Preexistence

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 10 2012,19:25)

Hi MB, These lesser gods are angels. Was your lesser god an angel?

Was – and still is an angel of his God. But why do you try to divert away from my Phil 2 points?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 10 2012,19:25)

Hi MB, Is this PERSON word used in scripture much or just in theology?

Those who have personalities (and wills of their own) are persons. This is just common sense. I know you often try to get me and Kerwin and others here to refrain from using their God-given common sense and reasoning abilities because when we do use those things, your doctrine adds up to a bunch of nonsensical mish-mash.

But Paul REASONED with the Jews in many synagogues, trying to show them from scripture that Jesus was the Son of God and the Messiah they had been waiting for.

But again, why do you attempt to make mundane points against me, when there are solid points you should be responding to? More diversions?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 10 2012,19:26)

Hi MB, The WORD was God, not a lesser god or an angel

Nope. The Word was WITH God, and therefore could not have possibly BEEN the very God he was WITH.

Also, something that WAS God cannot become someone who ISN'T God.

See Nick? If you'd only allow yourself to use your God-given reasoning abilities, you'd be able to clearly see these things.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
No mention of any angel called Jesus.
Other important angelic beings like Michael and Gabriel appear often enough but none called Jesus

[NickHassan]

Hi MB
PERSONS then can be added because commonsense rules OK?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
You say
“Nope. The Word was WITH God, and therefore could not have possibly BEEN the very God he was WITH.

Also, something that WAS God cannot become someone who ISN'T God.

See Nick? If you'd only allow yourself to use your God-given reasoning abilities, you'd be able to clearly see these things.”

So it is oK to overrule scripture if your sense of REASON disagrees?
Are you greater than the Author?

[mikeboll64]

Actually Nick,

It is required that we use our God-given reason to understand the scriptures. Nothing I have said has “overruled” any actual scripture – just your nonsensical interpretation of them.

Were you going to actually address the Phil 2 points from the last page? Because I was waiting for you to address those before doing the same thing with Hebrews 1.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
It might help you to hear the Spirit in others if the word NONSENSE was not immediately spoken.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
You offer

“5. “Christ JESUS” implies that Paul is speaking about the PERSON, Jesus, the anointed one of God.

6. Who was existing in the form of God? (The same Christ JESUS who was mentioned in verse 5, right?)

7. Who took on the form of a servant and was made in human likeness? (Was “the spirit of the anointing” actually made INTO a human being, Nick?)

8. Who was found in appearance as a human being? (The “spirit of the anointing”?)
Who humbled himself to the point of death on a cross? (The “spirit of the anointing”?)

9. Whom did God exalt, and to whom did He give the name above all other names?

Christ Jesus, the man made the Son of God by being anointed with the Spirit and thus one with the Word, can now be aptly said to have been with God, been God and existed in the form of God.

That emptied and servant Spirit filled the man Jesus at the Jordan. Jesus already had the form of a man so it does not apply to the human vessel. From that moment of anointing the WORD was made flesh and dwelt among us.

Christ Jesus died and his human spirit left the vessel. The Spirit given him cannot die, abided in him and raised him.

What is your hope?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
You seem to trip over what you think is mundane as you blunder into speculation

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 11 2012,13:35)

Actually Nick, It is required that we use our God-given reason to understand the scriptures.  Nothing I have said has “overruled” any actual scripture – just your nonsensical interpretation of them. Were you going to actually address the Phil 2 points from the last page?    Because I was waiting for you to address those before doing the same thing with Hebrews 1.

Hi Mike,

In support of  “your  'a god'  John 1:1 theory”,
don't you  attempt to  overrule Isa 44:8?

“ye are even my witnesses.
Is there a God beside me? yea,
there is no God; I know not any.” (Isa 44:8)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
As you suggest
Heb 1
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the WORD of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son??”

So which ANGEL was begotten as a son?
One called Jesus??

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,

Heb 16 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?”

So all the angels are to worship the Son. None of them were ever appointed to sit at the right hand of God. The Son who inherited the glory of the WORD was never an angel.

[Ed J]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 11 2012,14:56)

Hi MB, The Son who inherited the glory of the WORD was never an angel.

Hi Nick,

I agree.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 11 2012,20:51)

Hi MB, You offer “5.  “Christ JESUS” implies that Paul is speaking about the PERSON, Jesus, the anointed one of God. 6.  Who was existing in the form of God?  (The same Christ JESUS who was mentioned in verse 5, right?) 7.  Who took on the form of a servant and was made in human likeness?  (Was “the spirit of the anointing” actually made INTO a human being, Nick?) 8.  Who was found in appearance as a human being?  (The “spirit of the anointing”?) Who humbled himself to the point of death on a cross?  (The “spirit of the anointing”?) 9. Whom did God exalt, and to whom did He give the name above all other names? Christ Jesus, the man made the Son of God by being anointed with the Spirit and thus one with the Word, can now be aptly said to have been with God, been God and existed in the form of God. That emptied and servant Spirit filled the man Jesus at the Jordan. Jesus already had the form of a man so it does not apply to the human vessel. From that moment of anointing the WORD was made flesh and dwelt among us. Christ Jesus died and his human spirit left the vessel. The Spirit given him cannot die, abided in him and raised him. What is your hope?

N

What about Colossians 1:14-20

Jesus was the first of creation all things being created through him

[Ed J]

Hi Pierre,

Col.1:16 is about YHVH, not Jesus.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Pastry]

Quote (Ed J @ May 09 2012,16:21)

Quote (Pastry @ May 09 2012,04:56) Ed, The Holy Spirit does not have a rob on dipped in blood, only Jesus does…Irene Hi Irene, “vesture” is clothing. I bet you've never done a comparative study between Rev.19 and Isaiah 63, have YOU Irene? “And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.” (Rev 19:13) “and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.” (Isaiah 63:3)                       “The Word” is the “HolySpirit”!                             And “HolySpirit” is HE and I !                                   Rev. 19:13 He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood. Isaiah 63:3 Their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments Revelation 19:15 He treadeth the winepress Isaiah 63:3 I have trodden the winepress alone Rev.19:13 His name is called The Word of God. Isaiah 63:11 He that put His HolySpirit within                      But they rebelled, and vexed                      his HolySpirit: therefore he                      was turned to be their enemy,                      and he fought against them. Isaiah 63:10 I will tread down the people in mine anger             …and I will bring down their strength to the earth. Revelation 19:15 Out of His mouth goeth (The Word) a sharp sword,                               that with it He should smite the nations. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed! I went through this with you before…..Isaiah is a prophecy
about many things….
The Holy Spirit is of God, it never can and would become flesh or was the only begotten of the Father, while Jesus is……
And that is all I am going to say to you….
YOU need to study what and what not God”s Holy Spirit is….
Peace Irene

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ May 12 2012,01:16)

Hi Pierre, Col.1:16 is about YHVH, not Jesus. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

ed

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,

see and learn Paul talks about Christ only in verse 19 he talk about God

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
The Spirit of Christ Jesus did these things

[Ed J]

Quote (Pastry @ May 12 2012,10:23)

Quote (Ed J @ May 09 2012,16:21) Quote (Pastry @ May 09 2012,04:56) Ed, The Holy Spirit does not have a rob on dipped in blood, only Jesus does…Irene Hi Irene, “vesture” is clothing. I bet you've never done a comparative study between Rev.19 and Isaiah 63, have YOU Irene? “And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.” (Rev 19:13) “and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.” (Isaiah 63:3)                       “The Word” is the “HolySpirit”!                             And “HolySpirit” is HE and I !                                   Rev. 19:13 He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood. Isaiah 63:3 Their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments Revelation 19:15 He treadeth the winepress Isaiah 63:3 I have trodden the winepress alone Rev.19:13 His name is called The Word of God. Isaiah 63:11 He that put His HolySpirit within                      But they rebelled, and vexed                      his HolySpirit: therefore he                      was turned to be their enemy,                      and he fought against them. Isaiah 63:10 I will tread down the people in mine anger             …and I will bring down their strength to the earth. Revelation 19:15 Out of His mouth goeth (The Word) a sharp sword,                               that with it He should smite the nations. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed!  I went through this with you before…..Isaiah is a prophecy about many things…. The Holy Spirit is of God, it never can and would become flesh or was the only begotten of the Father, while Jesus is…… And that is all I am going to say to you…. YOU need to study what and what not God”s Holy Spirit is…. Peace Irene

Hi Irene,

I have, but I see that you have missed a few points.
It's too bad that you're unwilling to discuss the matter.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

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