Preexistence

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ May 12 2012,10:45)

Quote (Ed J @ May 12 2012,01:16) Hi Pierre, Col.1:16 is about YHVH, not Jesus. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org ed Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, see and learn Paul talks about Christ only in verse 19 he talk about God

PIERRE

“The subject” starts in verse 12.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 10 2012,20:51)

Christ Jesus, the man made the Son of God by being anointed with the Spirit and thus one with the Word…….

John 1:14 says the Word BECAME flesh.  It does NOT say the Word came to dwell WITHIN someone who was already flesh – no matter how bad you WANT it to say that.

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 10 2012,20:51)

……..can now be aptly said to have been with God, been God and existed in the form of God.

So we can now aptly say that the human being, Jesus from Nazareth, existed in the form of God before being made into the likeness of a human being?    Because the spirit spoke through the regular old human being Jesus, we can say that JESUS was with God in the beginning?    Are you sure?

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 10 2012,20:51)

That emptied and servant Spirit filled the man Jesus at the Jordan.

So it was the Spirit that emptied itself?  Of what?  Also, how does something that WAS God Almighty become a servant Spirit OF God Almighty?  

Nick, does God change?  Can something that was God become something that is no longer God, but a servant of God?  Show me some scriptures that say this is possible.

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 10 2012,20:51)

Jesus already had the form of a man so it does not apply to the human vessel.

And if it was not Jesus himself who “became flesh” by being “made in the likeness of a human being”, and the scripture doesn't say the spirit came to be IN someone who was already flesh, then WHO did the spirit become flesh as?

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 10 2012,20:51)

Christ Jesus died and his human spirit left the vessel. The Spirit given him cannot die, abided in him and raised him.

And this is the bottom line, Nick.  Because, according to Phil 2:5-8, whoever died on a tree is the SAME ONE who was existing in the form of God.  If the Spirit did not die on a stake, then the Spirit is NOT who was existing in the form of God before being made into the likeness of a human being.

Also, “being made into the likeness of a human being” does not fit with your understanding that the Spirit dwelled WITHIN someone who already was a human being.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ May 10 2012,21:36)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 11 2012,13:35) Actually Nick, It is required that we use our God-given reason to understand the scriptures.  Nothing I have said has “overruled” any actual scripture – just your nonsensical interpretation of them. Were you going to actually address the Phil 2 points from the last page?    Because I was waiting for you to address those before doing the same thing with Hebrews 1. Hi Mike, In support of  “your  'a god'  John 1:1 theory”, don't you  attempt to  overrule Isa 44:8? “ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.” (Isa 44:8) God bless Ed J

Ed, when you claim that Is 44:8 teaches that there is LITERALLY only one god in existence, don't YOU attempt to overrule MANY scriptures, such as 1 Cor 8:5?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 10 2012,21:48)

Hi MB, As you suggest Heb 1 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Nick,

Look at verse 2. Through whom did God make the worlds?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 10 2012,21:56)

So all the angels are to worship the Son.

This thread is about whether or not Jesus preexisted. We have discussed whether or not Jesus is an angel of his God in other threads already.

Try not to divert away from the subject of the thread – and of our current discussion.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
If you want scripture to speak miketongue you will always be disappointed

[mikeboll64]

Good answer, Nick.    Hit me up when you're man enough to stand and SCRIPTURALLY defend the asinine things you claim, okay?

And instead of you using this post of mine as an “escape route” that enables you to divert to more ad hominems – why not try to actually address the many points I've made on this page?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Putting on a limp to show you have been personally attacked when it is your approach to grasping scripture that is shown to be faulty will not wash.

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 13 2012,16:02)

Hi MB, Putting on a limp to show you have been personally attacked when it is your approach to grasping scripture that is shown to be faulty will not wash.

yap,yap no scriptures ?

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ May 13 2012,02:30)

Quote (terraricca @ May 12 2012,10:45) Quote (Ed J @ May 12 2012,01:16) Hi Pierre, Col.1:16 is about YHVH, not Jesus. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org ed Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, see and learn Paul talks about Christ only in verse 19 he talk about God PIERRE “The subject” starts in verse 12. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

are you now going to quote other scriptures

you already give a false answer ,you stuck and are not able to see your own mistake

so what about 16

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ May 12 2012,16:07)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 13 2012,16:02) Hi MB, Putting on a limp to show you have been personally attacked when it is your approach to grasping scripture that is shown to be faulty will not wash. yap,yap     no scriptures ?

Pierre,

It is truly sad that someone like Nick, who truly loves God and has a vast knowledge of scripture would allow a “concept that came to him” (his own words) to take precedence over those scriptures.

He has convinced himself that the Word who was God Himself, became a servant spirit (and son ) of the God he used to be, and then as that servant spirit he merged with the human being Jesus to form yet another son of God.

I believe that I have sufficiently reasoned from the scriptures themselves that this understanding simply cannot be the truth of the matter – because this understanding actually CONTRADICTS many clearly worded scriptures.

The fact is that he now KNOWS this to be the case, and that is why his only responses are silly ad hominems.

Nick, through whom did God make the worlds – according to Hebrews 1:2?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Reason will never take you far into the spiritual.

The Spiritof Christ, the Word, now seen as Jesus Christ the monogenes Son of God.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Heb 1 again

To which ANGEL did God say

“Thou art My Son..”

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Have no concepts yet come to you?
Reason will only repeat itself

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Speaking of the Spirit of prophecy from God that manifested in those prophets
can you say that Spirit was God?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Take for example Jer 44
44
“The word that came to Jeremiah for all the Jews living in the land of Egypt, those who were living in Migdol, Tahpanhes, Memphis, and the land of Pathros, saying, 2 “Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, ‘You yourselves have seen all the calamity that I have brought on Jerusalem and all the cities of Judah; and behold, this day they are in ruins and no one lives in them, 3 because of their wickedness which they committed so as to provoke Me to anger by continuing to burn [a]sacrifices and to serve other gods whom they had not known, neither they, you, nor your fathers. 4 Yet I sent you all My servants the prophets, again and again, saying, “Oh, do not do this abominable thing which I hate.” 5 But they did not listen or incline their ears to turn from their wickedness, so as not to burn [c]sacrifices to other gods. 6 Therefore My wrath and My anger were poured out and burned in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem, so they have become a ruin and a desolation as it is this day. 7 Now then thus says the Lord God of hosts, the God of Israel, “Why are you doing great harm to yourselves, so as to cut off from you man and woman, child and infant, from among Judah, leaving yourselves without remnant, 8 provoking Me to anger with the works of your hands, burning [d]sacrifices to other gods in the land of Egypt, where you are entering to reside, so that you might be cut off and become a curse and a reproach among all the nations of the earth? 9 Have you forgotten the wickedness of your fathers, the wickedness of the kings of Judah, and the wickedness of their wives, your own wickedness, and the wickedness of your wives, which they committed in the land of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? 10 But they have not become [e]contrite even to this day, nor have they feared nor walked in My law or My statutes, which I have set before you and before your fathers.”’

11 “Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, ‘Behold, I am going to set My face against you for [f]woe, even to cut off all Judah. 12 And I will take away the remnant of Judah who have set their [g]mind on entering the land of Egypt to reside there, and they will all [h] meet their end in the land of Egypt; they will fall by the sword and meet their end by famine. Both small and great will die by the sword and famine; and they will become a curse, an object of horror, an imprecation and a reproach. 13 And I will punish those who live in the land of Egypt, as I have punished Jerusalem, with the sword, with famine and with pestilence. 14 So there will be no refugees or survivors for the remnant of Judah who have entered the land of Egypt to reside there and then to return to the land of Judah, to which they are longing to return and live; for none will return except a few refugees.”

WAS THIS GOD IN JEREMIAH speaking?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
What of Is 44
“But now listen, O Jacob, My servant,
And Israel, whom I have chosen:
2 Thus says the Lord who made you
And formed you from the womb, who will help you,
‘ Do not fear, O Jacob My servant;
And you Jeshurun whom I have chosen.
3 ‘For I will pour out water on [a]the thirsty land
And streams on the dry ground;
I will pour out My Spirit on your offspring
And My blessing on your descendants;
4 And they will spring up among the grass
Like poplars by streams of water.’
5 “This one will say, ‘I am the Lord’s’;
And that one [c]will call on the name of Jacob;
And another will write [d]on his hand, ‘Belonging to the Lord,’
And will name Israel’s name with honor.
6 “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:

‘I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.
7 ‘Who is like Me? Let him proclaim and declare it;
Yes, let him recount it to Me in order,
[e]From the time that I established the ancient [f]nation.
And let them declare to them the things that are coming
And the events that are going to take place.
8 ‘Do not tremble and do not be afraid;
Have I not long since announced it to you and declared it?
And you are My witnesses.
Is there any God besides Me,
Or is there any other Rock?
I know of none.’”

WAS THIS THE WORDS OF GOD or just Isaiah?

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 13 2012,17:25)

Quote (terraricca @ May 12 2012,16:07) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 13 2012,16:02) Hi MB, Putting on a limp to show you have been personally attacked when it is your approach to grasping scripture that is shown to be faulty will not wash. yap,yap     no scriptures ? Pierre, It is truly sad that someone like Nick, who truly loves God and has a vast knowledge of scripture would allow a “concept that came to him” (his own words) to take precedence over those scriptures. He has convinced himself that the Word who was God Himself, became a servant spirit (and son ) of the God he used to be, and then as that servant spirit he merged with the human being Jesus to form yet another son of God. I believe that I have sufficiently reasoned from the scriptures themselves that this understanding simply cannot be the truth of the matter – because this understanding actually CONTRADICTS many clearly worded scriptures. The fact is that he now KNOWS this to be the case, and that is why his only responses are silly ad hominems. Nick, through whom did God make the worlds – according to Hebrews 1:2?

Mike

the problem is that they want to see THE WORD OF GOD ” has the WORDS of God,and so not see that the spokes being to all creation has that very name ,and is also called THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD ,

BUT THIS COMES BECAUSE THE INFLUENCE OF RELIGION NOT FROM SCRIPTURES ,

a person has to come to God in a pure heart ,means without self or other influence,so that it is only nourished by the spirit of Gods words,

failing to do that ,the truth will never be yours.

[NickHassan]

i T,
When did you come to God in a pure heart?

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 13 2012,06:57)

i T, When did you come to God in a pure heart?

Nick;

You do not come to God with a pure heart; The Spirit purifies it.

[Author]

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