Preexistence

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
I have not claimed that the Word that was with God was the son of God.
God conferring His Word on Jesus made Jesus the Christ , the Son of God.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Creation is by God through His Spirit.
ps 104
“You send forth Your Spirit, they are created and You renew the face of the earth”

The Word was God .
The Word is of the Spirit.

“I proceeded forth AND have come from God”Jn8

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 12 2012,21:30)

Hi MB, I have not claimed that the Word that was with God was the son of God. God conferring His Word on Jesus made Jesus the Christ , the Son of God.

Well right there is one major CONTRADICTION to scripture, Nick……….yet you KEEP ON claiming it anyway.

According to scriptures, Jesus was BORN the Christ of God, and so your understanding is already flawed from the word go.

And according to Hebrews 1:2, the worlds were created through “THE SON OF GOD”.  That cannot be a true statement (and scripture cannot be broken) if “the Son of God” didn't exist until Jesus was baptized by John.  OR………………..unless the “spirit of the anointing” was the “Son of God” before the worlds were created through him.

And since you think Heb 1:2 speaks of “the spirit of the anointing” before it “merged” with the human being Jesus of Nazareth, then you have no choice but to be claiming that “the spirit of the anointing” was the SON OF GOD before the worlds were created through him.

Nick, I am REASONING with you from the scriptures, just as Paul did in his day.  Why does your understanding render many scriptures either null or nonsensical?

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 13 2012,18:57)

i T, When did you come to God in a pure heart?

N

is my pure heart ,will help you

It is you ,all of us that have to go to God with a pure heart ,then HE can fill it with HIS spirit ,

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ May 13 2012,20:58)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 13 2012,06:57) i T, When did you come to God in a pure heart? Nick; You do not come to God with a pure heart;  The Spirit purifies it.

K

you never could understand the spirit of truth ,so you still believe that you can lay down and have God at your service

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 13 2012,21:30)

Hi MB, I have not claimed that the Word that was with God was the son of God. God conferring His Word on Jesus made Jesus the Christ , the Son of God.

N

you really should read more in the scriptures ,and stop listening to religion,

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 13 2012,21:34)

Hi MB, Creation is by God through His Spirit. ps 104 “You send forth Your Spirit, they are created and You renew the face of the earth” The Word was God . The Word is of the Spirit. “I proceeded forth AND have come from God”Jn8

N

ps 104
“You send forth Your( WILL) Spirit, they are created and You renew the face of the earth”

was not the temple of Solomon build according to Gods WILL and words ??????? YES

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
If you understood the anointing you would be able to align the scriptures and not be walking in darkness
and you would understand how the worlds were created through Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ May 12 2012,18:22)

Mike the problem is that they want to see THE WORD OF GOD ” has the WORDS of God………

Correct Pierre.  They try hard to use the many mentions of the word of God (literally “words of God”) as a way to confuse the fact that Jesus is the Word of God in a completely different sense – as God's main spokesman.  But their mock confusion becomes transparent the minute they admit that “the Word of God” in Rev 19:13 refers to the PERSON Jesus Christ.

Once they do that, then it becomes clear to us that they CAN actually understand the difference between words that God has spoken through various vessels, and the PERSON Jesus Christ, who has as one of his many names, “the Word of God”.

And once we know that they CAN understand the difference, it is not hard for us to recognize the mock confusion they display towards John 1 – a confusion they pretend to have simply because they don't WANT to understand that the Word of God in John 1 is the very same Word of God from Rev 19.

You and I both know that they understand the concept and our understanding clearly enough.  But they don't WANT that to be “their Jesus”, and so they play confusion games and pretend NOT to understand what we already know they DO understand.

Quote (terraricca @ May 12 2012,18:22)

a person has to come to God in a pure heart ,means without self or other influence,so that it is only nourished by the spirit of Gods words,

How true.  I believe Kerwin is right that none of us have the capability to come to God with a heart that is already pure, but I understand what you are saying.  We must allow the word of God (not to be confused with God's spokesman, “the Word of God”) to speak to us and guide us from a point of no pre-conceived notions and no outside influences.  Because if we start looking into what the scriptures teach AFTER we've already “learned” from other sources what they teach, then we can easily twist or add to many scriptures and FORCE them to teach what we've already expected that they will teach.

The best way to see this theory in action is to ask someone how many gods are mentioned in the scriptures.  You'll notice that you and I are among the very few who actually believe the scriptures on this subject instead of the general consensus that we've all grown up with.  

So to anyone out there that believes there is literally only one god in existence, you are living proof of what can happen when one lets their pre-conceived notions and popular theory overrule what the scriptures actually teach.

Pierre, thanks for that good post, and your undying support of the truth of God's word (again, not to be confused with God's spokesman, “the Word of God”).  

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 12 2012,22:19)

Hi MB, If you understood the anointing you would be able to align the scriptures and not be walking in darkness and you would understand how the worlds were created through Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

The scriptures align perfectly for me, Nick. In fact, I DARE you to show me one single scripture that DOESN'T align with a pre-existent Jesus. Oh, that's right………….I've already made that challenge to all of you and got nothing in return.

YOUR understanding, on the other hand, causes you to ADD TO and CONTRADICT many scriptures.

Case in point: The worlds could not have been created through “the Son of God” unless “the Son of God” existed BEFORE the worlds were created through him.

See how YOUR understanding is causing Heb 1:2 to be a LIE? Why would you place your own “concept that came to you” above God's word?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB.
You say
“Case in point: The worlds could not have been created through “the Son of God” unless “the Son of God” existed BEFORE the worlds were created through him.”

Is that what reason tells you?
Reason is the pathetic refuge of carnal men.
Go beyond REASON and seek the spiritual understanding of the Word.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Which ANGEL was God speaking about that was made the SON OF GOD or do you now admit you were wrong to say Jesus was an angel?

Heb 1 3-4?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Paul indeed reasoned with the Jews that Jesus, the one they had killed, was the Christ.
It was proveable in retrospect if they would believe.
Acts 18:28
for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, demonstrating by the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ May 13 2012,10:03)

Quote (kerwin @ May 13 2012,20:58) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 13 2012,06:57) i T, When did you come to God in a pure heart? Nick; You do not come to God with a pure heart;  The Spirit purifies it. K you never could understand the spirit of truth ,so you still believe that you can lay down and have God at your service

T;

It is written:

Jeremiah 31:33
King James Version (KJV)

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

You cannot have a pure heart before God writes his Word on your heart.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 13 2012,18:35)

Reason is the pathetic refuge of carnal men.

Is reason really a bad thing.

First off, with reason, we are able to determine that something is wrong with things like the Trinity Doctrine and many other things. Of course you need more than reason to determine the truth of a matter, but reason is not a bad thing. It is given to us by God.

Case in hand.

Isaiah 1:18
Come now, and let US REASON TOGETHER, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 13 2012,18:41)

Which ANGEL was God speaking about that was made the SON OF GOD or do you now admit you were wrong to say Jesus was an angel?

Nick I beleive you are wrong on this.

Here is why:

“Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.”

John the Baptist is called a messenger/angel.

“Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me”
Confirmed here.

Matthew 11:10
“For this is he, of whom it is WRITTEN, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.”

Jesus Christ is also called the angel/messenger in the second part of the verse.

Malachi 3:1
“…and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts

Malachi speaks of the coming of the Messenger of the covenant. That Messenger is Christ. The word “messenger” is the same word which is so often translated in the Old Testament by the word “angel.” Angels are messengers of God. That Christ is called the “Messenger” or “Angel” of the covenant could well identify him as “the Angel of the LORD”.

Why did Jesus say, “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me”.

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 13 2012,02:23)

Quote (Ed J @ May 10 2012,21:36) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 11 2012,13:35) Actually Nick, It is required that we use our God-given reason to understand the scriptures.  Nothing I have said has “overruled” any actual scripture – just your nonsensical interpretation of them. Were you going to actually address the Phil 2 points from the last page?    Because I was waiting for you to address those before doing the same thing with Hebrews 1. Hi Mike, In support of  “your  'a god'  John 1:1 theory”, don't you  attempt to  overrule Isa 44:8? “ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.” (Isa 44:8) God bless Ed J Ed, when you claim that Is 44:8 teaches that there is LITERALLY only one god in existence, don't YOU attempt to overrule MANY scriptures, such as 1 Cor 8:5?

Hi Mike, nope!  

Does 1Cor 8:6 overrule 1Cor 8:5?   MANY scriptures?

But to us there is but one God, the Father,
of whom are all things, and we in him;” (1 Corinthians 8:6)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 13 2012,02:32)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 10 2012,21:48) Hi MB, As you suggest Heb 1 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Nick, Look at verse 2.  Through whom did God make the worlds?

Hi Mike,

God's HolySpirit did because of (or though) Jesus' crucifixion. (see Rev.13:8)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ May 13 2012,09:11)

Quote (Ed J @ May 13 2012,02:30) Quote (terraricca @ May 12 2012,10:45) Quote (Ed J @ May 12 2012,01:16) Hi Pierre, Col.1:16 is about YHVH, not Jesus. God bless Ed J ed Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, see and learn Paul talks about Christ only in verse 19 he talk about God PIERRE “The subject” starts in verse 12. God bless Ed J edj are you now going to quote other scriptures you already give a false answer ,you stuck and are not able to see your own mistake so what about 16

PIERRE,

I told you already: verse 16 is about the subject starting back in verse 12.

Verse 16: “all things were created by him, and for him (Rev.4:11)”
is about the subject verse 12: “Giving thanks unto the Father”.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 13 2012,10:25)

Quote (terraricca @ May 12 2012,16:07) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 13 2012,16:02) Hi MB, Putting on a limp to show you have been personally attacked when it is your approach to grasping scripture that is shown to be faulty will not wash. yap,yap     no scriptures ? Pierre, It is truly sad that someone like Nick, who truly loves God and has a vast knowledge of scripture would allow a “concept that came to him” (his own words) to take precedence over those scriptures. He has convinced himself that the Word who was God Himself, became a servant spirit (and son ) of the God he used to be, and then as that servant spirit he merged with the human being Jesus to form yet another son of God. I believe that I have sufficiently reasoned from the scriptures themselves that this understanding simply cannot be the truth of the matter – because this understanding actually CONTRADICTS many clearly worded scriptures. The fact is that he now KNOWS this to be the case, and that is why his only responses are silly ad hominems. Nick, through whom did God make the worlds – according to Hebrews 1:2?

Hi Mike,

Your rudimentary logic is irrelevant to what scripture teaches!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

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