Preexistence

Blocked

Quote (Ed J @ May 15 2012,18:39)

Hi Mike,

We been through this before: Manoah thought the Angel was
“God” not 'a god'.

Judges 13:16
The angel of the LORD replied, “Even though you detain me, I will not eat any of your food. But if you prepare a burnt offering, offer it to the LORD.” (Manoah did not realize that it was the angel of the LORD.)

Judges 13:21
When the angel of the LORD did not show himself again to Manoah and his wife, Manoah realized that it was the angel of the LORD.

22 “We are doomed to die!” he said to his wife. “We have seen God!” (or “a god”, IMO)

May 16, 2012 at 2:35 am#298269

Blocked

Frank,

Who do you suppose the gods are that Jehovah is the God of?

Who do you suppose the gods IN HEAVEN are that Paul mentions in 1 Cor 8:5?

May 16, 2012 at 11:00 am#298355

Participant

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 16 2012,14:24)

There is ONLY ONE TRUE Mighty One (ONE SOURCE OF POWER) [“God”] and that is Father Yahweh. If there is ONLY ONE TRUE Mighty One (ONE SOURCE OF POWER) [“God”] Who is Father Yahweh, then it only stands to reason that all other “so-called” or “called” Mighty Ones (SOURCES OF POWER) [“Gods”] are FALSE Mighty Ones (SOURCES OF POWER) which would most definitely be in opposition to the TRUE MIGHTY ONE, Father Yahweh.

You neglect to mention that those who are relegated God's power are also called theos.

Not all who are called theos are false theos.

But there is one Almighty Theos who is the source of all power. You are right with that.

May 16, 2012 at 11:02 am#298356

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 16 2012,14:21)

Btw, it is not Pierre and my who took it upon ourselves to call them gods, Ed. We simply believe and repeat what is written in scripture. Why not try to be scripturally correct instead of politically correct, Ed? Speak according to scripture instead of following the status quo.

That is good advice.

May 16, 2012 at 11:03 am#298357

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 16 2012,15:49)

The everlasting Father[His brothers are his children]

Yes, Abraham is the father of those who have faith.
Jesus is the everlasting father/ab.

May 16, 2012 at 11:11 am#298358

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ May 14 2012,05:52)

Hi Mike,

I believe we all preexisted.
But Jesus was never an Angel,
as Hebrews 2:5 clearly illustrates.

Any particular points you want addressed?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed what you are saying here is Jesus was never a messenger.
Even Malachi was a messenger Ed, but apparently Jesus was not according to you.

May 16, 2012 at 11:31 am#298359

Ed J

Participant

Quote (t8 @ May 16 2012,22:11)

Quote (Ed J @ May 14 2012,05:52)

Hi Mike,

I believe we all preexisted.
But Jesus was never an Angel,
as Hebrews 2:5 clearly illustrates.

Any particular points you want addressed?

God bless
Ed J

Ed what you are saying here is Jesus was never a messenger.
Even Malachi was a messenger Ed, but apparently Jesus was not according to you.

Hi T8,

That's not what I'm talking about.
I'm saying Heb.2:5 clearly states
Jesus wasn't a preexistent Angel.
“We” are all messengers of YHVH.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

May 16, 2012 at 7:31 pm#298376

Participant

Hi Ed
You say
“We” are all messengers of YHVH.”

Any scriptures or did you derive this idea?

May 16, 2012 at 7:38 pm#298377

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ May 17 2012,05:31)

Quote (t8 @ May 16 2012,22:11)

Quote (Ed J @ May 14 2012,05:52)

Hi Mike,

I believe we all preexisted.
But Jesus was never an Angel,
as Hebrews 2:5 clearly illustrates.

Any particular points you want addressed?

God bless
Ed J

Ed what you are saying here is Jesus was never a messenger.
Even Malachi was a messenger Ed, but apparently Jesus was not according to you.

Hi T8,

That's not what I'm talking about.
I'm saying Heb.2:5 clearly states
Jesus wasn't a preexistent Angel.
“We” are all messengers of YHVH.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

EDJ

if this would be true all would have the same message right ?

May 16, 2012 at 7:57 pm#298378

Participant

Hi t,
Yes.
The gospel message has not changed since Peter expounded it at PENTECOST.
But folks on the internet are frantically preaching other gospels and making their proselytes more fit for the fire than they were originally.

May 16, 2012 at 10:03 pm#298396

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 17 2012,13:57)

you mean like the catholic did for almost 1700 years ?

tell me can someone receive a good conscience from God without being baptized

and if not then it is baptism in water that saves right
and not all are called to be with Christ and so becoming his brother ,

some are called but will live on earth so they will not see Christ and his father the way they really are ,

only 144k are the total of redeemed

even the message is the same their works is not

May 16, 2012 at 10:06 pm#298397

Participant

Hi t,
Do we question the ways of God?
Simon Magus showed that baptism without repentance saves nobody

May 16, 2012 at 10:11 pm#298399

Blocked

Quote (terraricca @ May 16 2012,13:38)

Quote (Ed J @ May 17 2012,05:31)

“We” are all messengers of YHVH.

EDJ

if this would be true all would have the same message right ?

May 16, 2012 at 10:22 pm#298402

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ May 17 2012,01:31)

Quote (t8 @ May 16 2012,22:11)

Quote (Ed J @ May 14 2012,05:52)

Hi Mike,

I believe we all preexisted.
But Jesus was never an Angel,
as Hebrews 2:5 clearly illustrates.

Any particular points you want addressed?

God bless
Ed J

Ed what you are saying here is Jesus was never a messenger.
Even Malachi was a messenger Ed, but apparently Jesus was not according to you.

Hi T8,

That's not what I'm talking about.
I'm saying Heb.2:5 clearly states
Jesus wasn't a preexistent Angel.
“We” are all messengers of YHVH.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Edj.

Perhaps you are not aware that the word for messenger and angel is the same word.

It is translators who determine which word to use, either angel/messenger.

In Hebrew the word is 'mal'ak (mal-awk)' and in Greek it is 'aggelos (ang'-el-os)'.

The Hebrew and Greek words are used of heavenly beings as well as men.

So when people say that Jesus or John are not angels, that is simply not correct. Scripture proves such a statement is plain wrong. I agree that it offends those who's minds are made up on the matter, but I don't care about that.

May 16, 2012 at 11:14 pm#298409

Blocked

Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ May 15 2012,18:51)

The Complete Bible, By Smith and Goodspeed.
“For a child is born to us; and the government will be upon his shoulders; and his name will be called 'Wonderful counselor is God almighty, Father forever, Prince of peace.'”

Frank,

It is interesting how the LXX renders Is 9:6……….

6 For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.

This is more akin to the translations you listed in your post. I also notice that “everlasting father” is no where to be found in the Greek translation. Nor is there a mention of “god” at all.

What's going on here? Surely the Hebrew texts have the word “father” and “god” in 9:6, right? How could the LXX translators end up with such a different translation that doesn't even use all the words from the Hebrew text?

I will concede that you have as much right to your version as I have to mine, and I will try to refrain from using Is 9:6 as proof of Jesus being a called a god.

Thanks for the information.

May 17, 2012 at 4:09 am#298440

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 17 2012,16:06)

Hi t,
Do we question the ways of God?
Simon Magus showed that baptism without repentance saves nobody

if not how do you learn anything ?

May 17, 2012 at 4:12 am#298444

Participant

who is this fellow Simon Magus ??

May 17, 2012 at 4:33 am#298449