else, what was John's point in saying such a thing?

Mike,

Are you now claiming that being made flesh is the same thing as coming in the flesh?

So now you believe “in” is in John 1:14.

I did not realize you shifted your doctrine on this point.

[kerwin]

Mike,

Quote

2. WHO then, IS the antichrist? WHO is it among men or angels that DON'T believe Jesus of Nazareth existed at all?

The standing hypothesis is John is speaking of Gnostics. It does fit the bill as Gnostics looked at flesh as flawed or worse. There were at least some sects that literally taught Jesus came out of flesh.

Some teachings in the Church still have Gnostic tenets.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 21 2013,00:23)

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 17 2013,00:11) Jesus was created by the Word, as was everything else that was created. So then, according to Rev 19:13, Jesus somehow BECAME his own CREATOR?   (Please answer this question.)

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 19 2013,13:26)

Mike, The Spirit fluttered, Jehovah said the Word “let there be the Christ”, and Jesus came to be. No one was made without the Word.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 20 2013,11:09)

T, Assuming Jehovah has at least as much authority as a scientist he could use any cell in Mary he chose to make the body of Christ and then modified the genetics and make it a person of it in order to suit his purpose. All men become living souls when the breath of God enters their nostrils. God's Word is full of power. The Word was made flesh and Jesus Christ came in the flesh and so was not made flesh.

K

I understand that that is what you want to believe and concentrate on ,and so make it your own ,disregarding all other scriptures ,you say God WORDS HAVE POWER ,GOOD BUT IT SEAMS YOUR WORDS HAVE MORE POWER ,BECAUSE YOU SWEEP AWAY THE WORDS OF GOD ,AND PLACE YOUR OWN INSTEAD ,

SO IN WHAT I CAN SEE GOD AS NO POWER WEN IT COMES TO KERWIN,

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 21 2013,04:11)

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 20 2013,11:09) T, Assuming Jehovah has at least as much authority as a scientist he could use any cell in Mary he chose to make the body of Christ and then modified the genetics and make it a person of it in order to suit his purpose. All men become living souls when the breath of God enters their nostrils. God's Word is full of power. The Word was made flesh and Jesus Christ came in the flesh and so was not made flesh. K I understand that that is what you want to believe and concentrate on ,and so make it your own ,disregarding all other scriptures ,you say God WORDS HAVE POWER ,GOOD BUT IT SEAMS YOUR WORDS HAVE MORE POWER ,BECAUSE YOU SWEEP AWAY THE WORDS OF GOD ,AND PLACE YOUR OWN INSTEAD ,   SO IN WHAT I CAN SEE GOD AS NO POWER WEN IT COMES TO KERWIN,

T,

You are not being clear with your reasoning.

Your emotional response tells me you do not agree with what I wrote.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 21 2013,09:04)

Mike, Quote 2.  WHO then, IS the antichrist?  WHO is it among men or angels that DON'T believe Jesus of Nazareth existed at all? The standing hypothesis is John is speaking of Gnostics.  It does fit the bill as Gnostics looked at flesh as flawed or worse. There were at least some sects that literally taught Jesus came out of flesh. Some teachings in the Church still have Gnostic tenets.

Kerwin…….That is correct Paul and John were fighting the false teachings of the Gnostic's , the believed Jesus was disguised as a Man and was really a God sent from the Place of the Gods. This false teaching infected The church over the years it was the beginning of Making Jesus into a God . The early Church Father and the Apostles fought vigorously to hold it back until they were taken out of the way and this iniquity became full blown in 325 Ad at the council of Necia. Where the Trinity was full accepted  the church.

This false teaching of the Gnostic's  produced two things,  One Jesus was a GOD, the other, Jesus Preexisted His Berth on this earth.

It was the beginning of the Doctrine that   “SEPARATES”  Jesus' human “IDENTITY” with His fellow Human brothers and sisters.  It is a GREAT INIQUITY Spoken of by Paul and John.

peace and love to you and yours………………………..gene

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 21 2013,12:55)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 21 2013,04:11) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 20 2013,11:09) T, Assuming Jehovah has at least as much authority as a scientist he could use any cell in Mary he chose to make the body of Christ and then modified the genetics and make it a person of it in order to suit his purpose. All men become living souls when the breath of God enters their nostrils. God's Word is full of power. The Word was made flesh and Jesus Christ came in the flesh and so was not made flesh. K I understand that that is what you want to believe and concentrate on ,and so make it your own ,disregarding all other scriptures ,you say God WORDS HAVE POWER ,GOOD BUT IT SEAMS YOUR WORDS HAVE MORE POWER ,BECAUSE YOU SWEEP AWAY THE WORDS OF GOD ,AND PLACE YOUR OWN INSTEAD ,   SO IN WHAT I CAN SEE GOD AS NO POWER WEN IT COMES TO KERWIN,   T, You are not being clear with your reasoning.   Your emotional response tells me you do not agree with what I wrote.

K

I am not emotional at all,I just take in account all the conversation you have made in this topic,

while you only answer this quote based on what you read now ,and not take in consideration all of your understanding acquired up to that moment that you read this quote ,

and so you are always starting anew and never understanding the true meaning of the spirit of Christ,

I do understand what you doing but it is not the way to the truth of God,it is more like doing your grade two over and over again ,right

in my understanding you comments should always reflect you full understanding and believe of your faith

changing the scriptures will place you the judge of the scriptures ,and so place you above God just as the women Babylon the great does,

so personal interpretation of the scriptures will act in the same way,

but answering to question ? that comes up through real study and find answers according to what the whole scriptures are teaching this is new light in darkness ,and so the men of light will recognize that light as such,
and share it with you ,

God bless ,

[Proclaimer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 21 2013,08:26)

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 19 2013,23:09) The Word was made flesh and Jesus Christ came in the flesh and so was not made flesh. You're digging yourself in deep with your own words, Kerwin. If Jesus Christ was not made flesh, what was he made?  Steel?  Rubber? And if the words “came in the flesh” only mean he was a man like everyone else, what was John's point in saying such a thing?

Good points Mike.

There would be no reason to mention that he came in the flesh, unless he was something else before.

“Although he existed in the form of God, he emptied himself and came in the flesh”.

It's so simple and clear, yet the reason they cannot see it is because they don't like 'simplicity in Christ'. Just like many scientists, they prefer to complicate things because either they don't understand themselves, that they use it as a guise for deception, or their minds are puffed up and desire to be in a small group of elites who know something that no one else knows. The latter is about self-importance.

Yet, “You must become like little children to inherit the Kingdom of God”.

Who among us can accept the truth no matter what? And who among us can accept the truth even if it goes against your own understanding. Surely such a person can be led into all truth and will be transformed by the Word of God assisting in the renewing of our minds.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2013,01:33)

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 21 2013,12:55) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 21 2013,04:11) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 20 2013,11:09) T, Assuming Jehovah has at least as much authority as a scientist he could use any cell in Mary he chose to make the body of Christ and then modified the genetics and make it a person of it in order to suit his purpose. All men become living souls when the breath of God enters their nostrils. God's Word is full of power. The Word was made flesh and Jesus Christ came in the flesh and so was not made flesh. K I understand that that is what you want to believe and concentrate on ,and so make it your own ,disregarding all other scriptures ,you say God WORDS HAVE POWER ,GOOD BUT IT SEAMS YOUR WORDS HAVE MORE POWER ,BECAUSE YOU SWEEP AWAY THE WORDS OF GOD ,AND PLACE YOUR OWN INSTEAD ,   SO IN WHAT I CAN SEE GOD AS NO POWER WEN IT COMES TO KERWIN,   T, You are not being clear with your reasoning.   Your emotional response tells me you do not agree with what I wrote. K I am not emotional at all,I just take in account all the conversation you have made in this topic, while you only answer this quote based on what you read now ,and not take in consideration all of your understanding acquired up to that moment that you read this quote , and so you are always starting anew and never understanding the true meaning of the spirit of Christ, I do understand what you doing but it is not the way to the truth of God,it is more like doing your grade two over and over again ,right in my understanding you comments should always reflect you full understanding and believe of your faith changing the scriptures will place you the judge of the scriptures ,and so place you above God just as the women Babylon the great does, so personal interpretation of the scriptures will act in the same way, but answering to question ? that comes up through real study and find answers according to what the whole scriptures are teaching this is new light in darkness ,and so the men of light will recognize that light as such, and share it with you , God bless ,

T,

You write many words but do not address what I wrote except to declare your belief that I am adding to Scripture. Since I see no work of how you arrived at that conclusion it gives me the impression it is an emotional response.

Reason can be addressed with reason but I do not know how to address emotion except with patience and reason. I have nothing to add to what I have already written on the matter and so can either repeat it or let it stand.

You have not yet answered the question of whether you believe Jesus has come in the flesh or whether he transformed to flesh.

[Proclaimer]

Saying that a spoken word was made flesh and that is Jesus, is saying that Jesus is the sum total of his flesh.
So that also means that we are mere flesh and if we trust in Jesus we are trusting in flesh.

However, we are souls. We are alive by the spirit of God, and we are housed in flesh.

And if we can be led by the Spirit of God or the flesh, then what are we exactly that we can be influenced by the spirit or flesh. It stands to reason that we ourselves cannot be that which can influences or leads us.

[kerwin]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 22 2013,01:49)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 21 2013,08:26) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 19 2013,23:09) The Word was made flesh and Jesus Christ came in the flesh and so was not made flesh. You're digging yourself in deep with your own words, Kerwin. If Jesus Christ was not made flesh, what was he made?  Steel?  Rubber? And if the words “came in the flesh” only mean he was a man like everyone else, what was John's point in saying such a thing? Good points Mike. There would be no reason to mention that he came in the flesh, unless he was something else before. “Although he existed in the form of God, he emptied himself and came in the flesh”. It's so simple and clear, yet the reason they cannot see it is because they don't like 'simplicity in Christ'. Just like many scientists, they prefer to complicate things because either they don't understand themselves, that they use it as a guise for deception, or their minds are puffed up and desire to be in a small group of elites who know something that no one else knows. The latter is about self-importance. Yet, “You must become like little children to inherit the Kingdom of God”. Who among us can accept the truth no matter what? And who among us can accept the truth even if it goes against your own understanding. Surely such a person can be led into all truth and will be transformed by the Word of God assisting in the renewing of our minds.

T8,

If Jesus came in the flesh then he did not transform to flesh.

So what you seem to be claiming is Jesus abandoned his tent that was like Jehovah's and entered a new flesh tent that was conceived in Mary.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 22 2013,01:53)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2013,01:33) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 21 2013,12:55) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 21 2013,04:11) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 20 2013,11:09) T, Assuming Jehovah has at least as much authority as a scientist he could use any cell in Mary he chose to make the body of Christ and then modified the genetics and make it a person of it in order to suit his purpose. All men become living souls when the breath of God enters their nostrils. God's Word is full of power. The Word was made flesh and Jesus Christ came in the flesh and so was not made flesh. K I understand that that is what you want to believe and concentrate on ,and so make it your own ,disregarding all other scriptures ,you say God WORDS HAVE POWER ,GOOD BUT IT SEAMS YOUR WORDS HAVE MORE POWER ,BECAUSE YOU SWEEP AWAY THE WORDS OF GOD ,AND PLACE YOUR OWN INSTEAD ,   SO IN WHAT I CAN SEE GOD AS NO POWER WEN IT COMES TO KERWIN,   T, You are not being clear with your reasoning.   Your emotional response tells me you do not agree with what I wrote. K I am not emotional at all,I just take in account all the conversation you have made in this topic, while you only answer this quote based on what you read now ,and not take in consideration all of your understanding acquired up to that moment that you read this quote , and so you are always starting anew and never understanding the true meaning of the spirit of Christ, I do understand what you doing but it is not the way to the truth of God,it is more like doing your grade two over and over again ,right in my understanding you comments should always reflect you full understanding and believe of your faith changing the scriptures will place you the judge of the scriptures ,and so place you above God just as the women Babylon the great does, so personal interpretation of the scriptures will act in the same way, but answering to question ? that comes up through real study and find answers according to what the whole scriptures are teaching this is new light in darkness ,and so the men of light will recognize that light as such, and share it with you , God bless , T, You write many words but do not address what I wrote except to declare your belief that I am adding to Scripture.   Since I see no work of how you arrived at that conclusion it gives me the impression it is an emotional response. Reason can be addressed with reason but I do not know how to address emotion except with patience and reason.  I have nothing to add to what I have already written on the matter and so can either repeat it or let it stand. You have not yet answered the question of whether you believe Jesus has come in the flesh or whether he transformed to flesh.

K

Quote

kerwin Group: Regular Members Posts: 7569 Joined: Jan. 2009 Posted: Feb. 17 2013,00:26 Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 16 2013,13:07) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 16 2013,05:48) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 15 2013,14:42) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 15 2013,12:13) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 15 2013,08:13) So then, “has come in the flesh” just means he was a human being? Why not just say that, Kerwin? Or just say, “#1”? Please stop being “mysterious”, and DIRECTLY answer my question, okay? Mike, In order to conclude that I would evidence that is not in that particular Scripture. Jesus came as a man because other scriptures state he did. He is not an angel in human flesh. K and G You see with your believes you now have to interpret many scriptures in what they mean ,and so can not be taken at face value, And this is wrong ,if everyone that has a believe interprets the scriptures in his own way then what Well that is why we have all those religions sects ,and they deny the coming of the Christ into the flesh from heaven and so are Antichrist as John so said , Reading the bible and then change what is written is NOT believing what is written that simple. T and all, First you claim Jesus was made flesh and now you claim Jesus came in the flesh. So which is it? Did Jesus come in the flesh or was he made flesh? K 1TI 3:16 By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was , revealed in the flesh Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory. 1JN 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 2JN 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. Col 1:23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant. Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning. Jn 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. Jn 1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men. Jn 1:5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it. Jn 1:6 There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. Jn 1:7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. Jn 1:8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. Jn 1:9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world. Jn 1:10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. Jn 1:11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— Jn 1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God. Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.(Jesus Christ) T, You did not answer my question. You are interpreting Scripture to conflict with itself. Since Jesus comes in the flesh he was not made into flesh, as that is contradictory, but instead dwells in the body that is descended from David. That body was conceived in Mary by the power of God acting through the Holy Spirit. So do you confess Jesus came in the flesh or do you confess he was made flesh? ————– Your Fellow Student, Kerwin

I have quoted you scriptures so HONESTLY WHAT ARE THE SCRIPTURES SAYING DO NOT BELIEVE ME BUT THE SCRIPTURES ;SO PLEASE TELL OR REPEAT WHAT SCRIPTURES ARE SAYING AND SEE FOR YOURSELF IF YOU DO NOT CHANGE THE SCRIPTURES '

WAITING FOR YOUR HONEST ANSWER ;

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 22 2013,02:00)

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 22 2013,01:49) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 21 2013,08:26) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 19 2013,23:09) The Word was made flesh and Jesus Christ came in the flesh and so was not made flesh. You're digging yourself in deep with your own words, Kerwin. If Jesus Christ was not made flesh, what was he made?  Steel?  Rubber? And if the words “came in the flesh” only mean he was a man like everyone else, what was John's point in saying such a thing? Good points Mike. There would be no reason to mention that he came in the flesh, unless he was something else before. “Although he existed in the form of God, he emptied himself and came in the flesh”. It's so simple and clear, yet the reason they cannot see it is because they don't like 'simplicity in Christ'. Just like many scientists, they prefer to complicate things because either they don't understand themselves, that they use it as a guise for deception, or their minds are puffed up and desire to be in a small group of elites who know something that no one else knows. The latter is about self-importance. Yet, “You must become like little children to inherit the Kingdom of God”. Who among us can accept the truth no matter what? And who among us can accept the truth even if it goes against your own understanding. Surely such a person can be led into all truth and will be transformed by the Word of God assisting in the renewing of our minds. T8, If Jesus came in the flesh then he did not transform to flesh. So what you seem to be claiming is Jesus abandoned his tent that was like Jehovah's and entered a new flesh tent that was conceived in Mary.

K

very good thinking

[Ed J]

A question for the non-preexisters……., Kerwin?  Ed?  Gene?  Etc………….

---

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 14 2013,11:49)

1 John 4 NKJV 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist……. BRIEFLY explain what the bolded words, “has come in the flesh”, mean to you. 1.  That Jesus was human being? 2.  That Jesus existed as something other than a human being before “coming in the flesh”? 3.  Other?

Hi Mike,

I do believe in preexistence – Jesus preexisted as God.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Reason for edit: I added the title of the thread

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 20 2013,15:44)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 21 2013,00:26) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 19 2013,23:09) The Word was made flesh and Jesus Christ came in the flesh and so was not made flesh. You're digging yourself in deep with your own words, Kerwin. If Jesus Christ was not made flesh, what was he made?  Steel?  Rubber? And if the words “came in the flesh” only mean he was a man like everyone else, what was John's point in saying such a thing? Mike, Are you now claiming that being made flesh is the same thing as coming in the flesh? So now you believe “in” is in John 1:14. I did not realize you shifted your doctrine on this point.

Kerwin,

THE WORD/JESUS, who was a spirit being that existed with God before the world began, BECAME/WAS MADE FLESH.

THE WORD/JESUS, who was a spirit being that existed with God before the world began, CAME IN THE FLESH.

So NO, I do not go ADDING the word “IN” into John 1:14 like you do. Nor have I “shifted my doctrine”.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 20 2013,16:04)

Mike, Quote 2.  WHO then, IS the antichrist?  WHO is it among men or angels that DON'T believe Jesus of Nazareth existed at all? The standing hypothesis is John is speaking of Gnostics.  It does fit the bill as Gnostics looked at flesh as flawed or worse. There were at least some sects that literally taught Jesus came out of flesh. Some teachings in the Church still have Gnostic tenets.

Okay, let's talk about that hypothesis for a minute, and see if it aligns.  Gene says this about the Gnostics:

They believed Jesus was disguised as a Man, and was really a God sent from the Place of the Gods.

I haven't ever researched Gnostics, or what their beliefs were/are, so I'll accept Gene's brief description for now.  And going solely on what Gene posted, it seems that the Gnostics believed that Jesus was existing as god before “coming in the flesh”.  And if that is the case, they couldn't possibly be the “antichrists” that John warned about, right?

Because the “antichrists” are people who DON'T believe Jesus “has come in the flesh”.  And the Gnostics apparently DID believe Jesus “has come in the flesh”, right?

So my question #2 still stands to you:

2.  Since the Gnostics don't fit the bill, WHO then, IS the antichrist?  WHO is it among men or angels that DON'T believe Jesus of Nazareth existed at all?

Also, since you ignored question #1 completely, I thought I'd re-post it for you:

1.  If by the words, “has come in the flesh”, John only meant that Jesus was a flesh human being like all other human beings, WHY would he feel the need to explain this OBVIOUS fact to anyone?  If Jesus had never been anything other than flesh, then John would have been, in effect, saying, “Anyone who doesn't believe Jesus existed is of the antichrist”.

Is that what you think he was saying, Kerwin?  YES or NO?

Please do your best to address BOTH points this time.  Thanks.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 20 2013,16:09)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 21 2013,00:23) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 17 2013,00:11) Jesus was created by the Word, as was everything else that was created. So then, according to Rev 19:13, Jesus somehow BECAME his own CREATOR?   (Please answer this question.) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 19 2013,13:26) Mike, The Spirit fluttered, Jehovah said the Word “let there be the Christ”, and Jesus came to be. No one was made without the Word.

Kerwin,

That re-quote doesn't even address my question.

You are saying that “the Word” CREATED Jesus, right?

And you believe that “the Word” in Rev 19:13 IS Jesus, right?

If you add those two together, it means that Jesus, at some point, BECAME his own CREATOR.

Is that what you believe, Kerwin? YES or NO?

[2besee]

Mike and all,

How do you not know that Jesus “coming in the flesh” does not mean as a man who was able to sin, but did not?

Why does everything have to do with the “flesh – flesh”?

Who wrote the quoted words?
JOHN did.
Q – Where else did John use the same word?
A – Regarding carnal flesh (man).

I did a word search but I cannot find my notes.
The same word used in the quoted verse by John is used only one more time in His writing – as stated above.
(No need to quote the Gospel of John as it is a different author).

I suggest that you do a word search for 'flesh' in the books of JOHN.

[2besee]

Here we go,

sarx: flesh
Original Word: σάρξ, σαρκός, ἡ

1 John 2:16 N-GFS
BIB: ἐπιθυμία τῆς σαρκὸς καὶ ἡ
NAS: the lust of the flesh and the lust
KJV: the lust of the flesh, and
INT: desire of the flesh and the

1 John 4:2 N-DFS
BIB: Χριστὸν ἐν σαρκὶ ἐληλυθότα ἐκ
NAS: has come in the flesh is from God;
KJV: is come in the flesh is of
INT: Christ in flesh come of

2 John 1:7 N-DFS
BIB: ἐρχόμενον ἐν σαρκί οὗτός ἐστιν
NAS: [as] coming in the flesh. This
KJV: is come in the flesh. This is
INT: coming in flesh this is

The above are the only occurrences of the word by John.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 21 2013,13:49)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 21 2013,08:26) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 19 2013,23:09) The Word was made flesh and Jesus Christ came in the flesh and so was not made flesh. You're digging yourself in deep with your own words, Kerwin. If Jesus Christ was not made flesh, what was he made?  Steel?  Rubber? And if the words “came in the flesh” only mean he was a man like everyone else, what was John's point in saying such a thing? Good points Mike. There would be no reason to mention that he came in the flesh, unless he was something else before.

And that's exactly the point I'm TRYING to make to these guys.  

In the first post of page 3, I directly asked them to either show a published quote of someone referring to a normal human being as having “come in the flesh”………….. OR TO ADMIT THEY CAN'T.

Not one of them has posted the quote I'm asking for, or admitted there is none.

So here they are, PRETENDING that “has come in the flesh” is just a regular old way of saying that a particular person has never been anything other than a regular human being like the rest of us.

And why?  Because they don't WANT Jesus to have pre-existed before he “came in the flesh”.  They put their personal desires above the actual words of scriptures.  How sad for them.

[Author]

Posts