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Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 03 2012,13:58) So? I've learned since then. Besides, I don't remember what you said before. Please lay out your understanding of those two verses for me.
Hi Mike:Read what I have posted to t8. Maybe, it will jog your memory.
Love in Christ,
MartyMike and T8……….Jesus at the time of Paul writing this was already going into heaven and so Paul was referencing his Past “EARTHLY” EXISTENCE, but you and T8 are trying to make it appear He is talking about a time Past his earthly existence as if he then existed in the form of GOD. That is not a true rendition of what Paul was talking about as the context should show you clearly. Jesus took on the nature of a SERVANT even though He had the Nature of GOD, Setting us an example. That was Paul's Point, nothing else. You are forcing the text to meet you Dogmas and false assumptions. IMO
peace and love………………………………………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 04 2012,09:23) Mike and T8……….Jesus at the time of Paul writing this was already going into heaven and so Paul was referencing his Past “EARTHLY” EXISTENCE, but you and T8 are trying to make it appear He is talking about a time Past his earthly existence as if he then existed in the form of GOD. That is not a true rendition of what Paul was talking about as the context should show you clearly. Jesus took on the nature of a SERVANT even though He had the Nature of GOD, Setting us an example. That was Paul's Point, nothing else. You are forcing the text to meet you Dogmas and false assumptions. IMO peace and love………………………………………………………………gene
GenePaul talks about Christ and the son of God and the son of man,and the future of men into the kingdom of God and the end off this age,
look at all his letters and you would understand it
1 John 1
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched —this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We write this to make our joy complete.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 04 2012,05:23) Mike and T8……….Jesus at the time of Paul writing this was already going into heaven and so Paul was referencing his Past “EARTHLY” EXISTENCE, but you and T8 are trying to make it appear He is talking about a time Past his earthly existence as if he then existed in the form of GOD.
Form of God/nature of God > Emptied himself > Form of man/nature of man > humbled himself > died > back in the glory that he had with the Father before the world began.Read it again Gene. You will notice that the points are in order with the exception of the last point which is written elsewhere and can only be put at the end.
You can deny it, but it is written and it is wise to not change that which has been revealed. I know pride is a hard thing to conquer. But I think it is obvious that it is better for us to swallow our pride and accept truth rather than trying to change the truth of God into a lie of some kind as liars have no place in the Kingdom and obviously you do not want to be the one by whom a lie comes to others.
Quote (t8 @ July 04 2012,18:23) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 04 2012,05:23) Mike and T8……….Jesus at the time of Paul writing this was already going into heaven and so Paul was referencing his Past “EARTHLY” EXISTENCE, but you and T8 are trying to make it appear He is talking about a time Past his earthly existence as if he then existed in the form of GOD.
Form of God/nature of God > Emptied himself > Form of man/nature of man > humbled himself > died > back in the glory that he had with the Father before the world began.Read it again Gene. You will notice that the points are in order with the exception of the last point which is written elsewhere and can only be put at the end.
You can deny it, but it is written and it is wise to not change that which has been revealed. I know pride is a hard thing to conquer. But I think it is obvious that it is better for us to swallow our pride and accept truth rather than trying to change the truth of God into a lie of some kind as liars have no place in the Kingdom and obviously you do not want to be the one by whom a lie comes to others.
T8……….This could also be said to you and all “PREEXISTENCES and TRINITARIANS who also believe as you, that Jesus Preexisted His berth on this earth as a sentinel Being of some kind which you or they have no idea what the Being was . No scripture shows any activity of this Being you and they have insisted existed. Jesus certainly made no statement of any past activity and has showed no past works he was involved in. Preexistences are simply Trinitarians with only one exception they do not believe Jesus was GOD the Father , but believe he was a lesser god or morphed Angels or something else which they have no idea, that is all the difference is . IMOT8……….Because I ask for “SPECIFIC” scriptures to backup up your “ASSUMPTIONS” , has nothing to do with “PRIDE”. I and many others have over the years produced scriptures that deny a Preexisting Jesus and you and other Trinitarians and Preexistences have Just ignored them so Now who has a”PRIDE” problem here us non Preexistences or You Preexistences and Trinitarians. WE are not taking the Scripture like John1:1 and taking out the Word , “WORD” John used there and replacing it with Jesus, as if John was did not know what he was writing or did not know how to spell Jesus. WE don't take Paul's Word in Philippians and change it tense as you preexistences do. WE don't take thing out of Context like Jesus speaking about Him Before Abraham meaning he PREEXISTED BEFORE ABRAHAM as meaning he was in existence as a Being Before HIM.
T8 is it wise to assume People who do not agree with you ASSUMPTIONS as being “PROUD” I doubt it Brother.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
Quote (t8 @ July 04 2012,18:16) 1 John 1
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched —this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We write this to make our joy complete.
T8………The word of Life was (IN) Jesus, Jesus was Not the word of Life that was (IN) him. The word of Life was the FATHER or GOD and (IT) Dwelt (IN) Jesus and can Be (IN) anyone. That is GOD”S Anointing SPIRIT. Need PROOF?Mat 10:19….> But when they deliver you up, take not thought how or what you shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what you shall speak. (Now Please take Notice T8) verse 20.
For it is “NOT” you the speaks, but the SPIRIT of you FATHER which “SPEAKS” (IN) you.
T8 this is the same with Jesus it was the FATHER that was (IN) him Speaking Through HIM> get it?
Thomas therefore said MY Lord and my GOD> God was speaking though Jesus to us all, Jesus was a “Man”, God is Not a Man But can (INDWELL) Men and Speak (first Person) through any MAN.
God who in times “PAST” Spoke to us through the PROPHETS has in these Latter Day Spoken to us “THROUGH”a Son. get it>
It was GOD Himself SPEAKING HIS OWN WORDS “THROUGH” whoever He chose to, He is speaking His OWN WORDS. Problem is people do not understand what a SPIRIT IS> So they can't understand how GOD was truly Present (IN) Jesus.
Jesus is not the WORD of GOD even if he shall be called that,because God speaks through him. GOD the FATHER is his OWN WORD. Common sense should tell you that T8. No “MYSTERY” RELIGION Needed brother. IMO
peace and love to you and yours T8………………………………….gene
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
1 John 5
11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.The life is “in the Word”. And the life is “in God's Son”.
Hmmmmm…………….
Quote (942767 @ July 02 2012,21:05) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 03 2012,13:58) So? I've learned since then. Besides, I don't remember what you said before. Please lay out your understanding of those two verses for me.
Hi Mike:Read what I have posted to t8. Maybe, it will jog your memory.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Okay Marty,Let me see if I can figure out what you believe, since that is apparently easier in your mind than you just telling me.
Phil 2:6
Who, existing in the form of God…………….Do you think Jesus was existing in the form of God while he was a human being on earth? YES or NO?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 05 2012,04:30) Quote (942767 @ July 02 2012,21:05) Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 03 2012,13:58) So? I've learned since then. Besides, I don't remember what you said before. Please lay out your understanding of those two verses for me.
Hi Mike:Read what I have posted to t8. Maybe, it will jog your memory.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Okay Marty,Let me see if I can figure out what you believe, since that is apparently easier in your mind than you just telling me.
Phil 2:6
Who, existing in the form of God…………….Do you think Jesus was existing in the form of God while he was a human being on earth? YES or NO?
Yes.Quote (t8 @ July 04 2012,18:16) 1 John 1
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched —this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We write this to make our joy complete.
No doubt that eternal life was with the Father before the foundation of the world, it was His plan in the beginning to make man in His own image, the first man Adam was made a living soul, the Last Adam was made a life giving spirit.But Jesus, the Last Adam did not exist as a sentient person util he was born into the world, and so the scripture state:
Quote and the Life was manifested, and we have seen Quote Galatians 4:4 and when the fulness of time did come, God sent forth His Son, come of a woman, come under law, Love in Christ,
MartyAnd what does that mean, Marty? How exactly was Jesus existing in the form of God while a human being? Does God have the form of a human being?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 05 2012,06:26) And what does that mean, Marty? How exactly was Jesus existing in the form of God while a human being? Does God have the form of a human being?
Mike:What it says is that a human being was in the form of God, not that God had the form of a human being.
Jesus as God's Only Begotten Son and His Christ was sent by God, and through His authority and life he was “in the form of God”. I have already showed you this scripture, but here it is again:
Quote Mat 9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. Mat 9:3 And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This [man] blasphemeth.
Mat 9:4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
Mat 9:5 For whether is easier, to say, [Thy] sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
Mat 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
Mat 9:7 And he arose, and departed to his house.
Mat 9:8 But when the multitudes saw [it], they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men
Love in Christ,
MartyMarty,
It's interesting that you can admit Jesus was God's only begotten Son in this thread while denying it in the other thread.
But tell me, if the existing in the form of God was when Jesus was a human being, what does it mean that he was made into the likeness of a human being?
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 06 2012,14:58) Quote (t8 @ July 06 2012,10:59) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ July 06 2012,12:40) To Those Who Do Understand, Father Yahweh's word is not a separate person, being, “god”, or “an angel.”
And the Word was WITH GOD.
The Word became flesh.
He is called “The Word of God”.Have another go Frank because we clearly believe this and you deny it, even though it is written.
t8,Father Yahweh's word that was with Him was not a separate person, being, “god”, or “an angel”.
Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?
…
Say what you like Frank.But the Word that was with God became flesh and his name was Jesus. You would have us believe that Jesus had no existence with God before the world began even though scripture is clear that he had glory with the Father at that point.
You cannot prove your stance and you go against too many scriptures with it.
Even this text which is similar to John 1:1 is against your view.
1 John 1
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
In case you had any doubt about how to read John 1:1, you only need to read 1John 1:1 to get further clarification.
Notice that the life was with the Father and was revealed.
And what was that revelation? It was Jesus and did not this Jesus actually say with his own mouth: “I am the life”.He was the life that was with the Father before the world began.
T8………That was GOD the FATHER (IN) Jesus Speaking (Through) him, (HIS WORDS). Do not Jesus say the FATHER “IN” ME HE doth the Works. and again Jesus said the words i am telling you are Spirit and “LIFE” , and again the word I am telling you are “NOT” My Words but the “WORDS” of Him who sent me. Making Jesus the “Words he was speaking is a false teaching.
peace and love to you and yours………………………………………………………….gene
EDJ……….An you will find NO answer to that Post becasue it stops them dead in their tracks , so they simply will ignore it becasue they can't explain it away . After all it was Jesus Himself that said that not me or you right brother?
peace and love to you and yours brother……………………………………………………gene
Really Gene? It was the Father saying “the Father in me does the works”? It was the Father saying, “the words I speak are not my own”?
Explain this one:
John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.Who came DOWN from heaven, Gene? And whose will did he come DOWN from heaven to do?
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