Preexistence

Participant

ED J………Amen brother they just can't allow Jesus to be a Purely Human Being and see how God perfected him as a pure human being, they must move Jesus away from our Human Idenity with him and place him in a catorgry higher then that of man. They fail to realize Man is GOD'S CROWN JEWEL of CREATION, and that nothing is his equal in all of God creation, God has placed MAN over ALL his creation and Jesus is the “FIRSTBORN” of all creation to achieve that goal that God has in Mind for us all.

Their false religion of “seperation” has made Jesus different then we are in all kind of ways. They are not able to understand this false image of Jesus they preach is exactly what the Apostel Paul was talking about in 2Ths 2 and that false image or “lie” about Jesus will be done away with at Jesus' return by his very own “breath of His own Mouth” (his own words) at his return. This false image they preach is the the man of Sin spoken of there. It is not a real person but a “LIE” about Jesus and that “LIE” will be abolished by Jesus himself at his return. Then we will see where these false teachers will stand in that day IMO

peace and love to you and yours Ed J………………………………………………..gene

November 10, 2012 at 10:21 pm#319683

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 09 2012,19:02)

Terricca………..Exact respones i would expect of you so tell me Pierre, Will Mike or T8 be the ones who will represent you to God or Christ Jesus? You can't answer those question put to you because you simply know they are the oppisit of what both Mike and T8 and You are saying. so you respond in you mormal way of trying to dicredit a person, trying to make it appear you know what you are talking about.

As far as me asking Paul goes, if Paul couldnt answer the qurestion as you can't, it would not bother me a bit to ask Jesus, and Neither of those two MIKE OR T8 are “PAUL or JESUS” that is for sure, or they, like you, would not belive the false teachings that they Preach, that also is for sure. They (Paul and Jesus) both Loved the Truth, i don't see that in You or Mike or T8, or you would not be preaching the Doctrines that seperates Jesus from our “EXACT” Idenity with him. that also is for sure> IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………………………gene

Quote

Terricca………..Exact respones i would expect of you so tell me Pierre,

we are on the same site and forum ,it is not like we are not knowing each other ,

you did not agree with Mike and t8 or any one else ,except those who sees as you do but not according to all of scriptures ,and so you would not answer scriptures that are not lign up with your view ,or better you would give them a different interpretation ,

I have no more patience to go again and again ,

November 10, 2012 at 10:51 pm#319689

Participant

Terricca……………I and others also have GAVE THEM OVER AND OVER AGAIN to no avail to you and them. To say no one else does is a Direct LIE, which you seem to be very good at here. The Truth is not what you seek from scripture or you would have acknowleded the ones i posted . And please don't talk about me giving them different interputation when that is exactly what you and your Coharts do. If you have no patience then bow out of the subject , that is your choice Pierre.

peace and love to you and yours………………………………………………..gene

November 10, 2012 at 11:02 pm#319691

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 11 2012,04:39)

If you considered “ALL” Scripture written about Jesus it would help bring you out of your darkness on the subject of Jesus' “PREEXISTENCE”. IMO

Actually Gene, there are quite a number of scriptures that if read without filters, indicate that Jesus was with the Father before the world began and that God made everything through him.

You have to add these filters to get your view:

The 'memory' filter
The 'God didn't make everything through him' filter
The 'I am doesn't mean I exist' filter
The 'exist in the form of God doesn't mean he existed in the form of God' filter.
So let's be clear, we have none of those filters and we see it as it is written. Using your filters, you come to an opposite conclusion. If you cannot see that, then you are indeed blind.

November 11, 2012 at 7:15 pm#319823

Participant

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 11 2012,09:02)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 11 2012,04:39)

If you considered “ALL” Scripture written about Jesus it would help bring you out of your darkness on the subject of Jesus' “PREEXISTENCE”. IMO

Actually Gene, there are quite a number of scriptures that if read without filters, indicate that Jesus was with the Father before the world began and that God made everything through him.

You have to add these filters to get your view:

The 'memory' filter

The 'God didn't make everything through him' filter

The 'I am doesn't mean I exist' filter

The 'exist in the form of God doesn't mean he existed in the form of God' filter.

So let's be clear, we have none of those filters and we see it as it is written. Using your filters, you come to an opposite conclusion. If you cannot see that, then you are indeed blind.

T8………Thank you for saying that brother, you are right I do have a Hugh filter called the Spirit of Truth which I received a long time ago and it guides me into all truth, it allows me to retain in my mind what is actually and specifically said in scriptures, no just one or two verses that can be twisted to say what in fact they do not say.

So you are right and I hope God will never remove that filter from me .
It is sorrowfully to me that it appears you may be lacking it, or you would question your assumptions of what you think the scriptures are really saying.

Why don't you start by asking God to open your eyes to question some of your assumptions brother ? I know there is a mountain of confusion taught by the Trinitarians and other Preexistences out there and those false teachings in one way or another have effect millions of millions of people. You were more than likely raised up with those teaching of a Preexistence Jesus and so it is hard for you to stand back and question it. But I tell you it would be good for you to do that brother.

Peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene

November 11, 2012 at 9:02 pm#319827

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 12 2012,00:15)

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 11 2012,09:02)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 11 2012,04:39)

If you considered “ALL” Scripture written about Jesus it would help bring you out of your darkness on the subject of Jesus' “PREEXISTENCE”. IMO

Actually Gene, there are quite a number of scriptures that if read without filters, indicate that Jesus was with the Father before the world began and that God made everything through him.

You have to add these filters to get your view:

The 'memory' filter

The 'God didn't make everything through him' filter

The 'I am doesn't mean I exist' filter

The 'exist in the form of God doesn't mean he existed in the form of God' filter.

So let's be clear, we have none of those filters and we see it as it is written. Using your filters, you come to an opposite conclusion. If you cannot see that, then you are indeed blind.

Peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene

Gene you are as blind as a bat and a molle .one flys in the air and the other one walk in the earth within chanels

November 12, 2012 at 3:10 pm#319951

Participant

Terricca………..Again you do what you do best here, Lie and Accuse people who disagree with you , that seems to be all you are able to offer here to people who disagree with your view. Why is it that most all Preexistences and Trinitarians always resort to that kind of mentality. You seem to be the leader of the pack here, Much like the Pharisees who were “ACCUSERS” of Jesus and Lied about him also.

peace and love to you and your……………………………………………………..gene

November 12, 2012 at 5:16 pm#319966

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 12 2012,20:10)

peace and love to you and your……………………………………………………..gene

just try to help you to see ,put some mud on it and wash it off

November 12, 2012 at 9:20 pm#319974

Participant

Gene I will dedicate 2 posts to you.

I would appreciate your response to them, otherwise I am wasting my time communicating with you.

Thanks in advance.

November 12, 2012 at 9:23 pm#319976

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 12 2012,08:15)

T8………Thank you for saying that brother, you are right I do have a Hugh filter called the Spirit of Truth which I received a long time ago and it guides me into all truth, it allows me to retain in my mind what is actually and specifically said in scriptures, no just one or two verses that can be twisted to say what in fact they do not say.

The spirit of God does not interpret scripture in an opposite way.

'Before Abraham I exist' for you becomes 'before Abraham I didn't exist'.

'Back to the glory that I had with God before the world began' to you is 'back to the memory that you had of me before the world began'.

'The root and offspring of David' to you becomes 'Not the root but only the offspring of David'.

'All things that were created were created through Jesus' becomes 'All things that were created were not created through Jesus, instead this is only the new creation'.

'To the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen' becomes 'To the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, NOT before all ages, but ONLY now and forevermore! Amen'.

See how blind you must be to ignore what I am saying. Obviously something is blocking your vision and it is others who can see your true works.

If it is a spirit that is the filter, then it cannot be the spirit of God for God's spirit would not lead a man to opposite conclusions to that which is written.

November 12, 2012 at 9:23 pm#319977

Participant

Gene could I have an answer here.

You have never given me an answer to who is the first born of all creation. Who according to you is the first that God ever brought into existence. If it was not Jesus Christ as the Word then who was it because surely the first to be brought into existence must be a very special person given that firstborns are blessed. And surely because he could only have come from God and thus would likely be an exact image of God and the first born over all creation, he would be all the more special. Who is this to you if it is not Jesus?

November 14, 2012 at 4:15 pm#320358

Participant

T8……….Yes you may, the word (OF) means from , And indeed Jesus is the firstborn even the word born should tell you it was a born person being talked about there. Jesus is the Firstborn from all creation to make it into the kingdom of God.

T8 your forcing to text to say what in fact it is not saying Brother, and i never said Jesus was first that God ever Brought into existence that is what you are saying . T8 Just simple logic Here OK? Don't you think that if John meant Jesus he would have Just written Jesus mane there. The Word of God is not a Person it is tied to a Person Just as your words are tied to you , you and your word are one and the same thing. Think about T8

If you can only believe that God the Father who is a Spirit was truly “IN” Jesus He shared that same Body which he called a temple , if you could only come to understand that, it would greatly increase your understand of the truth. God was reconciling the World in Christ Jesus.

I tell you as i have Mike if you can come to see Jesus as Just a Pure Human Being who the Father Perfected and raised from the Grave, a fellow Human Being nothing More or nothing Less. You will have a true relationship with him as you never had before. Jesus is my brother exactly as i am who loved me and gave his Life that i might have eternal life by the forgiveness of my sins through his laying down his life for me.

He is my kinsmen Redeemer Who our Father his and mine has highly exhausted. He is my Lord T8, but (above) that, he is my brother i see him as a Brother of mine in the Family of God, a fellow human brother just as i see all mankind and all of our potential is the same as Jesus' was and is. IMO

peace and love to you and yours T8…………………………………………………………….gene

November 14, 2012 at 9:16 pm#320365

Participant

Still Gene, your opposite conclusions are obvious when you read those scriptures.

Remember that we don't have your filters, so we are reading it as it is written.

It seems to me that you need to add a paragraph to each of these verses in order to arrive at your conclusion.

Hence why you always take a paragraph when explaining it.

I too could add a paragraph to anything at arrive at an opposite conclusion. It is very easy to do, but I believe that it is wrong to change the truth about a matter into something else.

November 15, 2012 at 7:00 am#320404

Ed J

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 13 2012,01:10)

peace and love to you and your……………………………………………………..gene

Hi Gene,

It's funny how you have two tiles and Pierre has none.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

November 15, 2012 at 7:03 am#320405

Ed J

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 15 2012,02:15)

He is my kinsmen Redeemer

peace and love to you and yours T8…………………………………………………………….gene

Hi Gene,

You got that right brother!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

November 15, 2012 at 1:07 pm#320449

Participant

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 15 2012,07:16)

Still Gene, your opposite conclusions are obvious when you read those scriptures.

Remember that we don't have your filters, so we are reading it as it is written.

It seems to me that you need to add a paragraph to each of these verses in order to arrive at your conclusion.

Hence why you always take a paragraph when explaining it.

I too could add a paragraph to anything at arrive at an opposite conclusion. It is very easy to do, but I believe that it is wrong to change the truth about a matter into something else.

T8……..I am sorry you don't have the filters that is not my fault , ask God and he may give it to you. Then perhaps some blindness may be removed from you brother.

As far as changing Scriptures goes what do you call what your doing, saying the Word , “Word” in John 1:1 means Jesus. If that is not forcing the text i Don't know what is.

If what i have said by my paragraphs don't meet the word of God then show it. I and others have given you clear logic to what i and they have said and it is in full agreement with scriptures. You seem to rather keep you blinders on brother. IMO

peace and love to you and yours………………………………gene

December 11, 2012 at 4:15 am#324044

Participant

Gene, yes I am careful not to put on blinders.

I can quote these scriptures verbatim or in a general sense and you cannot.

You are not free to say these scriptures in your everyday language.

You only ever talk about them in order to refute them.

I would be worried if I was doing that, and I think you should be worried for the same reason.

December 11, 2012 at 4:57 am#324057