Preexistence

[Proclaimer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2012,16:30)

No Nick, Men, as a general rule, DON'T pre-exist as gods or angels.   But then, men, as a general rule, aren't sired by God Almighty and a human women.   Men, as a general rule, don't ask to be returned to the glory they had alongside their God before the world began.   Men, as a general rule, don't say, “I came down from heaven.”   Men, as a general rule, aren't prophesied about for thousands of years before they become men.   Men, as a general rule, aren't said to have their origins from the ancient past – by a man who lived hundreds of years before they became men.   The universe, and everything in it, isn't said to have been created through men, as a general rule. I could go on and on and on, but I think you get the point that Jesus was an exception to “men” in general.

Good post Mike.

[Proclaimer]

Quote from Wikipedia:

Origen excelled in multiple branches of theological scholarship, including textual criticism, biblical interpretation, philosophical theology, preaching, and spirituality. Some of his teachings, however, quickly became controversial. Notably, he frequently referred to his hypothesis of the pre-existence of souls. As in the beginning all intelligent beings were united to God, Origen also held out the possibility, though he did not assert so definitively, that in the end all beings, perhaps even the arch-fiend Satan,[5] would be reconciled to God in what is called the apokatastasis (“restitution”). Origen's views on the Trinity, in which he saw the Son of God as subordinate to God the Father, became controversial during the Arian controversy of the fourth century, though a subordinationist view was common among the ante-Nicene Fathers. A group who came to be known as Origenists, and who firmly believed in the preexistence of souls and the apokatastasis, were declared anathema in the 6th century. This condemnation is attributed to the Second Ecumenical Council of Constantinople, though it does not appear in the council's official minutes.[6] Few scholars today believe that Origen should be blamed, as he commonly was in the past, for tentatively putting forward hypotheses, later judged heretical, on certain philosophical problems during a time when Christian doctrine was somewhat unclear on said problems.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
The man asked to be sent into the pigs?
Or do you have two standards?

[Proclaimer]

Origen was hypothesising by the sound of it.
I also have to admit that it is possible, because we are not taught that we our souls definitely did not exist with the Father beforehand.

If scripture is not definate on a subject, then it remains open to speculation and hypothesis. And the fact that it is not definite probably means that it is not important for us to know the truth about that matter now.

Of course there may well be scripture that proves this point is true or not. Not aware of such at this minute.

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2012,17:28)

Hi MB, The man asked to be sent into the pigs? Or do you have two standards?

N

sinse wen can a man jump in a pig they did not ask to go ON the pigs but IN the pigs ,

[terraricca]

Quote (t8 @ June 02 2012,17:33)

Origen was hypothesising by the sound of it. I also have to admit that it is possible, because we are not taught that we our souls definitely did not exist with the Father beforehand. If scripture is not definate on a subject, then it remains open to speculation and hypothesis. And the fact that it is not definite probably means that it is not important for us to know the truth about that matter now. Of course there may well be scripture that proves this point is true or not. Not aware of such at this minute.

T8

good post,and true ;I have come trough to the idea in scriptures ,but I can't remember were it is ,I will try to find it and communicated to you ,

as for the unity of the spiriy with God,does not scriptures say;

Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

were was the spirit before he give it ?

MT 5:44 “But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
LK 6:27 “But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,
LK 6:35 “But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men.

those scripture above are the foundation of the work of Christ'

but why who benefit from it ,??? and when

God love men ,that he send his only begotten son to them to save them all ,how and wen?

[NickHassan]

Quote (terraricca @ June 02 2012,10:40)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2012,17:28) Hi MB, The man asked to be sent into the pigs? Or do you have two standards? N sinse wen can a man jump in a pig  they did not ask to go ON the pigs but IN the pigs ,

Quite so t,
It was the spirits in the human vessel speaking.
So why can MB not yet hear the voice of the Spirit of God in Jesus Christ?

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2012,18:02)

Quote (terraricca @ June 02 2012,10:40) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2012,17:28) Hi MB, The man asked to be sent into the pigs? Or do you have two standards? N sinse wen can a man jump in a pig  they did not ask to go ON the pigs but IN the pigs , Quite so t, It was the spirits in the human vessel speaking. So why can MB not yet hear the voice of the Spirit of God in Jesus Christ?

N

do not confuse demon posessed and being filled of the spirit of God ,this is just black and white ,no connection between those two

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 01 2012,18:02)

So why can MB not yet hear the voice of the Spirit of God in Jesus Christ?

John 14:26
But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

Was it the Spirit of God speaking through Jesus in this verse, Nick?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Yes the Word of God

[mikeboll64]

So the Word is one spirit of God, and the Holy Spirit of God was sent in the name of that first spirit of God?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
The Spirit is one.
The Word is of that Spirit just as the Spirit of Elijah /John is.

The Word was with God and the Word was God.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2012,14:07)

Hi MB, The Spirit is one.

So the ONE spirit said they should be glad he is leaving, because that ONE spirit can't send that ONE spirit until that ONE spirit goes?  (John 16:7)

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2012,14:07)

The Word was with God and the Word was God.

The dog was with the car, and the dog was the car.

The man was with the woman, and the man was the woman.

The word was with the god, and the word was the god.

Nick, the third one only works if the first two also work. Do they?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Why would you mock scripture?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Yes Jesus said he would send the Comforter, the Spirit of truth that proceeds from the Father, when he returned.

They would come to them.

In the one Spirit.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2012,15:10)

Hi MB, Why would you mock scripture?

I have mocked scripture? How so?

Are YOU “mocking scripture” when you tell a Trinitarian how nonsensical their doctrine is?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Following Origen into reliance on greek logic is not wise.

[mikeboll64]

I don't know to what you refer, but even the Trinitarians Keith and Jack speak the scriptural truth some of the time, right?

Right now I'm trying to show you how senseless it is to believe that the Word was with the same God it was.

It seems that you're whole “concept that came to you one night” stems from your blatant misunderstanding of John 1:1.

Re-read my sample sentences again. Tell me which one of them makes any sense.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Yes it will seem wrong to you.
Carnal vision does limit you.

You would correct scripture so it makes sense to you?

mindless fluff.

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